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So we played our first game of N17 a few days ago and it was a blast. The game was a 4 player last-gang-standing between goliath, escher, orlocks and legacy delaque. Still, a few questions came up.

1) The rules say something about models on the ground and in cover beeing untargetable. There is also an action that lets you make a half move and go to ground afterwards. Does that mean pinned as well as heavily wounded, or only pinned? And is pinned the same thing as "on the ground"? Also if I take this specific action, do I have to use an action to get up the next time I activate this fighter?

2) In the game there were 3 guys with unwieldy shooting weapons (1 heavy bolter + 2 heavy stubbers). The way we understood is that you can not change your facing when firing that weapons, because its a double action and you can only change facing when the action specifically tells you to. The escher champion had a skill which lets her get up from pinned on an initiative test, which not only let her fire every round but also change her facing (the get up action lets you choose your facing). Also the delaque champion did never get to fire his weapon because he was infiniteley pinned ;-) . Did we do that right?

3) Nobody has gotten enough XP to level up, but we were wondering if the free skill some guys get (Leaders+Champions) makes the first advancement you buy them +2 points more expensive, of it its at +0, because its part of their profile.

4) One of my gangers got captured and my opponent decided to let him go, but keep his autogun and mesh armor (escher only have flak-armour). What happens to the cost of my ganger now? The gangers base cost is 55, and the come with mesh. Do i just decuct the cost of the mesh armour? Mesh is 15 points on my list, that would lover the cost of that model to 40. sounds a bit low for me...

Thanks in advance ;-)

Mickmann wrote:
So we played our first game of N17 a few days ago and it was a blast. The game was a 4 player last-gang-standing between goliath, escher, orlocks and legacy delaque. Still, a few questions came up.

1) The rules say something about models on the ground and in cover beeing untargetable. There is also an action that lets you make a half move and go to ground afterwards. Does that mean pinned as well as heavily wounded, or only pinned? And is pinned the same thing as "on the ground"? Also if I take this specific action, do I have to use an action to get up the next time I activate this fighter?

It pins your fighter, does not wound them. "on the ground" is both Pinned and Seriously Injured. Either a Seriously Injured or a Pinned fighter is considered "on the ground". You do have to use an action to get up.

2) In the game there were 3 guys with unwieldy shooting weapons (1 heavy bolter + 2 heavy stubbers). The way we understood is that you can not change your facing when firing that weapons, because its a double action and you can only change facing when the action specifically tells you to. The escher champion had a skill which lets her get up from pinned on an initiative test, which not only let her fire every round but also change her facing (the get up action lets you choose your facing). Also the delaque champion did never get to fire his weapon because he was infiniteley pinned ;-) . Did we do that right?

Yep. Spring Up is a great skill. You can use the "True Grit" skill in the ferocity tree to also keep your heavy weapon up.

3) Nobody has gotten enough XP to level up, but we were wondering if the free skill some guys get (Leaders+Champions) makes the first advancement you buy them +2 points more expensive, of it its at +0, because its part of their profile.

Nope.

4) One of my gangers got captured and my opponent decided to let him go, but keep his autogun and mesh armor (escher only have flak-armour). What happens to the cost of my ganger now? The gangers base cost is 55, and the come with mesh. Do i just decuct the cost of the mesh armour? Mesh is 15 points on my list, that would lover the cost of that model to 40. sounds a bit low for me...

Your opponent can't keep your gear. The ganger comes back with gear.

Thanks in advance ;-)

Thanks for the answers.

About 4) - My opponent cant keep my gear, but what happens if I buy a better armor (say carapace) for my boss. Can I stash the mesh armor when I get better armor, and do I lower the rating of that fighter by the cost of the mesh armor (of course the rating will still go up as the newer armour would be more expensive)?

A few notes:

1) If you want to stand up, you must use an action (unless you have the skill). But you can also choose to stay down, for example using blind fire.

3) XP tax has been fixed in GW4, I would say large parts of GW1 is no longer valid. The original Turf War campaign in GW1 had one page saying the XP tax applied to the initial skill, while another page saying the opposite (inconsistency is the only consistency in N17).

Instead of using this inferior version (which motivates spam of the best characteristics: Toughness, BS), you should instead use the new version from the Dominion campaign: Only apply the XP tax to characteristic duplicate increases. So +1 Toughness is normal price, but the subsequent +1 Toughness has additional cost.

4) You can make any agreement of how the trade is made. Trading the captive for equipment, armour, even territories. Any player can refuse the deal.

Unfortunately the game doesn't specify changes to armour and cost, so you have to figure this out by yourself. The game is very much in earl-access mode.

Mickmann wrote:
Thanks for the answers.

About 4) - My opponent cant keep my gear, but what happens if I buy a better armor (say carapace) for my boss. Can I stash the mesh armor when I get better armor, and do I lower the rating of that fighter by the cost of the mesh armor (of course the rating will still go up as the newer armour would be more expensive)?

I'd say yeah, do it that way.

