[2000] - AM - Burn em all

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**p5freak**

Hordes are welcome ! Let the cleansing begin

Hellhounds put out 18D6 S6 heavy flamer auto hits per turn at 16", re-rolling 9D6 because of catachans. Artemia hellhounds do the same, but the lowest dice is discarded, also re-rolling 9D6 for catachans, and they have D2 damage. Good luck charging a hellhound which does auto hits on overwatch, and explodes on a 4+ doing D3/D6 MW

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [67 PL, 1203pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Catachan

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Warlord

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [18 PL, 321pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

Hellhounds [18 PL, 321pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

Hellhounds [18 PL, 321pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [56 PL, 775pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Catachan

+ HQ +

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave

+ Fast Attack +

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [18 PL, 243pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [18 PL, 243pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [18 PL, 243pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter

++ Total: [123 PL, 1978pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

**Dampyr Blackblade**

This actually looks scary, I have to say. I'd say you can deal with most threats, the only thing you lack is range... Couldn't you drop a couple Hounds for Manticores/Basilisks maybe?

**p5freak**

Hellhounds move 12" and have 16" range. For longer ranges I have LC and HKM.

**TheGreatBeard**

I like this but you will find it difficult to hold objectives. 30 IG troops can be wiped off the board pretty easily by forcing morale checks at the very least.

While I like the threat of all the Hellhounds, you've got few targets for 2000pts and even fewer if you keep your infantry squads hidden in them. You'll have few targets for your 2000pt opponent to target. This list seems like a bit of a glass cannon not in the sense of toughness but in the sense that you'll really feel even the loss of one unit.

**mikeownz**

This list is on fire...haha.

I have a catachan baneblade with 4 sponsons with twin heavy flamers and thought 8D6 flamers was insane.

I guess I overlooked the hellhounds and Artemia Pattern Hellhound. I will be looking to add some into my lists.

I still like tank commander lemans's and pask so I will probably have a mix.

**skchsan**

Isn't this pretty much the same thing as the "leaf blower" last year?

**Kcalehc**

p5freak wrote:
Hellhounds move 12" and have 16" range. For longer ranges I have LC and HKM.

So a smart enemy deploys 4.1" behind their deployment line, and doesn't move first turn. You don't get to shoot him much on round 1.

If you don't go first a wily opponent destroys the right hellhounds (as squadrons have to set up within 6" of each other), those MWs from them exploding, can cause a few problems to your own line...

Though once you get within range, absolutely terrifying indeed, all those auto hits and exploding balls of fire will cause havoc.

**skchsan**

You just have to charge the hellhounds and force them to fall back in order to shoot. Get them in a traffic jam and you win on objectives. There's only so much space on a 4x6 table to park 18 hellhounds.

**p5freak**

Kcalehc wrote:

So a smart enemy deploys 4.1" behind their deployment line, and doesn't move first turn. You don't get to shoot him much on round 1.

Really ? Is he outside of the 48" range of my HKMs and LCs ? Im ok if he doesnt move, gives me some board control.

skchsan wrote:
You just have to charge the hellhounds and force them to fall back in order to shoot. Get them in a traffic jam and you win on objectives. There's only so much space on a 4x6 table to park 18 hellhounds.

Yes, please. Charge my overwatch autohitting 2D6 shots S6 AP-1 D1 vehicles.

**tneva82**

9 HK's and 3 lascannons isn't that much shooting from 2k. Point being your entire turn 1 shooting pretty much "ignore" if you go first. If he goes first then yeah he can move if he wants or give him 2 turns before you get to range.

But yeh scary enough though hard counters are around. Knights probably will eat that army for lunch staying clear from those enough you can't really concentrate fire sufficiently while popping several a turn.

And S6 -1 D1 isn't btw stopping vehicles from charging. No big deal. And with infantry he can actually charge multiples without more than 1 overwatch. Charge one, position several others within pile in range, pile in. Keep an eye for that. I lose happily 6 grots from 30 to overwatch to tag 2-4 OTHER hellhounds from shooting next turn.

Also there's big financial risk of buying and painting all that. Eventually GW will change rules making that junk. Especially Artemis, being FW resin, is in huge risk for price increase of 2-3 digit %'s.

**Kcalehc**

p5freak wrote:
Kcalehc wrote:

So a smart enemy deploys 4.1" behind their deployment line, and doesn't move first turn. You don't get to shoot him much on round 1.

Really ? Is he outside of the 48" range of my HKMs and LCs ? I'm ok if he doesn't move, gives me some board control.

I didn't say you won't get to shoot him at all, I said you won't get to shoot him much. And that's what, 12 weapons, all heavy 1, -1 to hit on all the missiles (assuming the hellhounds moved which I'm sure they will). You get to suffer through 2 full rounds of enemy shooting before you can hurt him in any reasonable way.

