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Yes I did it. I spent stupid money on the Bretonnian Battalion set. I can't help it. I am not even crazy about Knights or really what fluff I have read, but I liked the Man-at-arms, and the bowmen with the spikes in front of them. And honestly, the Knight on the box cover is pretty inspirational.

The box contents are a little misleading: 1 Pegasus Knight (who will be my general), 8 Knights, 20 Man at Arms, and 16 Bowmen. However, you need the command models to actually make 20 man at arms and the 16 bowmen, which kinda worried me as I really wanted to make 2 units of 10 man at arms with all the command goods, as well as have command models for my unit of 10 bowmen, but I figured out how I can do it. I actually can use one of the bowmen as my Champion, and then use a leftover banner from the Knights (came with 2) for the bowmen standard. The command sprue (2 sprues come in the set) includes 4 figures including a model for a man at arms champion, bowmen champion, standard bearer, and musician, who comes with options for a drummer and a bugle. Since there are two sprues, I have enough for 3 musicians. Then the last two bodies will be my man at arms champions. Actually, I will have an extra couple of man at arms if I do this, so I will make a couple of them champions, and use a left over champion model to make a Paladin on foot!

Sweet Jesus I am good.

I have been trying to make army lists using the Ravening Hordes, but are having trouble deciding on the Knights. I guess I am doing Knights of the Realm. I have also decided on 6 of them. The problem is can't figure out the lance rules for them. I looked at the Army book for a better explanation, but they changed it up to something that makes more sense. I prefer the army book one, but not sure if using that formation would be kosher using Raven Hordes army lists. The Knights are better than I thought. I guess I was looking at older sprues online and just figured they would be kind of lame. Even the horses are nice.

I am not really into all the vows or whatever stuff the various Knights can get in the Army book. Maybe some day, but I just don't care that much. To be honest I like the models more than I do the fluff. They don't get them in Ravening Hordes and thats easier on me.

All I need is a damsel I think. Will pick that up soon. Will post my 700 point army list and my expanded 1000 point one shortly. Speaking of the 1000 point I almost forgot.

I do need another unit, and I was thinking of Squires. The problem is that in the Army book that are mounted Yoeman and in that book I would only need 5 to make a unit, but in Ravening Hordes I need 10! I do not want 10 mounted squires. Especially since I don't see any plastics for them, and its going to be pricey buying metal ones off ebay. And I do like the idea of having some gakky calvary, but not that many. I imagine some of you would say go for more Knights, but the minimum I would want is 6 and not sure I can squeeze that many into my list. Plus I am sure they will cost a lot, and I have spent a lot as it is, so if I were to spend more money, I prefer it be on models I don't already have.


Not my favorite army, but the checkbox is checked and I am happy to have them. More for the line troops though. I do think Empire Knights are cooler.

Oh, lots of extra bits like the Wood Elf battalion set came with to give the models character. I will enjoy putting these together.

That must have been painful.

How about telling us what you are after, could have given you some more options.

https://www.momminiaturas.com/miniaturas-fantasia/hijos-del-león/

MOM Miniaturas are good for the spearman blocks and the trebuchet. Note the trebuchet model is BIG, not out of scale just larger than most. Real trebuchets are tall and bulky, the model here conveys that well.

https://fireforge-games.com/fantasy-15

FireForge are making a whole Bretonnian army in plastic. Note that the fantasy miniatures are differently scaled from the historicals.

KTG17 wrote:
Yes I did it. I spent stupid money on the Bretonnian Battalion set. I can't help it. I am not even crazy about Knights or really what fluff I have read, but I liked the Man-at-arms, and the bowmen with the spikes in front of them. And honestly, the Knight on the box cover is pretty inspirational.

I prefer the older 5th edition models mostly for Bretonnia, but there are some nice pieces in the infantry command sprue.

KTG17 wrote:

The box contents are a little misleading: 1 Pegasus Knight (who will be my general), 8 Knights, 20 Man at Arms, and 16 Bowmen.

That's the latter kit, the previous one was very similar but gave you three Pegasus Knights.

KTG17 wrote:

However, you need the command models to actually make 20 man at arms and the 16 bowmen, which kinda worried me as I really wanted to make 2 units of 10 man at arms with all the command goods, as well as have command models for my unit of 10 bowmen, but I figured out how I can do it.

