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So I'm starting to write a quick little story for some kroot mercenaries and I got thinking about their culture. That's when I realised that there really isn't much concrete cannon for how their society works. I think this would be a wonderful opportunity to brainstorm some little pieces of head cannon.

since kroot are depicted as giant birds, I think raptors would be the best frame work. Fallowing the sexual dimorphism of avian species, the men would be more colourful and flashy. Woman would be more drab, but a larger than the males.

Now, I could see their society going two ways:
The first is a strong division of roles. Males would be more nomadic and would quickly leave home to join other bachelor's as a hunting pack. Woman would stay at the 'nest' and be more sedentary. A network of matriarchs that would own territory and maintain cities, maybe even captain warspheres. In this society, mercenaries would be a male oriented role with patriarchal Shapers to lead them.
The second is a weak division of roles. They live purely nomadic lifestyles that demand a flexible division of responsibilities between men and woman. These nomadic tribes are what we see as the packs of mercenaries. Each pack is actually a tribe of extended family members with a matriarchal Shaper at the head.

What are your thoughts and theories? any sources I should look up?

the obvious safe bet would be to write the story from the point of view of an outside observer (maybe a Tau tagging along with the Kroot as a emmissary?) this would cover any mistakes by allowing you to simply use that char's POV to draw assumptions. you can even throw in a deliberate mistake that people who know the lore will catch as a quick and easy way to make people know that "yes this guy may make errors"

BrianDavion wrote:
the obvious safe bet would be to write the story from the point of view of an outside observer (maybe a Tau tagging along with the Kroot as a emmissary?) this would cover any mistakes by allowing you to simply use that char's POV to draw assumptions. you can even throw in a deliberate mistake that people who know the lore will catch as a quick and easy way to make people know that "yes this guy may make errors"

True. Perhaps I could write this from the employers perspective instead. It would make pronouns much easier.

I am in the middle of a similar background story for my warband. I noticed a few things that I am working into the overall background for my army.

Kroot male and female are very similar in appearance. I think this has more to do with their eating of Orks and the evolutionary response that created.

Kroot are only mentioned as warriors. They built Hive cities, but no longer do. They had to have created industry, but no longer is it evident. They are only ever mentioned as warriors.

Kroot have a sense of humor. a gruesome, dark sense of humor, but they clearly find joy in life (and eating the dead!) Again, likely a remnant of the Ork raiders who predated the Kroot as we know them.

Kroot are a fairly new evolution of their species. Krootforms range across every species living on their homeworld. Kroot evolved from non sentient species that ate a bunch of Orks that invaded their planet and BOOM! suddenly they are sentient and even seem able to use psychic powers.

Meanwhile many other species still possesses Kroot-like traits, but based on the other species it consumed or evolved from. So we get Hounds, Krootox and Knarlocs that are evolutionary dead ends. This is by no means a complete list of an entire planets species so I use Earth animals to decide Krootform behaviors.
Ex: Kroot mounts based on the Elk that range north America. Herds of females that tolerate a single massive male and a small number of younger males that sneak in and try to pull females from the herd. Get crazy with it. Seahorse males carry the young after conception until birth, octopus males can tear their arm off and give it to a female. Many terrestrial Krootforms have avian features, but surely not everything has a beak or feathers.

Alien societies could be based on nearly anything due to the rapidly evolving characteristics of a Kroot warband versus a planetary society. Even one planet against another could vary wildly depending on what they have eaten. Obviously the sentient Kroot we know started with Orkish tendencies, but let them eat some Humans, Eldar or even Tau and they might change dramatically.

And writing from a Human or Xenos perspective could give predispositions that misinterpret what the Kroot are doing. I mean they surely are keeping some secrets among themselves. Where are the Warspheres being built? Why do they sneak behind the Taus back and wander the galaxy despite their deep debt to the Tau?

If Kroot are supposed to be like birds, then that means the Kroot we see on the GW website are actually female, since drab colours = female.

So this leads to some interesting conclusions. One, that females in Kroot society are the dominant sex. Second, that GW has been representing genders equally this whole time, with entire units of females from a culture where women obviously hold the reins.

