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So another thread got me thinking about the whole Space Marines being squatted theory. Some people think it's going to happen, some don't. I'm not sure which camp I'm in but it does see like something is gonna happen either now or far in the future. That's not what I want to debate. This is a what-if scenario.

Let's pretend for a moment that the SM line is going to be redone and the plan is to simply upscale the old kits to make them look better alongside Primaris models. Perhaps they are only a smidgen smaller than P-Marines, but have proportional bodies and limbs.

Would you be willing to buy such a thing? Keep in mind this wouldn't be the first time GW upscaled a line.


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I voted yes because I like the look of the old Marines and I want them to stick around and not get squatted, so I would vote with my wallet and replace my old Marines.

Mind you, the only real SM model I still own is a Terminator Chaplain!

Depends on the models and the price.

I have hundreds of Marines of all shapes and sizes which I use together. I am not that bothered about it really as as with my other armies i figure they are not all the same height and bulk

Never ever! I have put a lot of effort assembling and completely painting my SM & CSM force. Why should I do it all over again for the same army?! Nice ploy GW but I am not falling for it. Only a total moron would endeavour such a thought or someone with an unhealthy fetish for Uber-Marines.

I already shelved my extensively converted marine army for Primaris, so sure. And I've done it once before, when I shelved my 2nd ed era Dark Angel army for a force made out of then new multipart models.

And most other people would too, even if they say here that they wouldn't. You don't see many Rogue Trader beakies or 2nd ed era models around these days, people have upgraded and they would again.

Though I'd prefer if they just got rid of the distinction between Primaris and non-primaris. In setting that is going to happen anyway. There probably has been very few non-Primaris marines made in last hundred years, and there was even talk about the upgrade process. Just give all marines the Primaris stats and models to match.

I do wonder about people's hatred for the new primaris.

I mean yes, sure, it's new models and more money to spend, so I can see why people are annoyed by it. And from a fluff perspective I can see why some of the... more excitable tgs might be a bit upset.

But then you get the threads like "Space Marine units are worthless/overpriced these are the changes they need", which all seem to suggest that space marine troops require +1 wound and stronger weaponry and things like that.

So basically, become primaris. Which might be GW's long term goal. But instead of just deleting normal marines entirely and making everyones current collections unplayable, they're doing a gradual shift.

Makes sense to me, anyway. As a new chaos player, I'll probably try and buy Primaris for any CSM/Cult units I play, just in preparation for the time when Chaos get their own primaris.

Which unfortunately will probably be in 20 years time, going by GWs usual update schedule for anything non-imperial.

Primaris berzerkers though, could look good.

Niiru wrote:

But then you get the threads like "Space Marine units are worthless/overpriced these are the changes they need", which all seem to suggest that space marine troops require +1 wound and stronger weaponry and things like that.

So basically, become primaris.

Yeah, that's absolutely hilarious!

No, I would not rebuy my existing armies in the event the range is someday up-scaled. That of course doesn't preclude me making yet another army though....

Niiru wrote:

I do wonder about people's hatred for the new primaris.

I mean yes, sure, it's new models and more money to spend, so I can see why people are annoyed by it. And from a fluff perspective I can see why some of the... more excitable tgs might be a bit upset.

But then you get the threads like "Space Marine units are worthless/overpriced these are the changes they need", which all seem to suggest that space marine troops require +1 wound and stronger weaponry and things like that.

So basically, become primaris. Which might be GW's long term goal. But instead of just deleting normal marines entirely and making everyones current collections unplayable, they're doing a gradual shift.

Makes sense to me, anyway. As a new chaos player, I'll probably try and buy Primaris for any CSM/Cult units I play, just in preparation for the time when Chaos get their own primaris.

Which unfortunately will probably be in 20 years time, going by GWs usual update schedule for anything non-imperial.

Primaris berzerkers though, could look good.

I hate them because the background is boring and the least interesting way they could have taken the story line. The Models are cool looking for the most part but i'm not buying something if I don't like it's story.

Nope. It would cost me way too much to get the models and repainting everything sounds like a bit of a chore. Plus since Primaris and such I find myself moving away from the Imperium in general. Which is something of a loss for GW as I was considering starting Scions and Skitarii army.

If the new models were both affordable and had better hair than current SW models then I'd consider a slow replacing of my army.

If they had better hair?!

Lol!

Oh my. Have an exalt.

I'd be fine with them upscaling the marine line, if the alternative is phasing it out.

My main issue with Primaris (aside from the fluff) is that they're different from the marine aesthetic that I know and love. The Mk X power armour is OK, but I'm not fond of the various other units (Aggressors, Inceptors etc.) and I loathe the vehicles. But I love the look of the classic armour marks, terminators, rhino chassis, land raiders etc. I hate the thought that all of that could disappear in favour of the new things.

