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Like in official lore/Canon?

Were they retconned out of existence with the release of the Scions?

Were they all wiped out when Cadia was destroyed?

Did they all just get new uniforms?

They're still here, but Scion GW discountinued the models, we'll never see them again appart from older artwork being reused

They were still there in Cadia Stands which is a pretty new book. The models have just been replaced.

 Bobthehero wrote:
They're still here, but Scion GW discountinued the models, we'll never see them again appart from older artwork being reused

They've been in some new artwork too, but they're definitely not going anywhere.

With Cadia destroyed the regiments serving off world still exist. Also anyone using the Cadian pattern armour and weapons that the Kasrkin use are still around and probably still being supplied by various Forgeworlds. In practice with the models gone and unlikely to return other than as a limited cast on demand that means that if you have them you have them and if you don't you don't, I@ve got about three squads and I've always preferred the idea of them as carapaced vet squads rather than as Scions.

Arcanis161 wrote:
Like in official lore/Canon?

Were they retconned out of existence with the release of the Scions?

Were they all wiped out when Cadia was destroyed?

Did they all just get new uniforms?

Unless I'm mistaken, the Kasrkin and the Storm Troopers were always entirely seperate in the lore. The only similarities is their equipment and general battlefield role/level of training. The latter are Imperial orphans gathered and trained from all over the IoM in Schola Progenia who go on to become Storm Troopers, Commissars, Inquisitors, high-level Imperial officers, officials, agents, Sisters of Battle, etc. The former, by contrast, are specifically raised and trained on Cadia only, and form the grenadier/elite veteran role for the Cadian Shock Troops. The Scions replaced the Storm Troopers, not the Kasrkin.

 Anfauglir wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken, the Kasrkin and the Storm Troopers were always entirely seperate in the lore. The only similarities is their equipment and general battlefield role/level of training. The latter are Imperial orphans gathered and trained from all over the IoM in Schola Progenia who go on to become Storm Troopers, Commissars, Inquisitors, high-level Imperial officers, officials, agents, Sisters of Battle, etc. The former, by contrast, are specifically raised and trained on Cadia only, and form the grenadier/elite veteran role for the Cadian Shock Troops. The Scions replaced the Storm Troopers, not the Kasrkin.

Cadia had a lot of interesting when it comes to them and the Schola Progenium.

"Cadian Blood"(CB) established that Commissars weren't really welcomed/necessary for Cadians. To the point of Cadian officers going through similar training to handle psykers attached to their commands or regimental disciplinary actions.
Kasrkin are established in CB, "Gunheads", and other sources as actually having had their own 'training academies' and programs on Cadia. They didn't really do the whole deep strike or infiltration thing, but CB had them acting as a quick reaction force(with a fantastic sequence of a dynamic entry via rappel lines). They were the linebreakers, the bodyguards, and the anvil that a Cadian commander could rely upon.

Hopefully at some point we get them returned.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken, the Kasrkin and the Storm Troopers were always entirely seperate in the lore. The only similarities is their equipment and general battlefield role/level of training. The latter are Imperial orphans gathered and trained from all over the IoM in Schola Progenia who go on to become Storm Troopers, Commissars, Inquisitors, high-level Imperial officers, officials, agents, Sisters of Battle, etc. The former, by contrast, are specifically raised and trained on Cadia only, and form the grenadier/elite veteran role for the Cadian Shock Troops. The Scions replaced the Storm Troopers, not the Kasrkin.

Cadia had a lot of interesting when it comes to them and the Schola Progenium.

"Cadian Blood"(CB) established that Commissars weren't really welcomed/necessary for Cadians. To the point of Cadian officers going through similar training to handle psykers attached to their commands or regimental disciplinary actions.
Kasrkin are established in CB, "Gunheads", and other sources as actually having had their own 'training academies' and programs on Cadia. They didn't really do the whole deep strike or infiltration thing, but CB had them acting as a quick reaction force(with a fantastic sequence of a dynamic entry via rappel lines). They were the linebreakers, the bodyguards, and the anvil that a Cadian commander could rely upon.

Hopefully at some point we get them returned.

Ok cool, so pretty much as I thought, then. I keep meaning to pick up Cadian Blood as I often hear good things about it. I'm particularly interested in the part about them being a quick reaction force and rappelling into battle, as that's pretty much what my 1222nd Lancers are - no carapace or hellguns mind you, just an elite light infantry force (think WWII 101st Airborne meets Vietnam 1st Cavalry Division (airmobile) meets 1990s-present 75th Ranger Regiment).

Basically, they were kept back at the base loaded in a Valkyrie waiting for a call-in.