Any bird watcher will tell you, it's the females that are drab and this is because as the primary caregiver to young they need to blend in to their background for safety. This helps ensure survival. From this we can then extrapolate that Kroot society has progressed to a point of sophistication that females are no longer burdened with sole responsibility for the upbringing of young. Since females tend to be larger, and let's face it, more aggressive, at least when their young are threatened, they would naturally progress to warrior caste after being freed from child rearing.


Hmmm. I think I know why men feel threatened by feminism...

 darkcloak wrote:
If Kroot are supposed to be like birds, then that means the Kroot we see on the GW website are actually female, since drab colours = female.

So this leads to some interesting conclusions. One, that females in Kroot society are the dominant sex. Second, that GW has been representing genders equally this whole time, with entire units of females from a culture where women obviously hold the reins.

Any bird watcher will tell you, it's the females that are drab and this is because as the primary caregiver to young they need to blend in to their background for safety. This helps ensure survival. From this we can then extrapolate that Kroot society has progressed to a point of sophistication that females are no longer burdened with sole responsibility for the upbringing of young. Since females tend to be larger, and let's face it, more aggressive, at least when their young are threatened, they would naturally progress to warrior caste after being freed from child rearing.


Hmmm. I think I know why men feel threatened by feminism...

this of course is based off the entire assumption that Kroot are exactly like earth avians right down to sexual diamorphism.

From the Rogue Trader RPG (where 'kroot mercenary' was a PC character option):

"While the Kroot do possess two genders, there are no real cultural differences between a male and a female Kroot. Physically, female Kroot are very difficult to distinguish from the males, and most observers find it nearly impossible to tell which is which. The Kroot’s unusual senses mean that the sexes are mostly distinct in ways unnoticeable to a human, and by the same token, most humans appear just as sexless to the Kroot!"

What I can remember about the Kroot that hasn't already been said(can't remember where I got these from, Xenology, some novels, old WD articles?)

Kroot consider eating of their own dead to be a spiritual thing, that if the dead aren't properly disposed their spirits are left to wander in a limbo. It can be done by cannibalism, but also by cremation or burial in right circumstances. It extends to some ways to outsiders too. Kroot eat those dead who have something they see as beneficial, that way a part of the dead lives on - so when they eat their enemies they are in a way saying that those had something so positive that the Kroot want their kids to more like them.

Kroot are tend to be pragmatic and often only do the bare minimum in any given situation. If a spaceship is needed they make one, but it wouldn't have as many fancy gubbins in it as an imperial ship would.

Kroot also learn really fast, so if a Kroot part timing as an engineer had enough time to study an Archeotech that AdMech can't even replicate they would eventually learn how to make more or even to apply its mechanism to something else, but would probably see no reason ever to do so.

On the other hand Kroot are very good at linquistics which is also part of their code of honor, since they considers any agreements or promises to be sacred and oathbreaking to be a terrible shame. To this extent they also like to wordsmith their contracts and documents in ways that let them benefit themselves, or just bugger off with their honor intact, if need be.

Wouldn't be suprised if Kroot part timed as interpreters or merchants in between combat.

Oh, interesting thing about Kroot and Tau is that Tau see the Kroot as a part of their empire while the Kroot seem to see the Tau as helpful neighbours with whom they have a contract.

Now that I think about it Kroot are much like parrots.

I think one reason that Kroot don't get much attention is that they superficially skirt a bit close to the Ork brand. Sexual dimorphism would help distinguish them, especially if it was done in such a way that we could see whatever is not the gender we already have (does the Kroot Carnivore kit represent the roosters or the hens? or both?) also represented on the tabletop. Because of course all right-thinking people will welcome additional Kroot models.

But honestly I think it's much more interesting if Kroot reproduce via parthenogenesis and supplement their genetic diversity by eating, er, well, whatever they want to be more like, trait-wise. And that would obviate the development of genders.

Personally, I love the Kroot as foils to their comically earnest Tau buddies. Tau seem uptight and naive to me whereas Kroot are more easygoing and pragmatic. I'd like to think it's a result of the Kroot sense of identity, which has got to be fairly flexible considering the race's ability to rapidly microevolve. It would make sense to me that their sexuality would be similarly flexible and the very notion of gender would seem a bit fanciful to them.

Lots of good ideas, I like it.