Dont play conversion schenanigans with this kit, unless you really know what you are doing. Men at arms are worthless in penny packet units. Take the block of 20. Deploy the bowmen as one unit also, you dont have enough for two. I would use them as skirmish archers and buy 5th edition monopose archers for your main archer blocks. They are relatively cheap even now.
Forget going cheap on archers, they already are cheap but need numbers to do anything. S3 is no good for dribble firepower, but 30" longbows at IIRC 6pts a model and BS3 adds up nicely.

KTG17 wrote:

I actually can use one of the bowmen as my Champion, and then use a leftover banner from the Knights (came with 2) for the bowmen standard.

I wouldnt try a have a go lets make do Bretonnian army. As these models are expensive its best to do it properly. Try and source the extra command group, you take already taken the price plunge.

KTG17 wrote:

I have been trying to make army lists using the Ravening Hordes, but are having trouble deciding on the Knights. I guess I am doing Knights of the Realm. I have also decided on 6 of them.

The knights you have make Knights of the Realm or Knights Errant. Make knights of the Realm as you will need them. hey are the only mandatory unit in WHFB.

KTG17 wrote:

The problem is can't figure out the lance rules for them. I looked at the Army book for a better explanation, but they changed it up to something that makes more sense. I prefer the army book one, but not sure if using that formation would be kosher using Raven Hordes army lists. The Knights are better than I thought. I guess I was looking at older sprues online and just figured they would be kind of lame. Even the horses are nice.

6 is a good number, in early 5th/Ravening hordes you assemble the knights in a triangle 1 in front two behind then three behind them. Later they used a 3 wide column formation. To make it simple they will get full ranks and they will all attack.

KTG17 wrote:

I am not really into all the vows or whatever stuff the various Knights can get in the Army book. Maybe some day, but I just don't care that much. To be honest I like the models more than I do the fluff. They don't get them in Ravening Hordes and thats easier on me.

Vows kept them coompetitive, or more accurately less uncompetitive.

All I need is a damsel I think. Will pick that up soon. Will post my 700 point army list and my expanded 1000 point one shortly. Speaking of the 1000 point I almost forgot.

KTG17 wrote:

I do need another unit, and I was thinking of Squires. The problem is that in the Army book that are mounted Yoeman and in that book I would only need 5 to make a unit, but in Ravening Hordes I need 10! I do not want 10 mounted squires. Especially since I don't see any plastics for them, and its going to be pricey buying metal ones off ebay. And I do like the idea of having some gakky calvary, but not that many. I imagine some of you would say go for more Knights, but the minimum I would want is 6 and not sure I can squeeze that many into my list. Plus I am sure they will cost a lot, and I have spent a lot as it is, so if I were to spend more money, I prefer it be on models I don't already have.

Get more Pegasus knights if you can. A unit of four will do you well.

In 6th (and later) a BSB is also mandatory for Bretonnians.

KTG17 wrote:

Not my favorite army, but the checkbox is checked and I am happy to have them. More for the line troops though. I do think Empire Knights are cooler.

Oh, lots of extra bits like the Wood Elf battalion set came with to give the models character. I will enjoy putting these together.

Its a reasonable beginning, but Bretonnians are a horde army, like Skaven you can't have just a handful of them and expect them to work.

Unless you are set on GW Pegasus Knights, Fireforge produces them as well.
Albion's Knights on Pegasus

While I see you are building your various armies for the edition of WHFB that used Ravening Hordes, Mantic Games also has a rank & file FB game called Kings of War, and you can try the rules for free. Your Lizards, Chaos, and Bretonnians would all have a home, although you would have to buy an expansion rulebook as they are not in the main book.
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html

The metal Mounted Yeomen look very different in style to the plastic Bretonnians, so you could use historicals instead?

For a mounted Yeoman I think conquest games mounted Normans with arms and heads from the archers kit do well enough. Fireforge Heads would probably work better, but their heads connect differently so you would need to do more converting there.

Mounted yeomen are 5th edition sculpts, and the aesthetic of that edition was to make historical miniatures in heroic scale with odd fantasy elements tacked on like the hippogryph.