I probably wouldn't update my Salamanders army to use it - but there's plenty of marine chapters that I've been tempted to make an army of over the years. Truescaled classic marine force of Lamenters, Sons of Orar or Angels of Vigilance? Go on then.

It all depends on whether they'll look good with my current models or not, because I'm not replacing my current models any time soon. Possibly never.

There are many other factions of 40k I could spend my money on rather than rebuilding my Space Marine army. I've got Tyranids, Chaos and some Eldar now, so there's plenty of better opportunity cost than simply replacing models I currently have.

Nope, but that's simply because my current CSM renegades are built on normal old plastic scale. No need to change after 5500 points.

Nope for me unless they were going for a buck or two a model ( which wouldn't happen). I am not replacing the 500+ I have of various flavors at 4 or 5 dollars a pop. If they came 10 to a box, had all the customization of the space wolf kit at 15 or 20 bucks, I would do it slowly over time sure. But I don't mind the old models and buying junk ones off eBay and cleaning them up works quite well.

I don’t see how they could do it. Primaris scale tactical marines are basically what Intercessors are already. They would have to just cut tactical marines, essentially.

But to answer the hypothetical: sure, I would. Not all at once, but Primaris models have way better proportions than old marines do.

If "old" marines continued in a larger scale (aka being true scale) but retain all the proper fluff and gear of standard marines then sure I would get them.

Would I replace my old marines with upscaled marines? Hell to the zoggin no. Put way too much time, effort, and love into making my marines and im not going to let GW's size creep toss them aside.

Considering old marines will be relegated to index only (if not completely squatted) come 9th edition, it's a moot point. Plenty of guides on how to Tru-scale convert yourself.

11th edition I think you mean.

Have considered getting a small force of Primaris Deathwatch as allies, but just doing them up as a regular tactical squad. Intercessors with a helblaster in one combat squad, and 'heavy bolter' inceptor who provides covering fire while they fall back.

Maybe a Dread and some Reiver scouts, couple of characters for boosts.

Few headswaps and they're pretend movie marines.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Considering old marines will be relegated to index only (if not completely squatted) come 9th edition, it's a moot point. Plenty of guides on how to Tru-scale convert yourself.

it won';t b e by 9th edition, jesus man, Primaris Marines have a grand total of 5 squad types, 2 vehicles and the useal mix of HQs (notably they lack tech marines, very odd considering they where reared on Mars and we completely lack a plastic tech marine model) compare this with vanilla marines which, ignoreing the snowflake chapters have like.. 75 seperate units. it'll be a decade or more before it happens. IF it happens.

I know this is a what if situation, but it wouldn't be the first time GW has done something similar. If you look at the AoS Chaos Warriors, the Slaves to Darkness ones that first came out in WHFB 6th ed, they completely replaced and upgraded most of the then Chaos line.

I do not see GW doing it with the more modern plastic though. But we might see some size creep in regular marines as they in turn get eventually new models.

If GW replaced the Space Marine line overnight with these new bigger ones, would I shelve my existing models and replace with the new models? No, I can't afford GW stuff as it is. But if I had the disposable cash and prices that I had in the late 90's then yes, it wouldn't be the first time. They can join my monopose Empire halberdiers, my squatting Chaos Warriors, and my 2nd Ed Space Marines.

Replace? No. Buy new? Sure, there's more than a few chapters I like anyways, I'll just use those upscaled Marines for one of them.

Honestly, if all we did was update Marines as is into yet bigger models (something we just got a couple editions ago), that wouldn't get me into the army. Now if they made them look like the Primaris and sold them like that I might as I actually like painting the Primaris (I wasn't a fan of painting the older models, even the update, I think it was a lack of edges on legs leading to the models looking a lot more flat in those places unlike the edges given by the Primaris front armour on the legs, plus the posing wasn't as interesting as the new kids in my book) I might do it, but likely only if we got something like the Primaris: a tactical throwback to the legion stuff I dig, but with new models I actually enjoy painting.

Basically, regardless if you like the lore or not (I think it works pretty okay) the way Primaris play and the way they look helped sell me on getting back into Marines for the first time in three editions and frankly as done more for my interest in a Marine army than just making regular Marines even bigger (again).

 Crimson wrote:

Niiru wrote:

But then you get the threads like "Space Marine units are worthless/overpriced these are the changes they need", which all seem to suggest that space marine troops require +1 wound and stronger weaponry and things like that.

So basically, become primaris.

Yeah, that's absolutely hilarious!

