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Hello,

I've read the rules but I've also learned to doubt what I read because writing non ambiguous rules is overrated.

Is it legal to get 2 shield drones on 3 battlesuit units, then add 3 units of shield drones in the fast attack department?

Any shield drone within 3" of a battlesuit can use the ability, even if they are shield drones of another unit?

Will the shield drones apply their 5+ feel no pain to the mortal wounds they receive from their ability?

Finally, say there are 2 drones within 3" and a lascannon rolls a 6, how many wounds can be passed to drones? Is the damage resolved one by one or can they take only two wounds with their ability?

Thank you very much!

 Findarfin wrote:
Hello,

I've read the rules but I've also learned to doubt what I read because writing non ambiguous rules is overrated.

Is it legal to get 2 shield drones on 3 battlesuit units, then add 3 units of shield drones in the fast attack department?

Any shield drone within 3" of a battlesuit can use the ability, even if they are shield drones of another unit?

Will the shield drones apply their 5+ feel no pain to the mortal wounds they receive from their ability?

Finally, say there are 2 drones within 3" and a lascannon rolls a 6, how many wounds can be passed to drones? Is the damage resolved one by one or can they take only two wounds with their ability?

Thank you very much!

1) If you're talking about the "Rule of 3" for Organised play, then no, that is not legal.

2) Correct.

3) Correct, that's the entire reason they were given the Ignore Wounds effect via Errata in the first place.

4) If you roll for damage it's too late for the shield drones to intercept it. You roll to intercept after you roll to wound but before you roll the damage. This means a single shield drone can theoretically turn a 9D6 damage weapon wound into a single mortal wound.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Findarfin wrote:
Hello,

I've read the rules but I've also learned to doubt what I read because writing non ambiguous rules is overrated.

Is it legal to get 2 shield drones on 3 battlesuit units, then add 3 units of shield drones in the fast attack department?

Any shield drone within 3" of a battlesuit can use the ability, even if they are shield drones of another unit?

Will the shield drones apply their 5+ feel no pain to the mortal wounds they receive from their ability?

Finally, say there are 2 drones within 3" and a lascannon rolls a 6, how many wounds can be passed to drones? Is the damage resolved one by one or can they take only two wounds with their ability?

Thank you very much!

1) If you're talking about the "Rule of 3" for Organised play, then no, that is not legal.

2) Correct.

3) Correct, that's the entire reason they were given the Ignore Wounds effect via Errata in the first place.

4) If you roll for damage it's too late for the shield drones to intercept it. You roll to intercept after you roll to wound but before you roll the damage. This means a single shield drone can theoretically turn a 9D6 damage weapon wound into a single mortal wound.

Thanks! So it is legal to create 3 units of shield drones in the fast attack slots, but then on the characters you must take different type of drones. Re-reading the faq it's actually quite clear.

They look very strong, but apparently I don't see them around much! What is their weakness? You can target them first?

Yes, you can target them first, and they screen characters so you HAVE to shoot them. They are easier to wound than the characters so you're better off shooting them first.

Not everyone agrees with BCB’s belief you count accompanying drones as standalone units for the purposes of Rule of Three, btw. I know he acts like the ultimate authority around here but it’s a situation the jury is out on. Personally, I believe the opposite, that accompanying drones do not count toward the Rule of Three. Not wishing to re-discuss it again (done to death in other threads if you search). The wording on some units supports this view (unit sizes, battlefield role, not a separate unit until deployed, etc.). Agree with your opponent how you’re treating this before you begin deploying to avoid any sad times.

Lest someone wish to get into a debate, don’t... just reference the other threads where this has been batted back and forth already!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Findarfin wrote:
Hello,

I've read the rules but I've also learned to doubt what I read because writing non ambiguous rules is overrated.

Is it legal to get 2 shield drones on 3 battlesuit units, then add 3 units of shield drones in the fast attack department?

Any shield drone within 3" of a battlesuit can use the ability, even if they are shield drones of another unit?

Will the shield drones apply their 5+ feel no pain to the mortal wounds they receive from their ability?

Finally, say there are 2 drones within 3" and a lascannon rolls a 6, how many wounds can be passed to drones? Is the damage resolved one by one or can they take only two wounds with their ability?

Thank you very much!

1) If you're talking about the "Rule of 3" for Organised play, then no, that is not legal.

2) Correct.

3) Correct, that's the entire reason they were given the Ignore Wounds effect via Errata in the first place.

4) If you roll for damage it's too late for the shield drones to intercept it. You roll to intercept after you roll to wound but before you roll the damage. This means a single shield drone can theoretically turn a 9D6 damage weapon wound into a single mortal wound.

I think you are wrong about the rule of three here.

The rule of three applies to each DataSheet. When you take shield drones with a Riptide, they are part of that Riptide's datasheet

Therefore you can take shield drones on the Riptides, and 3 units in Fast Attack

Mordian2016 wrote:
The rule of three applies to each DataSheet. When you take shield drones with a Riptide, they are part of that Riptide's datasheet

[Citation Needed]

Where do I find the rules for MV4 Shield Drones if not the Tactical Drones datasheet? If you're talking about the Shielded Missile Drones, then you'd be right. The Shield Drones form their own unit, using the Tactical Drones datasheet. Do I personally think it's stupid? Yes, but see my signature disclaimer.

