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We had our first game of Kill Team last Saturday and some questions came up.

Can the 3" Consolidate move at the end of the Fight phase bring you into contact with new enemies?
That is to say, if an Ork Nob charges a Skitarii and cuts it down, can he move on to the Skitarii behind it at the end of the phase even though he didn't charge that particular model?

Can a Broken Kill Team still win a mission? I though I read somewhere that Broken teams automatically lose their chance of winning but can still fight on in order to break or wipe out their opponents.
I've searched for this rule in rulebook but I couldn't find it.

The Ork Deff Gun has a Damage characteristic of 2. How does this work in practice?
I roll D3 for the number of shots. I roll To Hit for each of those shots. I roll To Wound for each of those hits. My opponent makes his saving rolls and for every wound that gets through I inflict 2 wounds?
Or
I roll D3 for the number of shots. I roll To Hit for each of those shots. I roll To Wound for each of those hits. Every wound that gets through inflicts 2 wounds and my opponent gets to save for those?

 Arnizipal wrote:

Can the 3" Consolidate move at the end of the Fight phase bring you into contact with new enemies?
That is to say, if an Ork Nob charges a Skitarii and cuts it down, can he move on to the Skitarii behind it at the end of the phase even though he didn't charge that particular model?

Yup. You can't fight them that turn, but you can tie them up for the next, forcing them to either fight or fall back.

 Arnizipal wrote:

Can a Broken Kill Team still win a mission? I though I read somewhere that Broken teams automatically lose their chance of winning but can still fight on in order to break or wipe out their opponents.
I've searched for this rule in rulebook but I couldn't find it.

It depends on the mission. Some, if you break the game instantly ends. Others you take the broken penalty, but can still potentially win via VP or tabling the opponent.

 Arnizipal wrote:

The Ork Deff Gun has a Damage characteristic of 2. How does this work in practice?
I roll D3 for the number of shots. I roll To Hit for each of those shots. I roll To Wound for each of those hits. My opponent makes his saving rolls and for every wound that gets through I inflict 2 wounds?
Or
I roll D3 for the number of shots. I roll To Hit for each of those shots. I roll To Wound for each of those hits. Every wound that gets through inflicts 2 wounds and my opponent gets to save for those?

The former. You save versus wounds, not versus damage. Each wound that goes through would require two injury rolls (assuming 1 wound models of course).

Seems we played things mostly right then

Another question: Base size in pre-AoS Warhammer Fantasy was always very important.
A Goblin came on a smaller base than an Orc. This was important when lining up models to fight.

I noticed that the Burna Boyz and Loota Boyz in the Ork Kill Team box come on larger bases than the standard Ork Boy box I bought later on. In fact, those slotta-base Ork Boyz come on the same size bases as Gretchin.
Which one is correct?

Also, is range in Kill Team is determined base-to-base or model to model?
We played it base-to-base and on one occasion I got a hit on a Skitarii sniper because of the long oval base he's on. His body itself was out of range.

I'm fairly sure that the way it works is; Measuring is done from Base to Base, while determining line of sight and obscurement is done from the model.

A side note on that. You can draw LOS to a models body, but, and I could be wrong here, I believe it's either against the rules, or just a suggestion for fair play, to ignore the "pointy bits" for LOS. The tip of someones gun is the only thing visible, or a bit of a sword or spike should be disregarded. That's how my group has been playing thus far, and it's worked out well to avoid arguments and stupid things.

For base sizes, if a model is supplied with a base, that's the base you can use. Some space marines come on 32mm, and older ones on 28mm. Depends on the age of the kit. You can use either side, if you have the same kit, but they came with different sized bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm fairly sure that the way it works is; Measuring is done from Base to Base, while determining line of sight and obscurement is done from the model.

A side note on that. You can draw LOS to a models body, but, and I could be wrong here, I believe it's either against the rules, or just a suggestion for fair play, to ignore the "pointy bits" for LOS. The tip of someones gun is the only thing visible, or a bit of a sword or spike should be disregarded. That's how my group has been playing thus far, and it's worked out well to avoid arguments and stupid things.