Well, for me the deal breaker is the lack of special weapons. I was all on board the primaris train till I found that out. But now the divide between primaris and old is just stupid and should be done away with. "gradual" shifts were not needed. Just be like "this is the new tact squad kit", "marines are now tougher across the board", and "older models are perfectly legit models, so don't feel pressured to replace them"
But here we are in limbo.

Dandelion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Niiru wrote:

But then you get the threads like "Space Marine units are worthless/overpriced these are the changes they need", which all seem to suggest that space marine troops require +1 wound and stronger weaponry and things like that.

So basically, become primaris.

Yeah, that's absolutely hilarious!

Well, for me the deal breaker is the lack of special weapons. I was all on board the primaris train till I found that out. But now the divide between primaris and old is just stupid and should be done away with. "gradual" shifts were not needed. Just be like "this is the new tact squad kit", "marines are now tougher across the board", and "older models are perfectly legit models, so don't feel pressured to replace them"
But here we are in limbo.

GW has tried the whole "here's a new box of tacticals plus a couple extra weapons" back in 6th when Gravis came out. I don't think it really worked the way GW meant for it to. The existing Marine line was pretty tapped out in ways it could go, and redoing outdated models doesn't make them money the way new stuff does.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Dandelion wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Niiru wrote:

But then you get the threads like "Space Marine units are worthless/overpriced these are the changes they need", which all seem to suggest that space marine troops require +1 wound and stronger weaponry and things like that.

So basically, become primaris.

Yeah, that's absolutely hilarious!

Well, for me the deal breaker is the lack of special weapons. I was all on board the primaris train till I found that out. But now the divide between primaris and old is just stupid and should be done away with. "gradual" shifts were not needed. Just be like "this is the new tact squad kit", "marines are now tougher across the board", and "older models are perfectly legit models, so don't feel pressured to replace them"
But here we are in limbo.

GW has tried the whole "here's a new box of tacticals plus a couple extra weapons" back in 6th when Gravis came out. I don't think it really worked the way GW meant for it to. The existing Marine line was pretty tapped out in ways it could go, and redoing outdated models doesn't make them money the way new stuff does.

that said if the old school marines are still selling, I doubt GW'll get ridda them. my guess is GW'll be happy to double dip as long as possiable

 ClockworkZion wrote:

GW has tried the whole "here's a new box of tacticals plus a couple extra weapons" back in 6th when Gravis came out. I don't think it really worked the way GW meant for it to. The existing Marine line was pretty tapped out in ways it could go, and redoing outdated models doesn't make them money the way new stuff does.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but it's not just "a new tact kit" that I wanted, it's "new tacts with more wounds, more attacks and bigger and better proportioned models". Primaris infantry look much better than the old tact kit and have the proper in-game stats to feel like super soldiers. but no special weapons...

In any case, Primaris has driven me away from marines entirely since the whole old vs new division is arbitrary and messy. I can't invest in primaris now since I don't like how they are organized, and I can't invest in old marines since they feel flimsy game-wise and likely won't last as a range.

And let's be real, all the old tact kits have been exactly the same size since 3rd ed. My marines from the old dark eldar vs marines box set are the exact same size as the tacts I got last year. Meanwhile, dark eldar got a whole range revamp.

BrianDavion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Considering old marines will be relegated to index only (if not completely squatted) come 9th edition, it's a moot point. Plenty of guides on how to Tru-scale convert yourself.

it won';t b e by 9th edition, jesus man, Primaris Marines have a grand total of 5 squad types, 2 vehicles and the useal mix of HQs (notably they lack tech marines, very odd considering they where reared on Mars and we completely lack a plastic tech marine model) compare this with vanilla marines which, ignoreing the snowflake chapters have like.. 75 seperate units. it'll be a decade or more before it happens. IF it happens.

Agreed. Codex: Space Marines has 14 Primaris units out of 85, and Codex: Space Wolves includes regular SM units that haven't been available to Space Wolves before as well as the new Primaris units. If GW are encouraging SW players to buy new regular SM units then I don't see any particular push to phase them out. Over time they may improve the models sure, but I can't see GW squatting their most popular army and alienating their largest player base. As others have said on this thread, Primaris address some of the criticisms of the regular SM models and statline. By stating that Primaris are reinforcements alongside regular SM, GW are trying to keep everyone happy and offer SM players a choice. Would I buy new regular SM models? Sure. Would I replace my existing units? No.

If my alternative Mk armors and FW weapon kits get the same treatment, 100% I would.

My RT Marines are just fine, thanks. Anyone complaining they are too small will be told they are simply further away than they appear.

Given the success of Primaris marines I'd guess the answer is fairly obvious. Its also an unnecessary question - Primaris are, for all intents and purposes, upscaled Marines.