In any case, I've discussed this to death in other threads so I'll leave it at that.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:
The rule of three applies to each DataSheet. When you take shield drones with a Riptide, they are part of that Riptide's datasheet

[Citation Needed]

Where do I find the rules for MV4 Shield Drones if not the Tactical Drones datasheet? If you're talking about the Shielded Missile Drones, then you'd be right. The Shield Drones form their own unit, using the Tactical Drones datasheet. Do I personally think it's stupid? Yes, but see my signature disclaimer.

In any case, I've discussed this to death in other threads so I'll leave it at that.

Incorrect. The rules for the MV4 Shield Drones are associated on the Riptide Datasheet.

Mordian2016 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Mordian2016 wrote:
The rule of three applies to each DataSheet. When you take shield drones with a Riptide, they are part of that Riptide's datasheet

[Citation Needed]

Where do I find the rules for MV4 Shield Drones if not the Tactical Drones datasheet? If you're talking about the Shielded Missile Drones, then you'd be right. The Shield Drones form their own unit, using the Tactical Drones datasheet. Do I personally think it's stupid? Yes, but see my signature disclaimer.

In any case, I've discussed this to death in other threads so I'll leave it at that.

Incorrect. The rules for the MV4 Shield Drones are associated on the Riptide Datasheet.

As above.

I believe you're still referring to index entries found on google to make your statement, BCB.

By extension of your logic, then taking ANY drones as a part of any battlesuits would result in under-strengthed units as min. size for drones are 4.

 skchsan wrote:
By extension of your logic, then taking ANY drones as a part of any battlesuits would result in under-strengthed units as min. size for drones are 4.

They would be under-sized, but you're given permission to take them as such.

Mordian2016 wrote:
Incorrect. The rules for the MV4 Shield Drones are associated on the Riptide Datasheet.

Also I don't know what codex you have but my one only has entries for Riptide Shas’vre and MV84 Shielded Missile Drone on the XV104 RIPTIDE BATTLESUIT datasheet.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
By extension of your logic, then taking ANY drones as a part of any battlesuits would result in under-strengthed units as min. size for drones are 4.

They would be under-sized, but you're given permission to take them as such.

Don't under-strengthed units need to be taken under a separate detachment under aux. support detachment?

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
By extension of your logic, then taking ANY drones as a part of any battlesuits would result in under-strengthed units as min. size for drones are 4.

They would be under-sized, but you're given permission to take them as such.

Don't under-strengthed units need to be taken under a separate detachment under aux. support detachment?

If you just want to take a random one, sure. You're given permission to do otherwise via the codex for accompanying drones.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
By extension of your logic, then taking ANY drones as a part of any battlesuits would result in under-strengthed units as min. size for drones are 4.

They would be under-sized, but you're given permission to take them as such.

Don't under-strengthed units need to be taken under a separate detachment under aux. support detachment?

If you just want to take a random one, sure. You're given permission to do otherwise via the codex for accompanying drones.

So, what you're saying is if you take drones as part of a battlesuit unit, it invokes the inclusion of the datasheet, but doesn't count as an under-strengthed unit?

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
By extension of your logic, then taking ANY drones as a part of any battlesuits would result in under-strengthed units as min. size for drones are 4.

They would be under-sized, but you're given permission to take them as such.

Don't under-strengthed units need to be taken under a separate detachment under aux. support detachment?

If you just want to take a random one, sure. You're given permission to do otherwise via the codex for accompanying drones.

So, what you're saying is if you take drones as part of a battlesuit unit, it invokes the inclusion of the datasheet, but doesn't count as an under-strengthed unit?

It does count as an under-strength unit. However you are given explicit permission to do so, despite the normal restriction that it must be in an auxiliary support detachment.

Also, nice invoking of the "So what you're saying is" meme. I didn't think anyone did that unironically anymore.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
By extension of your logic, then taking ANY drones as a part of any battlesuits would result in under-strengthed units as min. size for drones are 4.

They would be under-sized, but you're given permission to take them as such.

Don't under-strengthed units need to be taken under a separate detachment under aux. support detachment?

If you just want to take a random one, sure. You're given permission to do otherwise via the codex for accompanying drones.

So, what you're saying is if you take drones as part of a battlesuit unit, it invokes the inclusion of the datasheet, but doesn't count as an under-strengthed unit?

It does count as an under-strength unit. However you are given explicit permission to do so, despite the normal restriction that it must be in an auxiliary support detachment.

Also, nice invoking of the "So what you're saying is" meme. I didn't think anyone did that unironically anymore.