For base sizes, if a model is supplied with a base, that's the base you can use. Some space marines come on 32mm, and older ones on 28mm. Depends on the age of the kit. You can use either side, if you have the same kit, but they came with different sized bases.

 Thadin wrote:


A side note on that. You can draw LOS to a models body, but, and I could be wrong here, I believe it's either against the rules, or just a suggestion for fair play, to ignore the "pointy bits" for LOS. The tip of someones gun is the only thing visible, or a bit of a sword or spike should be disregarded. That's how my group has been playing thus far, and it's worked out well to avoid arguments and stupid things.

To the contrary: LOS exists if any part of the target model is visible from any part of the attacking model. See the "Range and Visibility" paragraph on p. 28. Conversely, when checking "obscured" status, you only take into account the models' "main body." See "Obscured" on p. 30.

Each wound that goes through would require two injury rolls (assuming 1 wound models of course).

Not quite true. If reduced to zero wounds by a damage 2 weapon, you make two injury rolls and pick (only) the worst.

You never make more than one injury roll (albeit sometimes on multiple dice) for a given weapon shooting at you.

That's the big weakness of (say) a Frag Cannon - yes, 2D6 shots that hit automatically at high strength and decent AP, but no matter what you do it's still only 1D6 on the injury table.


It's:

~ Roll for number of shots
~ Split fire around the initial target if you have multiple shots
~ Roll to hit for each shot
~ Roll to wound for each hit
~ Roll to save each successful roll to wound
~ Each failed save becomes 2 wounds (Damage 2)
~ Roll to prevent wounds with stuff like disgustingly resiliant
~ Reduce model's wounds by wounds inflicted
~ If reduced to 0 wounds, make 1 injury check on dice equal to damage characteristic, picking the worst result.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Arnizipal wrote:

Can the 3" Consolidate move at the end of the Fight phase bring you into contact with new enemies?
That is to say, if an Ork Nob charges a Skitarii and cuts it down, can he move on to the Skitarii behind it at the end of the phase even though he didn't charge that particular model?

Yup. You can't fight them that turn, but you can tie them up for the next, forcing them to either fight or fall back.

Have thought on this some more.
Since the Fall Back move is only 3", what is stopping me from charging him again the next Movement phase?
Seems like a bit of a pointless action to take...

 Arnizipal wrote:

Have thought on this some more.
Since the Fall Back move is only 3", what is stopping me from charging him again the next Movement phase?
Seems like a bit of a pointless action to take...

Initiative. If they win initiative on the next turn then they get to move before you can charge, giving them the opportunity to move even further away before you can charge again.

Falling back also lets other members of your team shoot the enemy model. He can’t charge if he’s dead.

ikeulhu wrote:

 Arnizipal wrote:

Have thought on this some more.
Since the Fall Back move is only 3", what is stopping me from charging him again the next Movement phase?
Seems like a bit of a pointless action to take...

Initiative. If they win initiative on the next turn then they get to move before you can charge, giving them the opportunity to move even further away before you can charge again.

Nostromodamus wrote:Falling back also lets other members of your team shoot the enemy model. He can’t charge if he’s dead.

So it would go like this then:

I charge the first Skitarii warrior with my Ork. The Skitarii fires overwatch but fails to kill the Ork.
In the Fight Phase the Ork cuts down the Skitarii and uses his consolidate move to get into base contact with the next Skitarii.
End of turn.

Now there are two possibilities.
My opponent rolls highest for Initiative and falls back with the Skitarii in the Movement Phase.
In the very same Movement Phase I charge him again with the same Ork.
Since he is only 3" away my charge automatically succeeds and the Skitarii can't fire Overwatch because he already moved.

or

I roll highest for Initiative, which means the Ork is still within 1" of the Skitarii and can't move.
In the same Movement Phase the Skitarii Falls Back, allowing his friends to shoot at the Ork in the Shooting Phase.
Depending on who gets the Initiative in the next turn the Skitarii might be able to run away further or get charged by the Ork (provided he survived the Shooting Phase).