If memory serves, Pegasus Knights didn't exist until the 6th Army Book so they wouldn't be an option in a Ravening Hordes list. There was also a midline Army List that ran in White Dwarf and was also reprinted in Warhammer Annual 2002 that was a nice middle ground between Hordes and the Book.

As far as what to add, Squires are decent Fast Cavalry, but I'd first sink the money into a BSB. THEN I'd maybe either throw in more Archers or try to find Men-at-Arms with Spears.

Yeah in RH the only options for Pegasus are as mounts for characters. Its a very restricted list all in all and might be worth skipping straight to the army book where the lance makes sense, you get the blessing of the lady to help against shooting and new units (Pegasus knights, Reliquary and Trebuchet) the questing knights moving to special is also good though you have to take at least one unit of Knights of the Realm and two characters (general and BSB).

The OP is sticking with Ravening Hordes for now, so it'd be best if he stayed the course. Once he starts playing and getting a handle on the game, THEN he can go to the Army Books. Makes for a more balanced game that way.

Modelling up Bretonnians to fit Ravening Hordes is a short term solution, you might use the booklet as a short term rules solution that you can swap out, but conversons done to armies last longer, and with Brets you cant afford to reinvest.

Luckily in this instance 6th army book is valid for 6th and all later editions. Use the army book now, and all falls into place later. For 700pt lists dont field the pegasus knights

Well, the more I look at these guys, the more I dislike them!

Mainly because I do not think they belong in the warhammer universe. They are just essentially historic minis with a mythical pegasus and a wizard here and there. Whenever I look at them, I feel like I am just looking at a medieval army for any historic gaming system. Oddly enough I don't feel this way about the Empire tho.

Anyway, I picked up 5 mounted squires off eBay over the weekend. Got them used and they will require a lot of cleanup. Even though RH says I need 10, I am just doing 5. I actually don't have the points for 10 anyway.

I am building 700 point armies first, then expanding them to 1000. With 700 I don't have the points to use the Pegasus, but will have a leftover Knight to make a mounted Paladin. I will just save the Pegasus for my 1000 point expanded army.

700 Points:

* Paladin with Heavy Armor, Shield, Warhorse, Boarding, and Potion Sacre (105)
* Wizard with Talisman of Protection (75)
* 6 Knights of the Realm with Champion, Musician, Standard (207)
* 10 Man-at-Arms with Halberds, Light Armor, Shields, Champion, Musician, Standard (100)
* 10 Man-at-Arms with Halberds, Light Armor, Shields, Champion, Musician, Standard (100)
* 10 Bowmen with Champion, Musician, Standard (110)
= 697

Or I can replace one of the Man-at-Arms with 5 Squires with Spears, Bows, Shields, Warhorses, Champion, Musician, Standard for 135, so losing the Potion and Talisman it would put me at 702, which is higher than my limit.

But for 1000 I can leave the original list as is, add the Squires, then add my Paladin mounted on a Pegasus with Heavy Armor, Shield, Lance, Sword of Might, and Talisman of Protection for 165 points with would put me at 997. Hate to spend all that on the Pegasus Paladin, but I figured he would be busy. Maybe I'll shift some points to the wizard.

I do not like these guys enough to get any other pricier units. For as much as I paid for the Battalion, its probably my least favorite one yet.

BTW, I do love all the little bits that come in the set. there is even a little snail. I guess thats a french thing? Bretonnians seem like the French to the Empire which feels British. Maybe that's why its included I don't know. Anyway, anyone know of any good Bretonnian model pics that show all these things being used? Most pics I seem to leave these little things out.

Empire is very German, based very closely on mid to late 15th century Holy Roman Empire. Bretonnia is Arthurian Britain mixed with medieval France and Norman England.

There are specifically English units such as the longbowmen, though the 5th edition sculpts looked like longbowmen the 6th edition sculpts were downtrodden peasant archers, which was more of a Norman or French feel.

That being said 5th also had not-Robin Hood and his not-Merry Men as a special character unit.

 Orlanth wrote:
Empire is very German, based very closely on mid to late 15th century Holy Roman Empire. Bretonnia is Arthurian Britain mixed with medieval France and Norman England.

