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So I got to thinking about AoS and my old collection. I had a pretty decent pile o' toys. I kinda miss em.

Since it's so bloody impossible to look at AoS stuff on the GW website, tell me about...

Chaos Warriors/Slaves to Darkness

Vampire Counts, specifically their original old world stuff like grave guard and the like.

Empire/Brettonia.

I never played the game before or after AoS but I like a nice army and if it ever hits the table I kinda like it to work. Not super comp, just wanna win a few games and have cool models. Not really a fan of these new Xbox hueg things either.

I kinda like Chaos Warriors since they seem easy to collect, a couple boxes of warriors and a box of cavalry, and maybe some marauders?

Sell me on AoS, explain this crazyness!

Hey, maybe this is why no one plays AoS?

Nobody has anything at all to say about any of the armies I mentioned?

For what it's worth, anyone wanting to know anything about AoS should head on over to 1d4chan/tactics. Much less BS for the AoS tactics than the 40k, probably because no one cares to get into an edit-war about it!

Anyways, I picked Slaves to Darkness but Beastmen are still catching my eye. Something about cows going to war seems hilarious...

Do you mean game play or background?

If the latter - lot of good stuff here:

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vampires_in_the_Mortal_Realms#Lands_of_the_undead

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Soulblight

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos#Mortal_Realms

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorne_Bloodbound

The GW website is a bit of a mess yes!

Empire/Bretonnia are mostly dead in the water at present. A lot of what holds AoS back right now are the utterly mad ideas from its beginning - when it was clear that GW management was treating it like a boutique line of models without any sensible rules and where I suspect the plan then was to steadily cut the range and release big models every so often but generally not support armies any more.


THAT is all over now and AoS is taking things far more seriously and sensibly again. It's 2.0 release is almost its 1.0 in many ways.

That said there are still a lot of legacy issues with how things are displayed and shown to customers; esp on the website. The Beasts of Chaos are a good recent example of how GW is steadily cleaning things up as they take the myriad of little armies and put them together once more and release some new stuff alongside. In AoS there IS a Cow-Level and it comes with a Bulls Horns atop to gore your enemies!


That said I don't collect Chaos to be able to tell you much about them as to how they function or collect (I'm invested into Daughters of Khaine). Dakka is more dominantly a 40K community so there's a heavier bias here toward that over Fantasy/AoS.



Slaves to Darkness don't have a Battletome (codex) of their own so you'll want to get a hold of the Generals Handbook 2018 for updates to their rules (many of their warscrolls are on the product pages and also in the Warscroll builder on the GW Community website). Chaos also has some nifty ways in which it works with the alliance structure, but I'd let a chaos player talk about that.
In general within each Grand Alliance are a myriad of sub-alliances. So not necessarily every force can take every other force within a Grand Alliance as a proper ally. The limits are stated in their army profile (Generals Handbook or Battletome); and ontop of tht you can only take a limited number of allies per point threshhold - at 1K its 200 points; at 2K its 400points.

I don't know how well Slaves stand right now; in general the newer battletomes are doing better, but those without depend a lot on how diverse their army is. Slaves is pretty diverse so should do well - some others have only one or two models to their name and thus tend to be far poorer in performance.

Not a big AOS community on Dakka it seems. Though the game is quite popular and growing. Typical GW nonsense though. There are forgotten armies and lots of bad balance.

STD are a forgotten type army. Best if played as part of another armies rules in a soup style situation. Archeon - the most powerful villain in the story - is a piece of overpriced garbage.

It's not that they are forgotten its that AoS has not had the big Codex release year that 40K has just enjoyed during which GW pumped out nearly the entire range (as well as several new factions). And whilst GW is kind of dragging their heels a bit with the last handful of codex it does seem that by Christmas the entire current line of 40k models will have an up to date codex.

AoS needs a year like 40K has had to update their lines and get the house in order. It might take a bit more than a year as a lot of bits need armies not just a Battletome; but I wager even just a year as the prime focus would do wonders for cleaning up AOS

How about the Age of Sigmar app? Have you looked into that? It's free and it has all the stats for minis and terrain on it. While the allegiance rules are not in there the stats are. You can go to the web site which I forget at the moment for the point costs.

So you should be able to look in there if the GW website is causing issues for you. Not sure how it is bad but I keep reading people have issues with it.

Hope this helps.

Davor wrote:

So you should be able to look in there if the GW website is causing issues for you. Not sure how it is bad but I keep reading people have issues with it.

The issues for AoS from most people are that they are not clear what is a proper army and what isn't as well as where the rules are. In 40K each tab is an army and each army has a codex or a listed index if its still waiting for its codex. Clear and simple.

In AoS this isn't present and sub-faction armies don't even have a listing of the indexed book(s) that they are in if they don't have a Battletome yet. Many are also so small that its clear they could only work with allies and yet there's no website display of who is allied with who within the Grand Alliances.