Did I understand that correctly?

You can not charge if you started the turn within 1" of an enemy. So if they fall back before your move the unit that they fell back from can not charge until the next turn.

Also Fall Back is full movement, you are confusing it with Retreat, which is 3"

 Arnizipal wrote:

ikeulhu wrote:

 Arnizipal wrote:

Have thought on this some more.
Since the Fall Back move is only 3", what is stopping me from charging him again the next Movement phase?
Seems like a bit of a pointless action to take...

Initiative. If they win initiative on the next turn then they get to move before you can charge, giving them the opportunity to move even further away before you can charge again.

Nostromodamus wrote:Falling back also lets other members of your team shoot the enemy model. He can’t charge if he’s dead.

So it would go like this then:

I charge the first Skitarii warrior with my Ork. The Skitarii fires overwatch but fails to kill the Ork.
In the Fight Phase the Ork cuts down the Skitarii and uses his consolidate move to get into base contact with the next Skitarii.
End of turn.

Now there are two possibilities.
My opponent rolls highest for Initiative and falls back with the Skitarii in the Movement Phase.
In the very same Movement Phase I charge him again with the same Ork.
Since he is only 3" away my charge automatically succeeds and the Skitarii can't fire Overwatch because he already moved.

or

I roll highest for Initiative, which means the Ork is still within 1" of the Skitarii and can't move.
In the same Movement Phase the Skitarii Falls Back, allowing his friends to shoot at the Ork in the Shooting Phase.
Depending on who gets the Initiative in the next turn the Skitarii might be able to run away further or get charged by the Ork (provided he survived the Shooting Phase).

Did I understand that correctly?

You missed the fact that if the Skitarii you consolidated into has not yet fought in that Fight Phase, they can strike at the Ork.

You can fail a 3" charge by rolling a 2, which would prevent you from getting within 1" of the enemy model, not that it matters because you can't charge in that turn anyway because you started the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy.

You also have the option to Fall Back yourself if you win initiative, to allow other models to shoot at the Skitarii.

ikeulhu wrote:You can not charge if you started the turn within 1" of an enemy. So if they fall back before your move the unit that they fell back from can not charge until the next turn.

Also Fall Back is full movement, you are confusing it with Retreat, which is 3"

MadSpy wrote:You missed the fact that if the Skitarii you consolidated into has not yet fought in that Fight Phase, they can strike at the Ork.

You can fail a 3" charge by rolling a 2, which would prevent you from getting within 1" of the enemy model, not that it matters because you can't charge in that turn anyway because you started the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy.

You also have the option to Fall Back yourself if you win initiative, to allow other models to shoot at the Skitarii.

Ah, that explains it.
Thanks!

Wait im a little confused. Dont have the rules available so. cant check but heres my confusion, correct me please!

But if the skitari has fallen back, when the ork activates its not within 1”. Does the rules really state ”start of movement phase” and not ”begin its activation”?

Soulless wrote:
Wait im a little confused. Dont have the rules available so. cant check but heres my confusion, correct me please!

But if the skitari has fallen back, when the ork activates its not within 1”. Does the rules really state ”start of movement phase” and not ”begin its activation”?

Indeed.

Soulless wrote:
Wait im a little confused. Dont have the rules available so. cant check but heres my confusion, correct me please!

But if the skitari has fallen back, when the ork activates its not within 1”. Does the rules really state ”start of movement phase” and not ”begin its activation”?

Had a closer look at the rules, and it indeed says you can charge if there is no enemy within 1" at the moment you activate the model.
So you can in fact chase after a model that has fallen back. However, since the fall back move is a regular full move, there is a better chance that model will get away.

 Arnizipal wrote:

Soulless wrote:
Wait im a little confused. Dont have the rules available so. cant check but heres my confusion, correct me please!