There are specifically English units such as the longbowmen, though the 5th edition sculpts looked like longbowmen the 6th edition sculpts were downtrodden peasant archers, which was more of a Norman or French feel.

That being said 5th also had not-Robin Hood and his not-Merry Men as a special character unit.

Ah ok. Makes sense then. I do see the Holy Roman Empire-ish to the Empire now... makes sense with the cannon and all. I do think GW did a nice job with them 6th edition onwards. Although, the last models they made kind of over did it with all the feathers. But I like the flamboyant models.

Were the Bretonnians on their way out before the end of WFB? I don't see an 8th rulebook for them.

KTG17 wrote:
Well, the more I look at these guys, the more I dislike them!

Mainly because I do not think they belong in the warhammer universe. They are just essentially historic minis with a mythical pegasus and a wizard here and there. Whenever I look at them, I feel like I am just looking at a medieval army for any historic gaming system. Oddly enough I don't feel this way about the Empire tho.

You've got the bug pretty bad if you are even buying into armies you don't like!

Brets lack a lot of the wide array of options that other armies have and few of those options have a distinctly fantasy feel just as you say. If you were restricting yourself to one human army the Empire are far more interesting, just on the variety of options. Brets are pretty cool though and more versatile than you might think. They might not have a dazzling array of options but they do have all the major force types covered with what few options they do have:
- Heavy horse
- Light horse
- Melee infantry
- Ranged infantry
- Skirmishers
- Artillery
- Monsters (hypogriff)
- Flying units
- Magic users
Some armies with more options completely lack some of these force types: skaven have no cavalry or flyers, chaos warriors have no ranged infantry, dwarfs have no cavalry nor magic users.

They were an also ran faction, and frankly always were.

GW needed more than one old world human faction fleshed out. Bretonnia stayed. they were not in danger of being squatted.

Had WHFB continued I am certain the Bret would have got a new army book and new kits.

Probably two new plastic kits. One a large platform the size of the plastic Screaming Bell/Altar of Khaine for the Reliquae, I think it would have assembly options for something else, most likely the trebuchet.

Some sort of foot knight option would also have been necessary due to 8th, though lance rules would also have evolved to keep up. Possibly denying steadfast.

Knight models themselves need not have changed.

Point is if you do Wood Elves Brets are not far behind. Normally the two armies go more or less together. Shortly as Wood elves the End Times began instead.

KTG17 wrote:
Well, the more I look at these guys, the more I dislike them! ....

.....They are just essentially historic minis with a mythical pegasus and a wizard here and there. Whenever I look at them, I feel like I am just looking at a medieval army for any historic gaming system. ...

Funny, that is what I like about them.

Yeah, same. I liked that WHFB mostly had ordinary dudes with ordinary equipment fighting alongside the rare mythical beast.

What do people think of the fan made 8th ed update for Bretonnia?

https://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.com/2012/04/warhammer-bretonnia-unofficial-8th-ed.html

 SolarCross wrote:
What do people think of the fan made 8th ed update for Bretonnia?

https://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.com/2012/04/warhammer-bretonnia-unofficial-8th-ed.html

Its ok, it contains a lot of decent stuff, and has the crucial include of foot knights. It does not however have peasant crossbowmen, the other necessary include.

I think hippogryph knights are woefully underpriced. I would cost them at 100pts minimum, likely more.

I’m a huge fan of Bretonnians and in my humble opinion, they are one of the best looking armies when all painted up. That being said, unless there is some reason you need to stick with the Ravening Hordes list, I’d just spend the money and pick up the 6th edition army book. It not only makes them more playable, but opens up the other units you can use like Pegasus knights, and trebuchets. The lance formation also makes a lot more sense with than the old 5th edition lance.

Not only that but the horses rank up differently. You will need to pose the horses differently ans either tuck their tails left or right for the newer lance formation, for ols lance formation the tails need to be straight backwards.

Likewise you will not be able to couch the lances at an angle with the old lance formation, or they wont rank up. This will not matter if you only pose lances upright.

For all manner of reasons a Ravening Hordes Bretonnian army is a bad idea. Just use the army book, its 'future proofed' through to end of WHFB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 StygianBeach wrote:

KTG17 wrote:
Well, the more I look at these guys, the more I dislike them! ....