Good points fallowing the whole avian logic. If Kroot did behave like birds of prey, then the females could be the fighters instead. Flip the whole caregiver thing around. kinda like seahorses. Certainly reinforces the idea of Shapers being woman.

The rogue trader RPG seems a bit... boring, I guess. Maybe that's just my own desire to fit human ideas of culture and society on an alien species. The mutability of the Kroot is definitely an interesting aspect and gives some wiggle room for writing our own stories. It would easily allow for some Kroot to be gender-less while another story could have more obviously gendered characters. All this sounds like a more nomadic and extremely flexible culture would mesh nicely with the Kroot.

Older Tau codices have a bit more info on the kroot species.

Including the other kroot species on their homeworld - like the kroothawk (as well as knarlocs, kroot hounds, krootoxen).

A species can be dimorphic without needing to look different to non-kroot. Especially since they can direct their passed-on genetic traits by feeding on specific prey.
Colours that non-kroot eyes can't see, scents that non-kroot cannot smell. There are birds in the current terrestrial ecology that are like this - although most fall into the "males are much more flashy, females are somewhat dull of livery" pattern.

Personally, I see the whole "they're avians" thing as just a product of an ignorant and humanocentric AdMech magos biologis wrongly categorising xenos species with Terran terms. Kroot aren't related to Terran birds and there's no reason for them to have anything in common with them.

To me, they feel a lot like Octavia Butler's Oankali in their pragmatic and open-minded attitude to genetic hybridisation and self-modification, and their unusual-in-40K willingness to partner with other species. Obviously they don't have the Oankali's overt sensuality and their method of adopting other species' genetics is different, but the overall feel is similar, IMO.

So I'd look there for inspiration. Three sexes: male, female and ooloi or (using kroot terms) 'shaper'. Rather than the Oankali 'family' model of two males, two females and an ooloi who does the genetic jiggery-pokery, kroot 'families' would consist of a group of males and females (say 5-20?) and the shaper. Sex would involve the entire group, with genetic exchange mediated through the shaper, whose responsibility it is to make sure offspring have the right mix of traits. So basically extending the role the fluff already gives them in feeding into the reproductive arena.

Males and females would mostly be physically indistinguishable to non-kroot (though females might be slightly larger as they have to gestate the young inside themselves). Shapers would be visually distinct, and would have larger or additional sensory organs that enable them to smell/taste/otherwise sense genetic material directly like Oankali ooloi. Maybe the spiny crest kroot possess is a cluster of sensory organs (analogous to Oankali tentacles), and shapers would therefore have a larger crest of longer spines.

It would also be very creepy-grimdark if kroot approach the sensuality of eating the same way humans regard the sensuality of sex. Maybe being devoured by a kroot is pleasurable due to a dose of kroot pheromones? Maybe that's why they start their meal while you're still conscious?

Or you could go Black Panther style and have a subset of Kroot who were extremely primative and denigrated as talking apes. Just to illustrate how much better your subset of Kroot are...

 Duskweaver wrote:
Personally, I see the whole "they're avians" thing as just a product of an ignorant and humanocentric AdMech magos biologis wrongly categorising xenos species with Terran terms. Kroot aren't related to Terran birds and there's no reason for them to have anything in common with them.

To me, they feel a lot like Octavia Butler's Oankali in their pragmatic and open-minded attitude to genetic hybridisation and self-modification, and their unusual-in-40K willingness to partner with other species. Obviously they don't have the Oankali's overt sensuality and their method of adopting other species' genetics is different, but the overall feel is similar, IMO.

So I'd look there for inspiration. Three sexes: male, female and ooloi or (using kroot terms) 'shaper'. Rather than the Oankali 'family' model of two males, two females and an ooloi who does the genetic jiggery-pokery, kroot 'families' would consist of a group of males and females (say 5-20?) and the shaper. Sex would involve the entire group, with genetic exchange mediated through the shaper, whose responsibility it is to make sure offspring have the right mix of traits. So basically extending the role the fluff already gives them in feeding into the reproductive arena.