Right now its a bit of a mess to work out what you can and can't get for each army - its a bit more work. GW is steadily cleaning it up bu its going to take time; esp as they appear to only clean things up when the items they are sorting out are getting a new battletome release

There we go dakka, that's better!

Erm, I'm not sure I want to bother with the lore anymore. The Old World blew up, there are Realms now. I'm okay right there with that. No explanation needed! Let's just collect some cool armies and maybe throw some dice.

I might have to give that app a try, just because the website is so bad for AoS stuff.

I started with Island of Blood about 4 years ago??? Always wanted to try Beastmen, but never got around to it. I really like the sticker price on those infantry blocks...


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Also the idea of building a herd stone seems really fun.

It’s only been out for THREE *%#%€+* YEARS!!

Give GW time they will make it good!!!

 darkcloak wrote:
There we go dakka, that's better!

Erm, I'm not sure I want to bother with the lore anymore. The Old World blew up, there are Realms now. I'm okay right there with that. No explanation needed! Let's just collect some cool armies and maybe throw some dice.

I might have to give that app a try, just because the website is so bad for AoS stuff.

I started with Island of Blood about 4 years ago??? Always wanted to try Beastmen, but never got around to it. I really like the sticker price on those infantry blocks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the idea of building a herd stone seems really fun.

Would you kindly dial down a bit? Like, you could try being a bit less obnoxious.

Now, for actual advice. I would hold a bit on beastmen. Their start collecting is coming out soon. And you're likely to want to, one for a cygor and one for a gorghon, all while getting 20 gors and ungors and 2 shamans, which is almost 1k points. get another set of ungors and you can hit the 1k treshold for 150 euros at full msrp.

By hold on he means until this weekend where its expected that the Getting Started - along with the Beasts of Chaos Battletome and models and all - goes on pre-sale. So you can pre-order it from GW or likely any good 3rd party stockist.



@Pancakey yep but a portion of that time was under the old Kirby setup AoS had a stalled start to its life that its taken time to recover from. I think that its right now on a good path way and if GW give it the same support 40K has had then it will really fly through the updates.

I've got a slaves to darkness army. Not really that happy with it on the tabletop. They seem to lack the synergy that other armies have right now, and have no ranged options. You can give your units mark of khorne and bring in some khorne buffing units as allies but then i felt like why don't i just play a real khorne army - they have lots of nice looking new models.
StD's main gimmick is that their heroes have auras and all get to roll on a bonus table if they slay another hero, oddly most the StD heroes themselves have 'kill enemy hero' type abilities on their own rule sheets too. this makes the army very one dimension and unreliable as you can imagine. If you play against someone with few heroes or kept well out of melee range at the back then you don't get to use these powers.

I've heard people have success with pure cavalry armies but its just not my style.

Strangely Gamesworkshop released a new darkoath model during the malign portents story event early this year so people were predicting a big StD update with a new range but nothing happened. Overall i'm happy with how my models look i just wish they performed a bit better, i enjoy using them in a fun setting but against competitive list players ill likely get stomped. I don't see why archaon and the varanguard are their own separate faction either...

Lord Kragan wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
There we go dakka, that's better!

Erm, I'm not sure I want to bother with the lore anymore. The Old World blew up, there are Realms now. I'm okay right there with that. No explanation needed! Let's just collect some cool armies and maybe throw some dice.

I might have to give that app a try, just because the website is so bad for AoS stuff.

I started with Island of Blood about 4 years ago??? Always wanted to try Beastmen, but never got around to it. I really like the sticker price on those infantry blocks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the idea of building a herd stone seems really fun.

Would you kindly dial down a bit? Like, you could try being a bit less obnoxious.

Now, for actual advice. I would hold a bit on beastmen. Their start collecting is coming out soon. And you're likely to want to, one for a cygor and one for a gorghon, all while getting 20 gors and ungors and 2 shamans, which is almost 1k points. get another set of ungors and you can hit the 1k treshold for 150 euros at full msrp.

Um, yeah not really sure why that's necessary but whatever. I guess I'm obnoxious?

Anyways, an SC box eh? Well I am a big fan of those for 40k maybe I will hold off then. Still, a few Gors couldn't hurt...

It's funny, I really haven't been effected by AoS very much. I'm still looking at the same armies and it's still kind of an equal pull in each direction. Looking at Beastmen stuff and I happen to look at Moon Grots, still love those minis too!

Sadly I am even less sure of what army I actually want now...




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Pancakey wrote:
It’s only been out for THREE *%#%€+* YEARS!!

Give GW time they will make it good!!!

What? Really? Ugh, comes with age I guess. I could have googled that too, but again that's how old I am! I'd rather ballpark it and guess!