.....They are just essentially historic minis with a mythical pegasus and a wizard here and there. Whenever I look at them, I feel like I am just looking at a medieval army for any historic gaming system. ...

Funny, that is what I like about them.

I concur, though latter models did follow the grimdark fantasy cliche more.

Wolflord Patrick wrote:I’m a huge fan of Bretonnians and in my humble opinion, they are one of the best looking armies when all painted up. That being said, unless there is some reason you need to stick with the Ravening Hordes list, I’d just spend the money and pick up the 6th edition army book. It not only makes them more playable, but opens up the other units you can use like Pegasus knights, and trebuchets. The lance formation also makes a lot more sense with than the old 5th edition lance.

Orlanth wrote:Not only that but the horses rank up differently. You will need to pose the horses differently ans either tuck their tails left or right for the newer lance formation, for ols lance formation the tails need to be straight backwards.

Likewise you will not be able to couch the lances at an angle with the old lance formation, or they wont rank up. This will not matter if you only pose lances upright.

For all manner of reasons a Ravening Hordes Bretonnian army is a bad idea. Just use the army book, its 'future proofed' through to end of WHFB.

Alright, I guess since I've been keeping up with what KTG has been doing since he kicked this whole thing off that I'll be the one to reiterate where he is on his gaming and collecting.

First: he had chosen 700 point armies initially as he had the last three WFB starter sets as the basis for his collection of minis, and that gave him forces around 700 points

Second: he read ALL of those rule books and decided that 6th is what he's playing, and that 6th is what he will be hosting at his house as far as getting new players for a group. Orlanth, take note of that part. You've either lightly tapped the "play 8th" drum or shot it with a howitzer, depending on where you've responded. the OP didn't make this choice at a whim, it was thought out. Any discussion on "future proofing" is irrelevant as the OP has no clear intention to play any later editions.

Third: he chose Ravening Hordes as it's the most internally AND externally balanced army lists you could get for WFB, and it's also easier for him to teach off of those lists as there's less clutter, special rules or wonk balance issues to deal with than with the books.

Fourth: even if he DOES decide to move on to the Army Books, none of the RH lists became invalidated with the move to Army Books, It's still safe for him to build lists from that era. He's already been exposed to the difference between Glade Guard and Glade Guard, so he's aware of any challenges he'll have to face.


THAT being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least peruse through the Army Books so as to figure out if anything major is different, or if weapon options are changed in some cases. You've already seen this in your Wood Elves, so realizing that Questing Knights switched to Great Weapons for some stupid reason in the Army Book would help you make a decision about how to arm them, or if you plan on simply skipping them.

 Just Tony wrote:

Wolflord Patrick wrote:I’m a huge fan of Bretonnians and in my humble opinion, they are one of the best looking armies when all painted up. That being said, unless there is some reason you need to stick with the Ravening Hordes list, I’d just spend the money and pick up the 6th edition army book. It not only makes them more playable, but opens up the other units you can use like Pegasus knights, and trebuchets. The lance formation also makes a lot more sense with than the old 5th edition lance.

Orlanth wrote:Not only that but the horses rank up differently. You will need to pose the horses differently ans either tuck their tails left or right for the newer lance formation, for ols lance formation the tails need to be straight backwards.

Likewise you will not be able to couch the lances at an angle with the old lance formation, or they wont rank up. This will not matter if you only pose lances upright.

For all manner of reasons a Ravening Hordes Bretonnian army is a bad idea. Just use the army book, its 'future proofed' through to end of WHFB.

Alright, I guess since I've been keeping up with what KTG has been doing since he kicked this whole thing off that I'll be the one to reiterate where he is on his gaming and collecting.

First: he had chosen 700 point armies initially as he had the last three WFB starter sets as the basis for his collection of minis, and that gave him forces around 700 points

Second: he read ALL of those rule books and decided that 6th is what he's playing, and that 6th is what he will be hosting at his house as far as getting new players for a group. Orlanth, take note of that part. You've either lightly tapped the "play 8th" drum or shot it with a howitzer, depending on where you've responded. the OP didn't make this choice at a whim, it was thought out. Any discussion on "future proofing" is irrelevant as the OP has no clear intention to play any later editions.