Males and females would mostly be physically indistinguishable to non-kroot (though females might be slightly larger as they have to gestate the young inside themselves). Shapers would be visually distinct, and would have larger or additional sensory organs that enable them to smell/taste/otherwise sense genetic material directly like Oankali ooloi. Maybe the spiny crest kroot possess is a cluster of sensory organs (analogous to Oankali tentacles), and shapers would therefore have a larger crest of longer spines.

It would also be very creepy-grimdark if kroot approach the sensuality of eating the same way humans regard the sensuality of sex. Maybe being devoured by a kroot is pleasurable due to a dose of kroot pheromones? Maybe that's why they start their meal while you're still conscious?

The sensual eating is a bit much for me, but I do like the idea of shapers being their own gender. It would make the Kroot much more alien and add some more dimensions to the Shapers. Perhaps a kroot changes into the Shaper of the tribe like fish change gender. Once a group of kroot becomes large enough, an individual might mutate into their Shaper.

So I put something together and I might as well share it here.
Wall of Text ahead.


If you think there's something you want to add or think I should change, feel free to share.

I think it's the original index xenos (where it's revealed their digestive system is one way only), but Kroot sexually reproduce by one kroot putting their hands on the back of an other, and transfer genetic information across from one to another that way. They don't have reproductive organs in the way we'd think (but probably some specialised patches of cells on the back), nor anuses. Ancestors know what the hell prompted Knarlocs to prey upon anus bearing creatures and decide this was a selective advantage, but that's Forgeworld for you.

Shapers aren't directly a part of the process, but are able to pick which elements of a prey's DNA to incorporate into their own (or possible understand it, most stories are more the shapers directing other kroot what to eat) - though more for future reproduction, a Kroot doesn't gain traits from eating things, future generations of Kroot do.

It's possibly pheremonal, as T'au water caste living amongst the Kroot said that at least one thought it was hilarious to follow him around making horrible smells.

If you fancy adding some extra science, you should really read up on Epigenetics for the Kroot. Terrestrial life has some fairly crazy ways of modifying their genomes on the fly based on environment factors (maximum size of new fish born being determined by the size of the largest predator in their lake, some elements of the current obesity crisis in the west being partly down to rationing for Grandparents during WW2).

Shaper pheromones influencing which genes are silent, active or spliced makes sense, given that this occurred even in precursor kroot species. Key is - it's a generational process, not something that happens overnight.

[edit] Here we go - family and social structure from the original Index Xenos:

Social Structure
The most important social group in Kroot society is the kindred, a family collective not unlike a tribe, consisting of extended families and groupings created by mating. Seniority within a kindred is one of instinctive recognition, with those Kroot able to direct the feeding of the group to better absorb useful DNA, known as Shapers, rising to become the leaders of each kindred. Kroot reproduce by the male placing his hands upon a female's back and secreting an oily sweat containing his genetic structure. The DNA of the male is merged with that of the female and the resultant infants grow within one of the female's nymune organs until they are ready to be born. In much the same way as indigestible food is disposed of, the females regurgitate the Kroot infants. A Kroot female can give birth to seven or eight infants each year, though only around a quarter of those will survive to adulthood. Once born, the energy stored within the mother's nymunes serves to provide the stimulus required for the Kroot young to begin their accelerated growth. The young Kroot mature at an astonishing rate, with most new-borns able to take their place within the kindred before their tenth year. Kroot family groupings care for and protect their young for several years, until they are strong enough to fend for themselves and begin establishing their own family.

The Kroot place great respect on those that have gone before them, their genetic forefathers, and ancestor worship is extremely common on the Kroot home worlds. Older Kroot are respected for their accumulated wisdom and the genetic material they have gathered throughout their lives. When a Kroot dies, his immediate family consumes the body and thus precious genetic material is preserved within the kindred. Family is important to the Kroot and they will fight to protect their kindred, although if family groups are forced to rapidly displace due to war, famine or other calamitous events, the old and young are killed and eaten by the kindred in order to facilitate their speedy relocation. While outsiders would no doubt consider this practice barbaric, to the pragmatic Kroot it is considered a noble sacrifice that the young and old allow their genetic material and heritage to be saved in this way for future generations.


...and a bit on biology...