If GW ever decide to revisit the Cadian line (those sculpts are not aging well, I'll tell you that...) since the basic kit lacks basic weapons options that infantry squads have, it'd be great for them to throw in Kasrkin for Cadians and Catachan Devils for Catachans as proper elites choices where the veterans feel like veterans.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken, the Kasrkin and the Storm Troopers were always entirely seperate in the lore. The only similarities is their equipment and general battlefield role/level of training. The latter are Imperial orphans gathered and trained from all over the IoM in Schola Progenia who go on to become Storm Troopers, Commissars, Inquisitors, high-level Imperial officers, officials, agents, Sisters of Battle, etc. The former, by contrast, are specifically raised and trained on Cadia only, and form the grenadier/elite veteran role for the Cadian Shock Troops. The Scions replaced the Storm Troopers, not the Kasrkin.

Cadia had a lot of interesting when it comes to them and the Schola Progenium.

"Cadian Blood"(CB) established that Commissars weren't really welcomed/necessary for Cadians. To the point of Cadian officers going through similar training to handle psykers attached to their commands or regimental disciplinary actions.
Kasrkin are established in CB, "Gunheads", and other sources as actually having had their own 'training academies' and programs on Cadia. They didn't really do the whole deep strike or infiltration thing, but CB had them acting as a quick reaction force(with a fantastic sequence of a dynamic entry via rappel lines). They were the linebreakers, the bodyguards, and the anvil that a Cadian commander could rely upon.

Hopefully at some point we get them returned.

There's a nice sequence with them in one of the Eisenhorn books, too. I want to say Malleus, but I could be wrong there.

 Dysartes wrote:

There's a nice sequence with them in one of the Eisenhorn books, too. I want to say Malleus, but I could be wrong there.

I believe it's Malleus--it's whatever the second book is.

Worth mentioning that from there the Kasrkin concept evolved further, starting with the "Eye of Terror" codex.

Grimskul wrote:If GW ever decide to revisit the Cadian line (those sculpts are not aging well, I'll tell you that...) since the basic kit lacks basic weapons options that infantry squads have, it'd be great for them to throw in Kasrkin for Cadians and Catachan Devils for Catachans as proper elites choices where the veterans feel like veterans.

I've actually been suggesting for awhile that each of the Regiments get a 'signature unit'--and that goes for every army out there.
Catachan Devils could be an Elite choice, Veterans that can split off and act as individual characters with access for the whole squad to get Special Weapons.
Kasrkin could be an Elite choice, granting the effects of the "Get Back In The Fight!" Order without the downside of having to be Ordered.
Tallarn could get an Elite Sentinel Squadron that grants benefits to nearby Vehicles.
Vostroyans could get a "Firstborn" Elite choice, granting FRFSRF to nearby Veteran Squads or Firstborn Squads.
Armageddon could get Ork Hunters as an Elite choice, units that effectively have the statlines of Crusaders but with the loadout of Officers and they get the ability to Infiltrate and a 'hatred' against Orks.

But those sadly won't be the case.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

There's a nice sequence with them in one of the Eisenhorn books, too. I want to say Malleus, but I could be wrong there.

I believe it's Malleus--it's whatever the second book is.

Worth mentioning that from there the Kasrkin concept evolved further, starting with the "Eye of Terror" codex.

Grimskul wrote:If GW ever decide to revisit the Cadian line (those sculpts are not aging well, I'll tell you that...) since the basic kit lacks basic weapons options that infantry squads have, it'd be great for them to throw in Kasrkin for Cadians and Catachan Devils for Catachans as proper elites choices where the veterans feel like veterans.

I've actually been suggesting for awhile that each of the Regiments get a 'signature unit'--and that goes for every army out there.
Catachan Devils could be an Elite choice, Veterans that can split off and act as individual characters with access for the whole squad to get Special Weapons.
Kasrkin could be an Elite choice, granting the effects of the "Get Back In The Fight!" Order without the downside of having to be Ordered.
Tallarn could get an Elite Sentinel Squadron that grants benefits to nearby Vehicles.
Vostroyans could get a "Firstborn" Elite choice, granting FRFSRF to nearby Veteran Squads or Firstborn Squads.
Armageddon could get Ork Hunters as an Elite choice, units that effectively have the statlines of Crusaders but with the loadout of Officers and they get the ability to Infiltrate and a 'hatred' against Orks.

But those sadly won't be the case.

Those ideas are pretty damn good. And yeah, its sadly a pipe dream. Unless you're a space marine you won't get any regiment specific units of your models outside of FW (and even that's slowly getting sacked). It always boggles me since IG should be amongst the most diverse model wise. I guess that's why there's so many 3rd party "not-regiment" models.