Third: he chose Ravening Hordes as it's the most internally AND externally balanced army lists you could get for WFB, and it's also easier for him to teach off of those lists as there's less clutter, special rules or wonk balance issues to deal with than with the books.

Fourth: even if he DOES decide to move on to the Army Books, none of the RH lists became invalidated with the move to Army Books, It's still safe for him to build lists from that era. He's already been exposed to the difference between Glade Guard and Glade Guard, so he's aware of any challenges he'll have to face.


THAT being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least peruse through the Army Books so as to figure out if anything major is different, or if weapon options are changed in some cases. You've already seen this in your Wood Elves, so realizing that Questing Knights switched to Great Weapons for some stupid reason in the Army Book would help you make a decision about how to arm them, or if you plan on simply skipping them.

Yeah this is all true. I am actually doing several things at once. I am (1) trying to dabble in many of the armies as I am hooked on the look and feel of many, (2) I don't want to dive TOO deep into the armies because I tend to play light-hearted games that I don't want to take too seriously or spend a lot of time looking up special rules or even trying to explain them, and (3) I love having everything I need in Ravening Hordes. If Ravening Hordes didn't exist I might be on a different path, but it provides me a cheap way of getting started as well as it seems to be praised by many for being balanced. I know its leaving out a lot, but I am being conscientious when choosing my units in that even though I am building RH armies, I am looking at the corresponding army books to be sure the units are still there or can even equipped as I am building them.

So while I am not really interesting in diving into the army books now, I imagine at some point I might. I am just not there yet. I will probably even buy physical copies of them (right now just reading PDFs).

As for my army sizes, and unit sizes, I did initially start with building around the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter sets. At the time I didn't know which edition I would use as a base for the rules, but I loved that I had 6 different armies. I liked everything enough to want to expand on the armies, more out of character and variety. So I initially decided to add additional armies, but just the the extent of the sizes of the starters, with a few bits here and there. It wasn't until I started buying the Battalion sets, which typically exceed the point costs included in the starters, did I decide I might as bump things up to 1000 points. But the initial goal was 700.

I really like variety and character above all else. I do not like the idea of painting up 20 models to stick all together unless I have to (goblins and skaven), so the vast majority of the time I am building units to the minimum. This also helps me and will help my friend understand how 'these 10 might be better than these 10', versus saying well, 'these 10 are about the same as these 15', nor do I want to have everything centered around a couple of big blocks of infantry. I am taking so much time building and painting up these models and many of those details will be lost when all jam packed together too. In some cases that can't be helped because the minimum is 20, and in those few cases that's fine, as a unit of 20 Skaven does give that army character that is different than most of my other armies, but I wouldn't want to do the same to the Bretonnian Man-at-Arms even if that were the right thing to do to win a game. I know I am not playing the typical sized WFB games here, but I would prefer to be able to spread what little I have around the table, and be able to adapt to whatever type of game we are playing.

In addition, I love Mordheim, so anything I can buy for WFB that I can use in Mordheim is a slam dunk too.

And finally, I am paying attention to the cost. I know it might seem crazy that I am buying up these Battalion sets left and right, but on the average I am getting a lot for my money. As a matter of fact, its rare that I am picking up anything more than a couple of additional characters like a hero and a wizard. I have been blown away with the contents of these Battalion sets to just enjoy what is in them.

With the Bretonnians, I chose the mounted squires because they were both in the RH and army book (even though I don't have the minimum size in RH ~ then again, if you count the horse for unit size I do!). Its also the reason I am not hunting down a trebuchet ~ because its not in RH. But I also chose the squires because I find it more realistic that you would have a mix of peasant guys built around a small number of Knights, at least for an army this size. Knights are pretty expensive, and I just don't mean in points, but in the economy of things. So I am treating my Bretonnians as a peasant army first, led by a small number of Knights, rather than trying to max out the Knights.