I think by obnoxious he means your attitude to the game we enjoy. You come in hot with "I guess I'll try this gak game for the feth of it. Why not right? Oh and the awesome immersive lore you guys love thats all gak. Old world > mortal realms anyways. winds of magic = realms thats cool i guess, that's all I need LOL"

What army do you like the aesthetic of the most? StD are not very competetive at the moment, but should be getting an update with archaon in a battletome sometime soonish..called everchosen. Vampire counts are now Legions of nagash... unless you have lots of vampires, vargheists and zombies which are "soulblight". Legions of Nagash are quite strong at the moment. Empire doesnt have a battletome, but their are some broken builds. Especially when allied with Stormcast characters like the Lord Ordinator. Beastmen look quite fun and strong with a brand new battletome.

Lord Kragan wrote:

Spoiler:

 darkcloak wrote:
There we go dakka, that's better!

Erm, I'm not sure I want to bother with the lore anymore. The Old World blew up, there are Realms now. I'm okay right there with that. No explanation needed! Let's just collect some cool armies and maybe throw some dice.

I might have to give that app a try, just because the website is so bad for AoS stuff.

I started with Island of Blood about 4 years ago??? Always wanted to try Beastmen, but never got around to it. I really like the sticker price on those infantry blocks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the idea of building a herd stone seems really fun.

Would you kindly dial down a bit? Like, you could try being a bit less obnoxious.

How was he obnoxious? He didn't want to get in a debate about lore be it good or bad, but wanted to play with awesome miniatures and have fun.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I think by obnoxious he means your attitude to the game we enjoy. You come in hot with "I guess I'll try this gak game for the feth of it. Why not right? Oh and the awesome immersive lore you guys love thats all gak. Old world > mortal realms anyways. winds of magic = realms thats cool i guess, that's all I need LOL"

What army do you like the aesthetic of the most? StD are not very competetive at the moment, but should be getting an update with archaon in a battletome sometime soonish..called everchosen. Vampire counts are now Legions of nagash... unless you have lots of vampires, vargheists and zombies which are "soulblight". Legions of Nagash are quite strong at the moment. Empire doesnt have a battletome, but their are some broken builds. Especially when allied with Stormcast characters like the Lord Ordinator. Beastmen look quite fun and strong with a brand new battletome.

Oh yeah no, I'm a face value guy. Just take me at that and you'll never wonder what the hell I'm on about.

If I do seem a little 'feth it' it's purely my own attitude I'm saying that to! I didn't like the whole end time thing and it felt a little like I missed the boat. Had all these cool models and suddenly the game just does a 180, put me off the game. When I got back into the hobby I said okay, only 40k. But now I'm looking at AoS again, without the defeatist attitude and I'm realizing I still enjoy all the armies I liked before and there really isn't any reason to not at least collect them. So here I am, harrassing the AoS crowd! Sorry, my volume is broken.

Anyways, that is really cool that Beastmen are getting an update and I think that sells it for me. The only question I have is whether or not a guy should load up on the current line right now. I love the Gors, all types, but Centigors I just can't justify at $78. So should I go out and buy some Gors while they're cheap or should I wait and see what actually happens with the update? I mean, thanks for the input about StD, but I'm going to take the plunge with beasties first. Maybe I'll look into Slaves once they get a 2.0 book.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I think by obnoxious he means your attitude to the game we enjoy.

You think wrong. I was refering to his "spoonfeed me!" attitude and latter "why aren't you spoonfeeding me!?" comment. Sure, the organization doesn't seem neat to someone un-initiated but it takes about five minutes to take a look at the site and see thte units warscrolls. And it's not like he cannot access the points via warscroll builder or doesn't know the faction names of things like StoD, just search it in the site and find it, or search death as a whole, given that's its virtually vampire counts only plus nighthaunt (which again it's vampire counts' ghostly heroes expanded) and nagash/arkhan.

Uf you like the models pick up some Chaos Warriors or Knights. If you go Beastmen you can ally them in np, if StD gets a major release later in the year, as is expected, you can go full bore.
Seems you're more into "i wanna grab some minis", that's the way to go. If you're decided on the beasts wait a week and profit.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I think by obnoxious he means your attitude to the game we enjoy.

You think wrong. I was refering to his "spoonfeed me!" attitude and latter "why aren't you spoonfeeding me!?" comment. Sure, the organization doesn't seem neat to someone un-initiated but it takes about five minutes to take a look at the site and see thte units warscrolls. And it's not like he cannot access the points via warscroll builder or doesn't know the faction names of things like StoD, just search it in the site and find it, or search depath as a whole, given that's its virtually vampire counts only plus nighthaunt (which again it's vampire counts' ghostly heroes expanded) and nagash/arkhan.

I don't usually rip on someone on a forum, but when I do I always check my spelling.