Honestly, even Space Marines don't get those.

Basically none of the Chapters have their 'signature' units.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly, even Space Marines don't get those.

Basically none of the Chapters have their 'signature' units.

Don't Ultramarines get Tyrannic War Vets? Dark Angels get their Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels their Death Company/Sanguinary Guard, Space Wolves have TW Calvary/Wulfen, and Grey Knights have Paladins.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly, even Space Marines don't get those.

Basically none of the Chapters have their 'signature' units.

Don't Ultramarines get Tyrannic War Vets? Dark Angels get their Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels their Death Company/Sanguinary Guard, Space Wolves have TW Calvary/Wulfen, and Grey Knights have Paladins.

Tyrannic War Veterans aren't in the codex.

The others are their own unique books, so they have different units in some spots.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly, even Space Marines don't get those.

Basically none of the Chapters have their 'signature' units.

Don't Ultramarines get Tyrannic War Vets? Dark Angels get their Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels their Death Company/Sanguinary Guard, Space Wolves have TW Calvary/Wulfen, and Grey Knights have Paladins.

Tyrannic War Veterans aren't in the codex.

The others are their own unique books, so they have different units in some spots.

That's what I meant when I originally said that only marines get special units, but if you meant only vanilla marines, then yeah they don't, but I'm not surprised they don't, the book is bloated enough with units as is.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly, even Space Marines don't get those.

Basically none of the Chapters have their 'signature' units.

Don't Ultramarines get Tyrannic War Vets? Dark Angels get their Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels their Death Company/Sanguinary Guard, Space Wolves have TW Calvary/Wulfen, and Grey Knights have Paladins.

Tyrannic War Veterans aren't in the codex.

The others are their own unique books, so they have different units in some spots.

That's what I meant when I originally said that only marines get special units, but if you meant only vanilla marines, then yeah they don't, but I'm not surprised they don't, the book is bloated enough with units as is.

sure but remember you may lump Blood angels dark angels etc as "just marines" but they're seperate codices and thus to GW's mind seperate product lines that share lots of overlap. if they published a "Codex: Cadia, Codex Catachans" etc we'd see some special units and divergance.

as regreattable as it may be (and in my mind it really is) you don't get special toys without a codex.

There have at least been unique models for vanilla Marines though, most recently the Ultramarines upgrade pack. Older examples being the White Scar pack and Iron Hands pack.

This does match the metal ranges for IG, as opposed to specific elite units (the exceptions being the Tyrannic war veterans mentioned above, who no longer have rules).


Personally, I wouldn't want Armageddon Ork hunters for the Steel Legion- the Ork hunters have a different character as jungle fighters, and don't fit in well alongside the rest of the Steel Legion aesthetic. I'd prefer something that was in a gasmask personally.

However, I think the best option is to release a plastic infantry squad, command squad, and heavy weapons team for each of the main Regiments (with compatible parts), and then leave the rest up to conversions.

Re-adding the options to Veteran squads would cover much of the gap- I miss Grenadiers, Scouts and Demolitions.

Tempestus Scions are a type of Stormtroopers who are trained in Scholar Progeniums. There are other Stormtrooper organizations that exist within the Imperium, and the Kasrkin is among them.

Now that Cadia is destroyed, Cadia regiments can no longer raise troops from their own homeworld and must recruit from other planets. I wonder if the tern Kasrkin (which derives from Kasr - either a hive or a district - on Cadia).

bibotot wrote:
Tempestus Scions are a type of Stormtroopers who are trained in Scholar Progeniums. There are other Stormtrooper organizations that exist within the Imperium, and the Kasrkin is among them.

This is incorrect.
Scions are THE Stormtroopers. When someone in the Imperium refers to the Schola Progenium trained Stormtroopers? That's the Scions.

Everyone else are "stormtroopers"/"storm troops"/"grenadiers". Kasrkin fall under the auspices of "grenadiers"/"storm troops". They're heavily armored and heavily armed troops specializing in line breaking, acting as headquarters security, and generally just being badasses.

Scions are trained to perform what are effectively "special operations"/"suicide missions".

Now that Cadia is destroyed, Cadia regiments can no longer raise troops from their own homeworld and must recruit from other planets. I wonder if the tern Kasrkin (which derives from Kasr - either a hive or a district - on Cadia).

"Kasrs" are the names given to their fortified cities and the fortresses themselves. Some heavily fortified planets also have "Kasr" as part of their names.
As of the end of "Cadia Stands", the world of Agrippina is now "New Cadia". Kasrkin are still around the galaxy and still recruiting.