Like Baxx said above: Necromunda is very much a game designed for folks willing to make a call on a rule and just have houserule agreements. I have a very healthy google doc that gets little errata added to it all the time for games with my group. We designed our own system for determining random missions (one table if the gang ratings are roughly equal, one if one gang has over 200 in difference). We also added in a "cost of failure" or additional consequences suffered by opponents who voluntarily surrender a mission, because we had a problem where opponents would always just concede before opponents could achieve the mission goal of any particular scenario (i.e. trying to steal crates, opponent would concede when one team had some crates in hand before they got them into their deployment zone, thus still losing but denying the bonus for the crates). This is tailored for each scenario but mostly its just "opposing team gets to achieve the bonus objective because you ran away and they just do the thing."

the_scotsman wrote:

We also added in a "cost of failure" or additional consequences suffered by opponents who voluntarily surrender a mission, because we had a problem where opponents would always just concede before opponents could achieve the mission goal of any particular scenario (i.e. trying to steal crates, opponent would concede when one team had some crates in hand before they got them into their deployment zone, thus still losing but denying the bonus for the crates). This is tailored for each scenario but mostly its just "opposing team gets to achieve the bonus objective because you ran away and they just do the thing."

This was a huge error in the original scenarios. They have attempted to fix this in the updated version from Leader's accessory pack, but I'm not sure if they fixed it completely or if it's still useful to make houserule corrections.

Thanks to all the answers. I talked to my group and we will use the GW4 advancement rules.

Also we will just assume that if you lose your initial armor for any reason, you just deduct the points for the armor from that gangers rating/cost. Looking at the newest chaos cult list (who dont come with armor equipped), it seems just right.

Also we've already houseruled weapon-swapping. Our houserule says you can freely trade weapons/wargear/armor, but no model will ever give away their last weapon or their armor without a replacement. We will let other players who capture you steal your stuff though.

I guess starting a houserule.doc is a good idea

Mickmann wrote:
Thanks for the answers.

About 4) - My opponent cant keep my gear, but what happens if I buy a better armor (say carapace) for my boss. Can I stash the mesh armor when I get better armor, and do I lower the rating of that fighter by the cost of the mesh armor (of course the rating will still go up as the newer armour would be more expensive)?

Rules as written, you can never remove wargear from a fighter. You can have multiple loadouts if you want (say, have a champion with a flamer and grenades for use in Zone Mortalis, and a heavy stubber for Sector Mechanicum battles), or just choose not to use some of their equipment (like if you upgrade armour; just choose not to wear the old armour). We misread the rules in our campaign and allowed fighters to sell and swap non-weapon wargear, and will likely be house-ruling that restriction away entirely in future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baxx wrote:

3) XP tax has been fixed in GW4, I would say large parts of GW1 is no longer valid. The original Turf War campaign in GW1 had one page saying the XP tax applied to the initial skill, while another page saying the opposite

Can you give me page references? I missed that.

it's also worth clarifying that the Dominion campaign system in GW 4 is an alternative to the Turf War campaign in GW1, not a replacement. If you don't play Escher or Goliath, aren't interested in the Turf War campaign and aren't interested in the scenarios included, you could skip GW1, but the option is there if you want it.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Rules as written, you can never remove wargear from a fighter. You can have multiple loadouts if you want (say, have a champion with a flamer and grenades for use in Zone Mortalis, and a heavy stubber for Sector Mechanicum battles), or just choose not to use some of their equipment (like if you upgrade armour; just choose not to wear the old armour). We misread the rules in our campaign and allowed fighters to sell and swap non-weapon wargear, and will likely be house-ruling that restriction away entirely in future.

I'm not so sure any longer. Lost track of what is written by this point, cause it changes many places. And I believe you can now pretty freely move wargear between any fighters in your gang, at minimum non-Ganger fighters. Moving weapons and wargear between fighters was a great feature in original Necromunda. GW initially trying to remove it was a huge mistake.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Can you give me page references? I missed that.

it's also worth clarifying that the Dominion campaign system in GW 4 is an alternative to the Turf War campaign in GW1, not a replacement. If you don't play Escher or Goliath, aren't interested in the Turf War campaign and aren't interested in the scenarios included, you could skip GW1, but the option is there if you want it.

You would have to look up advancements in GW4, don't have the book at the moment so can't say exactly which page.

The 2 campaigns (Dominion & Turf War) consists of different components. Some of these components are shared (injury, experience ++), some of these components are unique to each individual campaign (pre/post battle sequence, turf, special territory, dominion territory, format of campaign ++).

The XP tax in GW1 was a bug, broken, bad. Same with the Ganger Advancement table. These are much better in Dominion. To save yourself some problem, replace the old bad parts with the good new parts. You're not replacing the campaign by doing so, you're only replacing malfunctioning components.

There's not much value left in GW1. Escher & Goliath has been almost completely replaced by later publications (only fighter stats and costs remain valid). Scenarios are all replaced. I'm not sure if GW intends for Dominion campaign to replace Turf War or not (new Cults v2 are completely broken in Turf War, but should work fine in Dominion). The only unique and fully valid content of GW1 today is the 3d rules. That's not good value if you consider buying now.

So, a fighter cannot pivot on the spot for free during their turn?

Not that I understand it, no.