You had some good advice about Beastmen, and now looky that. Some new Beasts of Chaos stuff. So that's cool.

It's a forum, we're here to ask questions and discuss things. I can look at warscrolls all day, but if I don't have a point of reference it's a waste of time. Keep up the spoon comments though. That's their word too by the way. Just say S-word next time.

 darkcloak wrote:
Hey, maybe this is why no one plays AoS?

Nobody has anything at all to say about any of the armies I mentioned?

For what it's worth, anyone wanting to know anything about AoS should head on over to 1d4chan/tactics. Much less BS for the AoS tactics than the 40k, probably because no one cares to get into an edit-war about it!

Anyways, I picked Slaves to Darkness but Beastmen are still catching my eye. Something about cows going to war seems hilarious...

Lots play AoS, its very popular, just no on likes Dakka Dakka for AoS, you need to go to a dedicated AoS forum.

I'd go to TGA, which is a decent place. It's not for trolls and attention seeking though. You might be told to actually do a bit of reading for example

TGA = The Grand Alliance forums (for those who don't know). Probably one of the bigger/active places for AoS chatter.

The Grand Alliance Forum (TGA) is a better place to ask.

GW will make the game great after the next update, FAQ, battletome, codex, edition or whatever.

If you just want to play a fantasy wargame, check out Frost Grave or Kings of War.

Thebiggesthat wrote:
I'd go to TGA, which is a decent place. It's not for trolls and attention seeking though. You might be told to actually do a bit of reading for example

Indeed. And probably by forum noobs no less too I'd imagine.

Is this seriously what passes for a forum community around here? I come here with legitimate questions and get told to "go read"? And at another forum.

So please, tell me again why I would be inclined to play AoS when I get shamed for asking simple questions about the game and told to go elsewhere? Hmmm? Any answer at all?

Some people had some decent replies and to them, thank you. The rest can kiss my Herdstone.

Cheers!

Relevant questions:

Is there anyone in your area / gaming group who you can play against?

What sort of games do you enjoy? AOS has quite a large element of finding and using synergies - so if that appeals it will be a good game for you, there are quite a few people who enjoy working out what units boost others and how they will interact on the battlefield and then trying to make that a reality whilst their opponent does the same.

I have also found that (with undead at least) the army feels like undead with the summoning and restoration abilities.

 darkcloak wrote:

Is this seriously what passes for a forum community around here? I come here with legitimate questions and get told to "go read"? And at another forum.

I recommend other forums to people all the time when there's another forum that has a community more focused on a specific interest. Heck I mod on a photography forum and when someone joins who is asking about how to build custom microscrope objectives into a high magnification setup I've no issue telling them to head to the photomacrography forums because they are focused around that subject. It's just that some forums build social groups focused on certain things - Dakka is very much focused on 40K. Which is not bad nor good its just how it is and whilst there are many fantasy fans here, there are "more" on a site dedicated to fantasy. The reverse is also true, if someone were after 40K advice on TGA chances are they'd get some good answers there and some would also say "hey try out Dakka too (or The Hive if they were after Tyranid advice)


It's not kicking you out of Dakka; its saying Dakka is good, but here's another site where you can get more focused and likely more concentrated freedback. Or heck just go read their threads as they'll likely have threads that cover topics your interested in - like sections dedicated to the new Beasts of Chaos faction that you're interested in.

Overread, thanks for the explanation but I wasn't bristling at your comments or anyone else who had a legitimate suggestion. But so far I've been called an obnoxious, attention seeking troll. For asking about a game that I used to play and enjoy quite a bit.


Instead of getting mad about that I think I'll just ignore those opinions and the ones voicing them. If anyone dislikes my attitude I suggest they do the same.

To wrap this topic up, I think if you're wondering about an AoS army to start your best bet is still actually to ask on dakka. Any salt encountered is probably just residue from the Old World going splat and should dust off without much trouble.


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Mr. Morden, no I don't personally know any other gamers but there is a decent store that is going to be running some campaigns and the like. They're in the process of moving to a new location in the next few weeks so I've at least got some time to assemble and paint my new beasties.

 darkcloak wrote:
To wrap this topic up, I think if you're wondering about an AoS army to start your best bet is still actually to ask on dakka. Any salt encountered is probably just residue from the Old World going splat and should dust off without much trouble. .

I can't completely agree. One should also be checking in with their local scene. If you love the rats, but 2/3 of the population are Skaven players... And sometimes seeing a model in reality can make the difference between pass and buy. The Bullgors are like that in that the models aren't bad, but the team painting the initial models didn't favor them very well for the box.

For me its very rare to see a model painted up or in pictures that is then a pass in reality. The only times it sort of gets like that are more when the model is very small and its clear that the paint job is top rate to achieve the effect.


I do agree that there are certainly times where a model can appear boring, dull or just bad in photos; but turns out way better once its really in your hands.