The Kroot generate little in the way of waste, excreting in the form of a pungent, oily sweat that has a variety of properties, depending on what the Kroot has consumed. The most apparent benefits are that this sweat appears to be heat retardant to a degree, has antibiotic properties and can cause a poorly aimed blow to slide clear. It is suspected that the Kroot can alter the properties of this secretion in order to leave pheromone trails, mark territories, leave warnings and even communicate with one another. This may also be some form of control that extends to lower life forms such as birds and animals, as there is evidence to suggest that the Kroot employ empathic pheromones to prevent such creatures from being startled by them and giving away their position in battle. Combined with this method of communication, the Kroot can learn new languages at an astounding rate, matching posture and tone to the sound of foreign words in order to discern their meaning. Their own verbal communication is a mixture of clicks and whistles, possibly reinforced by these pheromone exudations.

By far the most odious habit of the Kroot is their practice of eating the flesh of the dead. In battle, this leads them to ritually devour the corpses of those they have killed, and almost nothing is beyond their tastes. The Kroot digestive system is extremely efficient, capable of breaking down almost any organic material into an energy form that can be stored in specialised organs scattered throughout their bodies called nymunes. Should anything inorganic and indigestible be consumed, the Kroot must regurgitate it, with considerable discomfort. However, the strangest quirk of Kroot digestion is their ability to extract potentially useful strands of their food's DNA. Adeptus Mechanicus Genetors have long been aware that much of the double helix structure of DNA is in fact blank, used to separate those areas that do contain genetic information. The Kroot have somehow inherited the ability to incorporate useful DNA codes into their own genetic makeup. Larger Kroot, called Shapers, who have an instinctive understanding of this process, can direct their kindred to consume certain prey in order that, in successive generations, they may take on elements of those genes.

This process is not an exact science and there are many examples of where it has gone awry, leaving some Kroot trapped in evolutionary cul-de-sacs, the Krootox and Kroot Hounds being the most visible evidence of this. At some point in their evolutionary history, both sub-species of Kroot fed upon creatures that were possessed of traits they wished to take on, but, in doing so, atrophied their intelligence. The Krootox are now much larger and stronger, but became lumbering creatures, more akin to forest dwelling herbivores than their smaller, more intelligent, kin. The Kroot Hounds became faster and leaner but, like the Krootox, their intelligence was reduced, becoming little more than vicious predators. There are other variations, such as the smaller, flying Kroothawk and the serpentine Krootworm, as well as other, more terrifying, creatures. Deep within the forests of Pech, there exist beasts that were once Kroot, but have since descended hideous evolutionary paths to become monsters that feed on their own kind. Such places have become cursed and only the bravest or most foolhardy Kroot ever venture within their haunted depths.

Meh... all I want to know is when I get my Superkroot that have fed on Space Marines and MagiKroot that have eaten psykers.

Tastyfish wrote:
I think it's the original index xenos (where it's revealed their digestive system is one way only), but Kroot sexually reproduce by one kroot putting their hands on the back of an other, and transfer genetic information across from one to another that way. They don't have reproductive organs in the way we'd think (but probably some specialised patches of cells on the back), nor anuses. Ancestors know what the hell prompted Knarlocs to prey upon anus bearing creatures and decide this was a selective advantage, but that's Forgeworld for you.

Shapers aren't directly a part of the process, but are able to pick which elements of a prey's DNA to incorporate into their own (or possible understand it, most stories are more the shapers directing other kroot what to eat) - though more for future reproduction, a Kroot doesn't gain traits from eating things, future generations of Kroot do.

It's possibly pheremonal, as T'au water caste living amongst the Kroot said that at least one thought it was hilarious to follow him around making horrible smells.

If you fancy adding some extra science, you should really read up on Epigenetics for the Kroot. Terrestrial life has some fairly crazy ways of modifying their genomes on the fly based on environment factors (maximum size of new fish born being determined by the size of the largest predator in their lake, some elements of the current obesity crisis in the west being partly down to rationing for Grandparents during WW2).

Shaper pheromones influencing which genes are silent, active or spliced makes sense, given that this occurred even in precursor kroot species. Key is - it's a generational process, not something that happens overnight.