Now, whether this makes them a good army I don't know, I will just have to play with what I have, but I think they will look cool and fit my narrative. But this is how I am trying to build all these little armies. Get the most variety I can with the least amount of money, and still make them look and feel interesting. If I try to pursue 3000 point army, not only will I have fewer armies, but I also will lose interest in trying to build and paint everything. I believe you appreciate more with less. Having 20 Orc boys going up against 20 Empire State troops is really just the same as going 10 on 10. Most of the tactics should remain the same so long as heroes and magic isn't overwhelming and from what I have learned they aren't in 6th.

So that is how everything has come together.

It is a cool approach to the game. I really like it.

Will you post some pictures as soon as you are done painting? Like "Look at my Empire spearhead, suddenly being attacked by Orcs and Goblins scouting deep in the forests"

Or another scenario "Skaven force trying to harvest warpstone in the northern Chaos desert. Encounter with a band of Chaos Warriors."
You have so many fething possibilities with your small, but varied armies.

Yeah sure. I have all of my High Elves assembled and primed, all of my Dwarves assembled and primed, half of my Empire assembled and primed, half of my Orcs assembled and primed, and sort of started on Goblins before getting distracted. Which is a huge problem btw, when you constantly have eBay purchases arriving. lol

 Just Tony wrote:

Alright, I guess since I've been keeping up with what KTG has been doing since he kicked this whole thing off that I'll be the one to reiterate where he is on his gaming and collecting.
First: he had chosen 700 point armies initially as he had the last three WFB starter sets as the basis for his collection of minis, and that gave him forces around 700 points.

And he is moving to 1000pts already.

 Just Tony wrote:

Second: he read ALL of those rule books and decided that 6th is what he's playing, and that 6th is what he will be hosting at his house as far as getting new players for a group. Orlanth, take note of that part. You've either lightly tapped the "play 8th" drum or shot it with a howitzer, depending on where you've responded. the OP didn't make this choice at a whim, it was thought out. Any discussion on "future proofing" is irrelevant as the OP has no clear intention to play any later editions.

Actually if you stopped for a moment and looked at what was read rather than consider it an 8th edition conspiracy you will find that the major changes, in fact all of the changes are between Ravening Hordes and 6th.

 Just Tony wrote:

Third: he chose Ravening Hordes as it's the most internally AND externally balanced army lists you could get for WFB, and it's also easier for him to teach off of those lists as there's less clutter, special rules or wonk balance issues to deal with than with the books.

Then at least he should get the warning that building knights for 5th or Ravening Hordes and building tham for 6th, or 8th is different. They are organised differently and fit together differently.
Knights built for a triangular formation will need to be reposed for square formation of 6th edition lance rules. his will involve cutting and changing of tails. As ranking cavalry is essential to playable Bretonnia a heads up is needed.

My advice, regardless of whether you approve is this: The OP should be advised to assemble his knights so they rank up in file, not at an offset, its either/or and the columnal lance formation will serve him better longer term than the triangle formation.

KTG17; To avoid having the little chat above again, and again, is there any chance you could start a mega thread with the info in OP?

 Orlanth wrote:
Then at least he should get the warning that building knights for 5th or Ravening Hordes and building tham for 6th, or 8th is different. They are organised differently and fit together differently.
Knights built for a triangular formation will need to be reposed for square formation of 6th edition lance rules. his will involve cutting and changing of tails. As ranking cavalry is essential to playable Bretonnia a heads up is needed.

My advice, regardless of whether you approve is this: The OP should be advised to assemble his knights so they rank up in file, not at an offset, its either/or and the columnal lance formation will serve him better longer term than the triangle formation.

And this one is totally valid, as is the point that the player doesn't HAVE to form the Lance formation. This part is totally overlooked by most people. Not to mention the fact that repositioning the horse tails is pretty simplistic. Hell, when I had to modify my 5th Ed. Bret horses for 6th AB formations, all it took was clipping the tails off, shaving the end that was attached to create a taper, and gluing them back down so that the bottom part of the tail was hanging down in the split in the caparison. He'll be able to figure it out, and legit advice in that respect is welcome.