It's still a scary army, and getting enough of those hellhounds close will do a lot of damage; and you could easily wipe many non-superheavy armies in short order once you get there; but you've got to get there first. I'd still be worried facing it, the MWs from those hellhounds cooking off are indiscriminate and quite a worrisome prospect.

**skchsan**

p5freak wrote:

skchsan wrote:
You just have to charge the hellhounds and force them to fall back in order to shoot. Get them in a traffic jam and you win on objectives. There's only so much space on a 4x6 table to park 18 hellhounds.

Yes, please. Charge my overwatch autohitting 2D6 shots S6 AP-1 D1 vehicles.

Withstanding overwatch and forcing a fallback > allowing hellhounds to fire every turn.

This list has been presented at a major tourney and was beat exactly using this tactic.

**mikeownz**

skchsan wrote:
p5freak wrote:

skchsan wrote:
You just have to charge the hellhounds and force them to fall back in order to shoot. Get them in a traffic jam and you win on objectives. There's only so much space on a 4x6 table to park 18 hellhounds.

Yes, please. Charge my overwatch autohitting 2D6 shots S6 AP-1 D1 vehicles.
Withstanding overwatch and forcing a fallback > allowing hellhounds to fire every turn.

This list has been presented at a major tourney and was beat exactly using this tactic.

How well did the list do overall though? If it got its ass beat every game then yea, I guess not so good. But I am ok with not subscribing to the, if you ain't first, you're last, mentality.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am thinking of a variant of this list, at least with a baneblade with 4 twin flamer on 4 sponsons. That way I am 100% ok if I get charged. If baneblade gets stuck in combat, no worries, as it can fire its flamers in combat as well. As catachan, on average 30-40 str 5 ap -1 auto hits, not to mention the other weapons. I may also add in pask and a tank commander too to help with long range anti tank.

**skchsan**

mikeownz wrote:
skchsan wrote:
p5freak wrote:

skchsan wrote:
You just have to charge the hellhounds and force them to fall back in order to shoot. Get them in a traffic jam and you win on objectives. There's only so much space on a 4x6 table to park 18 hellhounds.

Yes, please. Charge my overwatch autohitting 2D6 shots S6 AP-1 D1 vehicles.
Withstanding overwatch and forcing a fallback > allowing hellhounds to fire every turn.

This list has been presented at a major tourney and was beat exactly using this tactic.

How well did the list do overall though? If it got its ass beat every game then yea, I guess not so good. But I am ok with not subscribing to the, if you ain't first, you're last, mentality.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am thinking of a variant of this list, at least with a baneblade with 4 twin flamer on 4 sponsons. That way I am 100% ok if I get charged. If baneblade gets stuck in combat, no worries, as it can fire its flamers in combat as well. As catachan, on average 30-40 str 5 ap -1 auto hits, not to mention the other weapons. I may also add in pask and a tank commander too to help with long range anti tank.

He made it to top 8 table at 2018 LVO according to Spikeybits (so bring some salt as I have no actual data on hand). This only happened as the meta was focused on horde lists before the codex creep so YMMV now.

Don't get me wrong - this list definitely looks fun to play, but it's not an unbeatable, "AMASSED AUTOHIT S6 AP-1 SHOTS KILLS ALL, BEATS ALL" list.

I was merely saying that "this list has been presented before, and such and such weakness exists in the list". Seems like there was a bit of overreaction from some parties from that comment.

**mikeownz**

Ahh cool. Thanks for the response.

Top 8 is pretty great in my book, but everyone's book is different. Everyone has different goals.

Like you said, definitely not unbeatable. And if the meta has changed maybe its effectiveness has gone down a few notches.

I can see that there are flaws in this list that can be exploited by your opponent, depending on their skill level and what army they brought, but still looks fun to play and seems still pretty competitive.

**tneva82**

skchsan wrote:
p5freak wrote:

skchsan wrote:
You just have to charge the hellhounds and force them to fall back in order to shoot. Get them in a traffic jam and you win on objectives. There's only so much space on a 4x6 table to park 18 hellhounds.

Yes, please. Charge my overwatch autohitting 2D6 shots S6 AP-1 D1 vehicles.
Withstanding overwatch and forcing a fallback > allowing hellhounds to fire every turn.

This list has been presented at a major tourney and was beat exactly using this tactic.

Not sure how giving overwatch is better than being shot normally when it autohits anyway. Same number of hits. As IG I wouldn't be too worried about being forced to fall back as I got the shooting anyway. What I would be worried would be one unit eating overwatch from one hellhound but forcing like 2-4 hellhounds fall back by tagging them into close combat without charging them.

That and vehicle heavy armies not caring that much of flamers. Especially when shortish range makes hard to concentrate on enemy vehicles.