[edit] Here we go - family and social structure from the original Index Xenos:

Social Structure
The most important social group in Kroot society is the kindred, a family collective not unlike a tribe, consisting of extended families and groupings created by mating. Seniority within a kindred is one of instinctive recognition, with those Kroot able to direct the feeding of the group to better absorb useful DNA, known as Shapers, rising to become the leaders of each kindred. Kroot reproduce by the male placing his hands upon a female's back and secreting an oily sweat containing his genetic structure. The DNA of the male is merged with that of the female and the resultant infants grow within one of the female's nymune organs until they are ready to be born. In much the same way as indigestible food is disposed of, the females regurgitate the Kroot infants. A Kroot female can give birth to seven or eight infants each year, though only around a quarter of those will survive to adulthood. Once born, the energy stored within the mother's nymunes serves to provide the stimulus required for the Kroot young to begin their accelerated growth. The young Kroot mature at an astonishing rate, with most new-borns able to take their place within the kindred before their tenth year. Kroot family groupings care for and protect their young for several years, until they are strong enough to fend for themselves and begin establishing their own family.

The Kroot place great respect on those that have gone before them, their genetic forefathers, and ancestor worship is extremely common on the Kroot home worlds. Older Kroot are respected for their accumulated wisdom and the genetic material they have gathered throughout their lives. When a Kroot dies, his immediate family consumes the body and thus precious genetic material is preserved within the kindred. Family is important to the Kroot and they will fight to protect their kindred, although if family groups are forced to rapidly displace due to war, famine or other calamitous events, the old and young are killed and eaten by the kindred in order to facilitate their speedy relocation. While outsiders would no doubt consider this practice barbaric, to the pragmatic Kroot it is considered a noble sacrifice that the young and old allow their genetic material and heritage to be saved in this way for future generations.


...and a bit on biology...

The Kroot generate little in the way of waste, excreting in the form of a pungent, oily sweat that has a variety of properties, depending on what the Kroot has consumed. The most apparent benefits are that this sweat appears to be heat retardant to a degree, has antibiotic properties and can cause a poorly aimed blow to slide clear. It is suspected that the Kroot can alter the properties of this secretion in order to leave pheromone trails, mark territories, leave warnings and even communicate with one another. This may also be some form of control that extends to lower life forms such as birds and animals, as there is evidence to suggest that the Kroot employ empathic pheromones to prevent such creatures from being startled by them and giving away their position in battle. Combined with this method of communication, the Kroot can learn new languages at an astounding rate, matching posture and tone to the sound of foreign words in order to discern their meaning. Their own verbal communication is a mixture of clicks and whistles, possibly reinforced by these pheromone exudations.

By far the most odious habit of the Kroot is their practice of eating the flesh of the dead. In battle, this leads them to ritually devour the corpses of those they have killed, and almost nothing is beyond their tastes. The Kroot digestive system is extremely efficient, capable of breaking down almost any organic material into an energy form that can be stored in specialised organs scattered throughout their bodies called nymunes. Should anything inorganic and indigestible be consumed, the Kroot must regurgitate it, with considerable discomfort. However, the strangest quirk of Kroot digestion is their ability to extract potentially useful strands of their food's DNA. Adeptus Mechanicus Genetors have long been aware that much of the double helix structure of DNA is in fact blank, used to separate those areas that do contain genetic information. The Kroot have somehow inherited the ability to incorporate useful DNA codes into their own genetic makeup. Larger Kroot, called Shapers, who have an instinctive understanding of this process, can direct their kindred to consume certain prey in order that, in successive generations, they may take on elements of those genes.

This process is not an exact science and there are many examples of where it has gone awry, leaving some Kroot trapped in evolutionary cul-de-sacs, the Krootox and Kroot Hounds being the most visible evidence of this. At some point in their evolutionary history, both sub-species of Kroot fed upon creatures that were possessed of traits they wished to take on, but, in doing so, atrophied their intelligence. The Krootox are now much larger and stronger, but became lumbering creatures, more akin to forest dwelling herbivores than their smaller, more intelligent, kin. The Kroot Hounds became faster and leaner but, like the Krootox, their intelligence was reduced, becoming little more than vicious predators. There are other variations, such as the smaller, flying Kroothawk and the serpentine Krootworm, as well as other, more terrifying, creatures. Deep within the forests of Pech, there exist beasts that were once Kroot, but have since descended hideous evolutionary paths to become monsters that feed on their own kind. Such places have become cursed and only the bravest or most foolhardy Kroot ever venture within their haunted depths.