Well, strictly RAW, the beta rule of 3 only pertains to "including" datasheets in your army, not how many times you can "use" the datasheet, which is the wording found on the Tactical Drone datasheet. Using the datasheet, as in, referring to the Tactical Drones datasheet for reference when including them in a unit, is distinctively different than "including" the datasheets in your army.

 skchsan wrote:
Well, strictly RAW, the beta rule of 3 only pertains to "including" datasheets in your army, not how many times you can "use" the datasheet, which is the wording found on the Tactical Drone datasheet. Using the datasheet, as in, referring to the Tactical Drones datasheet for reference when including them in a unit, is distinctively different than "including" the datasheets in your army.

Can you tell me where this "Beta" rule of 3 is, because I can't find it.

The actual "Rule of 3" is NOT a beta rule and never has been, it's an errata to the Organised Play suggested limitations. Stop calling it a beta rule when it isn't.

Since you can't seem to even get that right, I will conclude our "debate" here. The RaW is clear, whether you agree with it or not.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Well, strictly RAW, the beta rule of 3 only pertains to "including" datasheets in your army, not how many times you can "use" the datasheet, which is the wording found on the Tactical Drone datasheet. Using the datasheet, as in, referring to the Tactical Drones datasheet for reference when including them in a unit, is distinctively different than "including" the datasheets in your army.

Can you tell me where this "Beta" rule of 3 is, because I can't find it.

The actual "Rule of 3" is NOT a beta rule and never has been, it's an errata to the Organised Play suggested limitations. Stop calling it a beta rule when it isn't.

Since you can't seem to even get that right, I will conclude our "debate" here. The RaW is clear, whether you agree with it or not.

My wrong doesn't make your wrong right.

There's nothing that explains that "using datasheet" is the same as "datasheet being included in your army."

To further clarify:

Tau Codex Page 88
ACCOMPANYING DRONES
Many T’au Empire datasheets allow units
to be accompanied by Drones. In such
instances, unless stated otherwise, all wargear
options only apply to the unit that is being
accompanied by Drones, and not to the
Drones themselves. After deployment, units
of accompanying Drones are treated as having
the Battlefield Role of the unit they accompany,
and are considered to have a Power Rating
of 0. Tactical Drones accompanying units use
their own datasheet (pg 109), while profiles,
wargear, abilities and keywords for other types
of accompanying Drones can be found on
their parent unit’s datasheet.

So the drones accompanying broadsides are of different datasheet (Tactical Drones of Fast Attack FOC Slot vs Tactical Drones of Heavy Support FOC Slot), just as World Eaters Khorne Berserkers are different datasheet entry as regular Khorne Berserkers despite having the same name.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

4) If you roll for damage it's too late for the shield drones to intercept it. You roll to intercept after you roll to wound but before you roll the damage. This means a single shield drone can theoretically turn a 9D6 damage weapon wound into a single mortal wound.

Slight clarification on this. You transfer the hit before you take any armour saves.

Cheers

Andrew

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Well, strictly RAW, the beta rule of 3 only pertains to "including" datasheets in your army, not how many times you can "use" the datasheet, which is the wording found on the Tactical Drone datasheet. Using the datasheet, as in, referring to the Tactical Drones datasheet for reference when including them in a unit, is distinctively different than "including" the datasheets in your army.

Can you tell me where this "Beta" rule of 3 is, because I can't find it.

The actual "Rule of 3" is NOT a beta rule and never has been, it's an errata to the Organised Play suggested limitations. Stop calling it a beta rule when it isn't.

Since you can't seem to even get that right, I will conclude our "debate" here. The RaW is clear, whether you agree with it or not.

You would figure since the two shield drones taken with say a riptide, they are deployed as one unit then become separate units after deployment you are using a riptide datasheet, or maybe a "riptide with shield drones" data sheet. If its the latter, there could be some stupid argument you can take 3 riptides without drones and 3 riptides with drones and still be within the rule of three.

Anyways since it is one unit when purchasing the unit during list building and they remain one unit all the way up until AFTER you deploy them, the drones are basically like wargear and you are using a riptide data sheet, it would be like saying you can't take more than three DS8 Tacical Support Turrets.

You can TECHNICALLY argue almost about anything in life with valid points and evidence, we are not some congress or parliament debating the meaning of some centuries old document nor are we some religious group trying to define ancient religious texts, this is just arguing for the sake of arguing, I don't think you will find any TO or opponent that will really disagree.

Q2) Do Tactical Drones that are taken as upgrades for certain T’au Empire units (e.g. XV8 Crisis Battlesuits, XV25 Stealth Battlesuits etc.) count as units for the purposes of the Organised Events guidelines, and so count towards the number of Tactical Drones units (i.e. the Fast Attack choice) I can include? A2) No.

Clarified through FAQ. Not as a SSF errata.

 skchsan wrote:
Q2) Do Tactical Drones that are taken as upgrades for certain T’au Empire units (e.g. XV8 Crisis Battlesuits, XV25 Stealth Battlesuits etc.) count as units for the purposes of the Organised Events guidelines, and so count towards the number of Tactical Drones units (i.e. the Fast Attack choice) I can include? A2) No.

Clarified through FAQ. Not as a SSF errata.

This is literally the definition of a Special Snowflake FAQ. Glad it has been sorted nonetheless.