**skchsan**

tneva82 wrote:
skchsan wrote:
p5freak wrote:

skchsan wrote:
You just have to charge the hellhounds and force them to fall back in order to shoot. Get them in a traffic jam and you win on objectives. There's only so much space on a 4x6 table to park 18 hellhounds.

Yes, please. Charge my overwatch autohitting 2D6 shots S6 AP-1 D1 vehicles.
Withstanding overwatch and forcing a fallback > allowing hellhounds to fire every turn.

This list has been presented at a major tourney and was beat exactly using this tactic.

Not sure how giving overwatch is better than being shot normally when it autohits anyway. Same number of hits. As IG I wouldn't be too worried about being forced to fall back as I got the shooting anyway. What I would be worried would be one unit eating overwatch from one hellhound but forcing like 2-4 hellhounds fall back by tagging them into close combat without charging them.

That and vehicle heavy armies not caring that much of flamers. Especially when shortish range makes hard to concentrate on enemy vehicles.

Precisely. 1 rhino can potentially tie up 3 hellhounds adjacent to each other - which, on a table filled with reasonable amount of terrain, will happen often as the hellhounds are trying to get in range of things to shoot at. Tie that tactic up with jumppacks deepstriking behind the hellhounds to block their fall back route.

**TheMortician**

The list has some really good match-ups, but also some really bad match-ups. The problem is that the bad match-ups include Eldar/Dark Eldar (too much anti-tank, too much speed, too many flyers to hold the middle, too many minus-to-hit-modifiers) and IG/BA/IK (Smash Cptns and Knights love Hellhounds). What's winning tournaments? Eldar/Dark Eldar and IG/BA/IK. Yes you can win games, but its not a tournament list in the current meta.

Also, lots of armies have ways to ignore overwatch: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Blood Angels, GSC, even the Inquisition!

**necron99**

I do love the idea but yeah too easy to tie up with other vehicles. I guess the lascannons "could" be used to deal with most non-flyer vehicles. Have you considered putting track guards on them? Being able to move at full speed until it explodes is awesome. That's how I run mine. I do remember someone running 15 hellhounds before the rule of three came out and winning a tournament.

I'm pretty sure that the whole CP farm will be going away except for IG soon enough anyway

So there goes smash captains and knights will be less effective and might not be seen the closer you get to the top table. Against hard-to-hit armies you'll only have problems putting wounds on vehicles. You could always take a BA Smash captain battalion to help take out LOW models and other vehicles until the FAQ drops and the CP party is over.

**Dampyr Blackblade**

I've been thinking about this list and its weaknesses and I think I might have improved it a bit. What do you guys think?

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [34 PL, 548pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Cadian

+ HQ +

Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 219pts]: Lascannon
. Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon

Tank Commander [12 PL, 209pts]: Lascannon
. Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [44 PL, 693pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Cadian

+ HQ +

Tank Commander [12 PL, 209pts]: Lascannon
. Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon

Tank Commander [12 PL, 209pts]: Lascannon
. Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Heavy Support +

Leman Russ Conquerors [11 PL, 155pts]
. Leman Russ Conqueror: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Conqueror Battle Cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [56 PL, 759pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Astra Millitarum

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [18 PL, 243pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [18 PL, 243pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [18 PL, 243pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Bolter

++ Total: [134 PL, 2000pts] ++

**Valkyrie**

Free up some points and give your Hellhounds Track Guards,

**tjnorwoo**

I wonder how this would do vs the steel legion list I just posted considering they ignore AP -1

**skchsan**

tjnorwoo wrote:
I wonder how this would do vs the steel legion list I just posted considering they ignore AP -1

Wouldnt matter as its still autohit wound on 2+ against T3. Weight of dice will burninate through your steel legion - the -1 AP is just the sprinkles on a sundae.

**tneva82**

skchsan wrote:
tjnorwoo wrote:
I wonder how this would do vs the steel legion list I just posted considering they ignore AP -1
Wouldnt matter as its still autohit wound on 2+ against T3. Weight of dice will burninate through your steel legion - the -1 AP is just the sprinkles on a sundae.

Thing is most of his army isn't T3. Not in points certainly. And most of his T3 models are inside these T7 3+ ignores -1 metal boxes. And what's not inside those are inside T8 3+ save. So you are wounding them on 2+...How?

Did you even check what the list in question was? The word "steel legion" should btw have given hint it's NOT about infantry but vehicles. The goal isn't to survive on T3 5+ save that ignores -1. Goal is to survive with T7/8 3+(which ignores -1) with 10+ wounds(20 in case of T8 model) while pounding enemy with battlecannons and stormhammer main gun(d6 shots with basilisk type of rule and rerolling 1's to wound and S9).