But if the skitari has fallen back, when the ork activates its not within 1”. Does the rules really state ”start of movement phase” and not ”begin its activation”?

Had a closer look at the rules, and it indeed says you can charge if there is no enemy within 1" at the moment you activate the model.
So you can in fact chase after a model that has fallen back. However, since the fall back move is a regular full move, there is a better chance that model will get away.

The FAQ has now cleared up that you can't initiate a charge if you start the phase within 1" of an enemy (no matter if this enemy falls back later in the phase).

Some more questions:
Is it possible to outfit a Nob with both a Kombi weapon and a Powerklaw?
The Kombi weapon on the sprue seems to require both hands so I doesn't seem very logical that it can be combined with a Klaw.

If a model takes position at the top of a ladder, does it prevent the model from being charged from below (since enemies can't come within 1" of it)?

Is it possible to outfit a Nob with both a Kombi weapon and a Powerklaw?
The Kombi weapon on the sprue seems to require both hands so I doesn't seem very logical that it can be combined with a Klaw.

The datasheet says that you can, so you can. It doesn't really matter that you can't actually model it.

If a model takes position at the top of a ladder, does it prevent the model from being charged from below (since enemies can't come within 1" of it)?

Personally, I would have no problem in allowing my opponent to charge and place the model adjacent to the charged model. I would say that refusing charges like this is a bit WAAC. However, you are technically correct.

I would consider it more common sense than WAAC really

That said, common sense would probably have no place here.
For example, according to the designer notes you can charge a model you can't see.

 Arnizipal wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Arnizipal wrote:

Can the 3" Consolidate move at the end of the Fight phase bring you into contact with new enemies?
That is to say, if an Ork Nob charges a Skitarii and cuts it down, can he move on to the Skitarii behind it at the end of the phase even though he didn't charge that particular model?

Yup. You can't fight them that turn, but you can tie them up for the next, forcing them to either fight or fall back.

Have thought on this some more.
Since the Fall Back move is only 3", what is stopping me from charging him again the next Movement phase?
Seems like a bit of a pointless action to take...

You're not wrong.

Since the FAQ, you never ever EVER want to consolidate into a new enemy model under pretty much any circumstances. The only reason I can possibly think of is to silence a scary ranged weapon for a turn like a frag cannon or something like that. Fall Back in Kill Team is massively, stupidly buffed from Fall Back in normal 40k, because if an enemy Falls Back from your model YOU STILL COUNT AS BEING IN MELEE because all that matters is that you were within 1" "at the beginning of the movement phase."

So, lets say my genestealer mulches a dude, then piles into a guardsman. Not only does that guardsman get to swing at me, like in normal 40k, the next turn, the Guard player wins initiative and falls back, my Genestealer then has two choices. Either A, remain stationary, or B, fall back. He's standing alone in the middle of an open field with that guardsman maybe 2" away from him, and he has to "fall back."

You've always been able to charge a model you can't see, in both 40k and Kill Team.

MadSpy wrote:
You've always been able to charge a model you can't see, in both 40k and Kill Team.

I'm new to Kill Team and 40K
Im a long time Fantasy player. In that game you can't hurt things you can't see (except by magic).

Consolidation is much more of an objective denial tool in Kill Team. Blocking off lines of movement with smart terrain usage is absolutely critical on some missions.

Had a match where a well-timed consolidation into a doorway kept four GSC cultists from an easy objective win.

Sterling191 wrote:
Consolidation is much more of an objective denial tool in Kill Team. Blocking off lines of movement with smart terrain usage is absolutely critical on some missions.

Had a match where a well-timed consolidation into a doorway kept four GSC cultists from an easy objective win.

This is a great way to use consolidation. I've also used it to get a lictor around a corner where he was properly obscured from nasty fire. Don't use it to 'get in the fight' use it for positioning and placement. Think about where you want to be at the beginning of the next turn.