Good idea with the epigenetics, I'll have to think of something to write. Maybe that's something both shapers and regular Kroot could manipulate.

Also, Kroot mating through touch is cool. Back rubs make for good foreplay but the Kroot must take it to a whole new level.

I think the most quasi-scientifically accurate (in the league of "I guess you could do that with wormholes") way you'd get the epigenetic element working would be that Krootiforms produce a lot of young and have some way of recognising common sequences amongst their prey.

Back in the real world, the Kroot method is one of the most common ways of gene transfer, probably not that far off sex. Myriad single cell creatures, when under stress, just incorporate any DNA they find into themselves and hope it will save them even though it didn't the original owner. More cunning ones recognise their colony is under attack and poison all the neighbours, then hoover up whatever DNA fragments they can under the assumption that those guys were surviving when your guys weren't. It's a reckless process, but you only need one of your clones to survive to start again. This ability is something that humans have hijacked to lay the foundation of our genetic engineering technologies - that under chemical or heat stress, a lot of bacteria know they're not coping and will gamble with any card from another's hand.

Kroot live a long time, and clearly must have some more checks and balances (like we have at the DNA stucture) that monitor and block rogue alien proteins interfering too much in the development of a Kroot - likely the early stages after mating. Stuff starts interfering with development of a fetal kroot, gene gets turned off - but not deleted. New genes are only incorporated once you reach a certain basic level - but lets not forget that most new genes an archaic Krootiform would encounter are new mutations in a related species.

Another wierd quirk of real world biology is that we, as humans, have the ability to rearrange and randomise some of our genes. It's how the immune system works - there's a basic pattern that says how to build the structure of an anti-body or a variety of receptors, that also comes with the instructions to just go wild at this specific point - cutting, swapping and rearranging whole sections of the DNA that codes for the bit of the protein that recognises other things.

If I took a swab from your cheek, and sequenced the gene for your basic antibodies. Every cell would be the same, if I did the same on some blood - and then isolated just the antibody producing white blood cells, they would all be different.

Interestingly, this same mix and rearrange genes are used in our sense of smell.

So if you were a Kroot with a similar system, and used something like our antibodies to trigger an olfactory response rather than having the same method applied to two different proteins, you'd specifically be able to smell a protein that you're interested in. Combine it with an immune system, nymune organ and the sense of smell and you could eat something, recognise that biochemically, be able to reproduce the sequence and then smell it in others (add a pheromone like our cells do antigen display and you'd recognise it in others).

Trick would be to have these just spread as far and wide through the family, and then activate the ones that are useful via specific pheramones - the Kroot think that they're not dead ends, but perhaps it's more that they've managed to combine the natural krootiform ability with the intelligence of a sommelier to recognise which of the new genes to turn on and off.

So that's the molecular biology of Kroot, alternatively you could just brute force it and go the more stupid fantasy root. Which is the method used by Sea Slugs. They eat stuff specifically avoid damaging certain toxins whilst being immune to them, which they flood their body with, or even digest their prey apart from specific whole cells (from stinging jellyfish) that then then move from their gut to protrusions from the skin to form their own stinging tentacles.

Small step from that to also sending those cells to the gametes, who murder them and steal their DNA so future slugs have the poison (like any good microbe would do). There's probably even a slug that does this. Nudibranchs are so pretty but so dumb. Literally evidence of God's cheat codes left in the extended beta test we call Creation.

Goddamn the real world is so silly.

And... the importance of distinguishing "female roles" in a scifi fantasy game is exactly what?

So many similar posts have been locked because sooner than later it spirals out of c9ntrol. Better leave the subject alone...

Tastyfish wrote:I think the most quasi-scientifically accurate (in the league of "I guess you could do that with wormholes") way you'd get the epigenetic element working would be that Krootiforms produce a lot of young and have some way of recognising common sequences amongst their prey.