I would be more worried about simply lack of wounds due to being vehicles that aren't knight caliber but going "oh I'm just burning your T3 5+ guys) is bit funny. Hell if you are firing those I think he's happy. He probably SHOULD put them to be flamed. So you spend turn or two firing 240 pts worth of IG troops. Woooooo! Scary. Meanwhile the real meat of 1760 pts of vehicles don't suffer damage and are pounding down on hellhounds.

That match won't be decided on hellhounds burning steel legion infantry(which are the T3 targets) but by whether hellhounds burn the steel legion vehicles first before those pound hellhounds to pieces. Now albeit that list is so light on AT that probably hellhounds win but that's got nothing to do with "I autohit and wound on 2+". You are actually wounding on 5+-

**Dampyr Blackblade**

tneva82 wrote:
skchsan wrote:
tjnorwoo wrote:
I wonder how this would do vs the steel legion list I just posted considering they ignore AP -1
Wouldnt matter as its still autohit wound on 2+ against T3. Weight of dice will burninate through your steel legion - the -1 AP is just the sprinkles on a sundae.

Thing is most of his army isn't T3. Not in points certainly. And most of his T3 models are inside these T7 3+ ignores -1 metal boxes. And what's not inside those are inside T8 3+ save. So you are wounding them on 2+...How?

Did you even check what the list in question was? The word "steel legion" should btw have given hint it's NOT about infantry but vehicles. The goal isn't to survive on T3 5+ save that ignores -1. Goal is to survive with T7/8 3+(which ignores -1) with 10+ wounds(20 in case of T8 model) while pounding enemy with battlecannons and stormhammer main gun(d6 shots with basilisk type of rule and rerolling 1's to wound and S9).

I would be more worried about simply lack of wounds due to being vehicles that aren't knight caliber but going "oh I'm just burning your T3 5+ guys) is bit funny. Hell if you are firing those I think he's happy. He probably SHOULD put them to be flamed. So you spend turn or two firing 240 pts worth of IG troops. Woooooo! Scary. Meanwhile the real meat of 1760 pts of vehicles don't suffer damage and are pounding down on hellhounds.

That match won't be decided on hellhounds burning steel legion infantry(which are the T3 targets) but by whether hellhounds burn the steel legion vehicles first before those pound hellhounds to pieces. Now albeit that list is so light on AT that probably hellhounds win but that's got nothing to do with "I autohit and wound on 2+". You are actually wounding on 5+-

Which is why in my list I put 5 Russes together with 9 Artemia HHounds! Not saying i'm sure of the outcome, but to be honest I think I do stand a chance!

**skchsan**

Oh that's my bad. I thought the AP ignore mechanic was for infantries as well.

**tjnorwoo**

tneva82 wrote:
skchsan wrote:
tjnorwoo wrote:
I wonder how this would do vs the steel legion list I just posted considering they ignore AP -1
Wouldnt matter as its still autohit wound on 2+ against T3. Weight of dice will burninate through your steel legion - the -1 AP is just the sprinkles on a sundae.

Thing is most of his army isn't T3. Not in points certainly. And most of his T3 models are inside these T7 3+ ignores -1 metal boxes. And what's not inside those are inside T8 3+ save. So you are wounding them on 2+...How?

Did you even check what the list in question was? The word "steel legion" should btw have given hint it's NOT about infantry but vehicles. The goal isn't to survive on T3 5+ save that ignores -1. Goal is to survive with T7/8 3+(which ignores -1) with 10+ wounds(20 in case of T8 model) while pounding enemy with battlecannons and stormhammer main gun(d6 shots with basilisk type of rule and rerolling 1's to wound and S9).

I would be more worried about simply lack of wounds due to being vehicles that aren't knight caliber but going "oh I'm just burning your T3 5+ guys) is bit funny. Hell if you are firing those I think he's happy. He probably SHOULD put them to be flamed. So you spend turn or two firing 240 pts worth of IG troops. Woooooo! Scary. Meanwhile the real meat of 1760 pts of vehicles don't suffer damage and are pounding down on hellhounds.

That match won't be decided on hellhounds burning steel legion infantry(which are the T3 targets) but by whether hellhounds burn the steel legion vehicles first before those pound hellhounds to pieces. Now albeit that list is so light on AT that probably hellhounds win but that's got nothing to do with "I autohit and wound on 2+". You are actually wounding on 5+-

Wow, thanks for the thorough response and for checking out my list! I'd be more worried about the mortal wounds when exploding than the flame shots. Otherwise, I'm fairly confident with an astropath and techpriest my stormhammer would be a tough nut to crack. I would have the 3 plasmagun/pistol squads in the crassus combining every turn so that when they popped out they'd be a 30 man squad with the steel legion strat and an order to reroll 1s to hit and wound... So you have that distraction to deal with or blowing up the stormhammer, hoping it'd distract my opponent from focusing fire.