Assembly advice isn't any sort of issue, but look again at your original quote about the Bret book and going by it. You SPECIFICALLY mention that it was the book used through 7th and 8th, and that's what made it "future proofed". THAT is what I was commenting on. I know you don't think highly of 6th at all, given the "nostalgia goggles" comment from the other thread. I get it. My own detestation of what WFB turned into aside, if someone wanted advice that was pertinent to 5th, 7th, or 8th, I'd give them the advice pertinent to that. They chose the edition they're playing for a reason. The death of WFB created a paradigm where EVERY player who still wants to play ranks and flanks had to sit there and figure out what KIND of game they wanted to play, and they've gone with that. It's why you still have people who play 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and the creation of T9A and KOW.

 ingtaer wrote:
KTG17; To avoid having the little chat above again, and again, is there any chance you could start a mega thread with the info in OP?

I actually thought about this some time ago, but honestly, I really concluded some mod would lock it saying it was too bloggy. So I am stuck in this cycle.

And I have another major update soon too! Which means another thread. I would love to have just one.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Then at least he should get the warning that building knights for 5th or Ravening Hordes and building tham for 6th, or 8th is different. They are organised differently and fit together differently.
Knights built for a triangular formation will need to be reposed for square formation of 6th edition lance rules. his will involve cutting and changing of tails. As ranking cavalry is essential to playable Bretonnia a heads up is needed.

My advice, regardless of whether you approve is this: The OP should be advised to assemble his knights so they rank up in file, not at an offset, its either/or and the columnal lance formation will serve him better longer term than the triangle formation.

And this one is totally valid, as is the point that the player doesn't HAVE to form the Lance formation. This part is totally overlooked by most people. Not to mention the fact that repositioning the horse tails is pretty simplistic. Hell, when I had to modify my 5th Ed. Bret horses for 6th AB formations, all it took was clipping the tails off, shaving the end that was attached to create a taper, and gluing them back down so that the bottom part of the tail was hanging down in the split in the caparison. He'll be able to figure it out, and legit advice in that respect is welcome.

Good that you came around at least partway.

 Just Tony wrote:

Assembly advice isn't any sort of issue, but look again at your original quote about the Bret book and going by it. You SPECIFICALLY mention that it was the book used through 7th and 8th, and that's what made it "future proofed". THAT is what I was commenting on.

And you misread again because you always return to your 6th is superior stick and feel the need to get defensive. I mentioned that the Bretonnians are future proofed from the 6th army book, which is evidently true as it was the only army with the 6th army book as its last available official source.

Use the army bok to play 6th, but also be reminded that you can play 7th or 8th also, hence future proofing. This makes logical sense, most of us if we got a game with someone new would like to be accomodating. With my Bretonnians if my opponent prefered 6th I would agree to play 6th, if the prefered 8th I would play 8th, if they prefer 9th Age the collections are compatible for that also.

Now the OP is hosting so he has some leeway to say to another player, "i can provide two armies from a wide range, one of your choice, and we can play Ravening Hordes". However he might also find a player as I do who has a preference and their own army. In which case it is polite to take turns to play the edition of each players choice. I take that a step further and not only host but provide not only paired armies but choice of Ravening Hordes, 6th (limited), 8th and 9th Age 1.1, and may extend to include 3rd also.

 Just Tony wrote:

I know you don't think highly of 6th at all, given the "nostalgia goggles" comment from the other thread. I get it. My own detestation of what WFB turned into aside, if someone wanted advice that was pertinent to 5th, 7th, or 8th, I'd give them the advice pertinent to that. They chose the edition they're playing for a reason. The death of WFB created a paradigm where EVERY player who still wants to play ranks and flanks had to sit there and figure out what KIND of game they wanted to play, and they've gone with that. It's why you still have people who play 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and the creation of T9A and KOW.

You are underthinking this, if you host for a specific rulset fair enough, but it helps to have armies that can match a player you meet on the ruleset that THEY prefer as well as your own.

And for the record I dont dislike 6th, my go to preferences are early edition 9th Age, specifically 1.1 (before the core mechanics differed from WHFB), 8th because I am collecting a library of 8th army books, and its the last official ruleset and Ravening Hordes is ready on the sidelines because it is a single volume pick up and play ruleset. I want to buy 3rd at some point for the library.
Collecting a library of earlier edition army books is not a priority, but is on the long term to do list. Other than Bretonnians I have 6th army books for two factions (Empire and High Elves) so I have something to use if its someone elses turn to choose the ruleset.