Back in the real world, the Kroot method is one of the most common ways of gene transfer, probably not that far off sex. Myriad single cell creatures, when under stress, just incorporate any DNA they find into themselves and hope it will save them even though it didn't the original owner. More cunning ones recognise their colony is under attack and poison all the neighbours, then hoover up whatever DNA fragments they can under the assumption that those guys were surviving when your guys weren't. It's a reckless process, but you only need one of your clones to survive to start again. This ability is something that humans have hijacked to lay the foundation of our genetic engineering technologies - that under chemical or heat stress, a lot of bacteria know they're not coping and will gamble with any card from another's hand.

Kroot live a long time, and clearly must have some more checks and balances (like we have at the DNA stucture) that monitor and block rogue alien proteins interfering too much in the development of a Kroot - likely the early stages after mating. Stuff starts interfering with development of a fetal kroot, gene gets turned off - but not deleted. New genes are only incorporated once you reach a certain basic level - but lets not forget that most new genes an archaic Krootiform would encounter are new mutations in a related species.

Another wierd quirk of real world biology is that we, as humans, have the ability to rearrange and randomise some of our genes. It's how the immune system works - there's a basic pattern that says how to build the structure of an anti-body or a variety of receptors, that also comes with the instructions to just go wild at this specific point - cutting, swapping and rearranging whole sections of the DNA that codes for the bit of the protein that recognises other things.

If I took a swab from your cheek, and sequenced the gene for your basic antibodies. Every cell would be the same, if I did the same on some blood - and then isolated just the antibody producing white blood cells, they would all be different.

Interestingly, this same mix and rearrange genes are used in our sense of smell.

So if you were a Kroot with a similar system, and used something like our antibodies to trigger an olfactory response rather than having the same method applied to two different proteins, you'd specifically be able to smell a protein that you're interested in. Combine it with an immune system, nymune organ and the sense of smell and you could eat something, recognise that biochemically, be able to reproduce the sequence and then smell it in others (add a pheromone like our cells do antigen display and you'd recognise it in others).

Trick would be to have these just spread as far and wide through the family, and then activate the ones that are useful via specific pheramones - the Kroot think that they're not dead ends, but perhaps it's more that they've managed to combine the natural krootiform ability with the intelligence of a sommelier to recognise which of the new genes to turn on and off.

So that's the molecular biology of Kroot, alternatively you could just brute force it and go the more stupid fantasy root. Which is the method used by Sea Slugs. They eat stuff specifically avoid damaging certain toxins whilst being immune to them, which they flood their body with, or even digest their prey apart from specific whole cells (from stinging jellyfish) that then then move from their gut to protrusions from the skin to form their own stinging tentacles.

Small step from that to also sending those cells to the gametes, who murder them and steal their DNA so future slugs have the poison (like any good microbe would do). There's probably even a slug that does this. Nudibranchs are so pretty but so dumb. Literally evidence of God's cheat codes left in the extended beta test we call Creation.

Goddamn the real world is so silly.

That's a pretty interesting. I did not realize antibodies could rearrange genetics like that or that there was a species of slug that could actually obtain proteins from consuming prey. The more you know.

With this in mind, maybe Kroot shapers have such an olfactory skill, or some similar organ that could detect proteins in other species. Any genetic material that seems like it could mesh with the Kroot genome and the shaper will be able smell/sense it. No that I think of it, if Kroot offspring are the inheritors of new mutations and shapers are responsible for kiding the genetic path of the tribe; would Kroot shapers perhaps be wet nurses? Interesting thought.
I also imagine Kroot childhood is quite brutal. Lots of animals give birth to more young than they can support, the most fit bullying their siblings for food. That way the kroot offspring with the most useful mutations would survive into adulthood. Process of elimination and all that. Alternatively maybe these new sequences are activated later in life, maybe puberty or certain triggers in the environment. I like the first idea, only because it would fit that Kroot-like brutality and savagery.

skchsan wrote:And... the importance of distinguishing "female roles" in a scifi fantasy game is exactly what?

So many similar posts have been locked because sooner than later it spirals out of c9ntrol. Better leave the subject alone...

I will admit, the title is a bit of a click bait.

The difference here is that this is just for fun. We're not saying what is right or wrong, but simply what would be interesting to explore. Nothing wrong with a little world building. There will be ideas that we like and dislike I just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts.

These threads usually fall apart because someone drops in to be dismissive and contrarian. Good sir.