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The Inquisition has power over all subjects of the Imperium.........save for the Emperor.

But now Guilliman is the de facto ruler of the Imperium in his father's stead can the Inquisition claim power over him? After all Space Marine Chapters are notorious for being on the periphery of the Inquisition's remit...

I don't think that an Inquisitor can tell a Primarch what to do.

That said, I don't think anyone in the Imperium can tell a Primarch what to.

 Corennus wrote:
The Inquisition has power over all subjects of the Imperium.........save for the Emperor.

But now Guilliman is the de facto ruler of the Imperium in his father's stead can the Inquisition claim power over him? After all Space Marine Chapters are notorious for being on the periphery of the Inquisition's remit...

An Inquisitor does not have power over other Inquisitors or the enthroned Emperor. I also think the Custodes are beyond their remit.

In reality any decent Inquisitor always needs to consider the political side of things when they interact with powerful individuals in the Imperium - after all they may have their Inquisitorial contacts.

An Inquisitor trying to exert any power over RG needs to have:

1) The backing of plenty of his or her colleagues - otherwise your rivals will line up to use it an excuse to stab you in the back.
2) A good enough reason that all the various power blocks already aligned with him won't block it (he has the Church, a large portion of the Mechanicus and the Astartes as well as the Guard)
3) The nerve and will to confront the living Son of God - worth remembering many Inquisitors are still true believers.

 Corennus wrote:
The Inquisition has power over all subjects of the Imperium.........save for the Emperor.

But now Guilliman is the de facto ruler of the Imperium in his father's stead can the Inquisition claim power over him? After all Space Marine Chapters are notorious for being on the periphery of the Inquisition's remit...

The short answer.. no almost certainly not.

The long answer... The power of the Inqusition is a pretty solid case study of De Jure vs De Facto,

De Jure, latin for "In Law" describes something that is legally the case even if if it's not something that is actually done. De Facto means "in fact" using the IoM as an example, De Jure the ruler of the Imperium of man is the Emperor, De Facto it's the high lords headed by Gulliman. To use a example from the contemporary UK... De Jure, the Queen may dissolve Parliment whenever she bloody well wishes, de facto she may only dissolve it at the reccomendation of the Prime Minister and or in the aftermath of a lost confidance vote. Weather or not the law extends to Gulliman in the case of Inqusitorial oversight is pretty much irrelevant because a Inqusitor would have to gather the support to go after Gulliman (and his considerable support base) to be able to exercise that power.

So yeah in short, Gulliman is beyond the Inqusitor, whatever the situation on paper is, no Inqusitor could openly move against him

Guilliman is a High Lord so technically the Inquisition has jurisdiction over him. Though in practice applying that jurisdiction might be a tad challenging...

The inquisition has power over anything and anyone that is too weak to fight back, and has no power over those with such power.

Gulliman is defiantly in the "has power" side of things. if it came to the Inquisition coming after him, he's exterminate the Inquisition-and that's before the entire realm of ultamar declares war on the Inquisition with over half the loyalist space marines under their command.

It needn't be anything so big as attempting to kill RG even. Here is more or less how any attempt by an Inquisitor to get RG to do anything would go:

I: do this immediately
RG: I'm too busy, holding the Imperium together
I: good point... Do it when you can?
RG: Maybe. If I believe it needs to be done, otherwise I will be too busy. Or do you want the forces of chaos to sweep through the galaxy and consume humanity?
I: Hmm... Ok

It's only backed up by force. An inquisitor has power because the majority of the time imperial forces will obey them and back them up on whatever they're trying to do. If an ordo hereticus inquisitor needs to wipe out a cult of heretics they can grab a nearby guard regiment and order them to do it. The guard will always do it unless there are some crazy circumstances.

If RG tells and inquisitor to zog off what is he going to do about it? Imagine if an inquisitor told a guard regiment that they were going to go attack the Ultramarines and RG. They would probably think the inquisitor has gone traitor. Even an inquisitor's personal forces would balk at the idea of going against a son of the emperor. The only way an enemy of RG could gather forces against him is if they could prove he was a traitor like Horus.

Worship and loyalty to the emperor and by extension any living loyal primarch is going to trump anything an Inquisitor has to say in the vast majority of imperial citizens.

Edit: Hell, in the fluff the inquisition has always had issues with regular space marines. Most regular marine chapters are willing to tell the inquisition to go to hell if they are at odds. Emperor > Chapter > all other loyal humans > everything else dies.

BrianDavion’s signature has the right of it - “Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend”.

If the Inquisitor can call in some heavy hitters, he can make Guilliman’s life difficult. If he can’t, his own heresy may be called into question and he could quietly vanish into the thirsty, grinding gears of the Imperium.

Inq: “Guilliman, you will undertake the following Imperial-mandated test to prove you are uncorrupted by Xenos or Chaos-tainted heresies.”

Rob: “I don’t think so. In fact, I have reassigned you to a unit on the front lines of the Chaos March so your eyes can be opened to the dangers the Imperium currently faces from the Cicatrix Maledictum”

Inq: “But...”

Rob: “I think you’d best hurry before I reserve you a seat on a certain Black Ship with a completely different destination in mind.”

Inq: “But, I’m not even -“

Rob: <Glare>

Inq: “Fine. As you command, my Lord.”

Guilliman definitely has no authority to assign an Inquisitor to do anything, at least by de jure.

No. On paper, the Inqusition's power extends to almost everything. In actuality, their power is limited only by their actual power. Inquisitiorial remit may give them authority to say, wipe out the Space Wolves, but that doesn't stop the Space Wolves fighting back, other chapters joining the Wolves, other organisations standing against the Inqusitor.

No inquisitor has the resources to go after Guilliman. He has the backing of pretty much every Space Marine chapter at this point, between bringing proper reinforcements in the form of Primaris Marines and being the other living Primarch. He likely has Eccesiarchal support as well as the son of their God. He has Custodes Support, Grey Knight support, likely Imperial Guard support too. The only faction he doesn't command fully is the Ad Mech, and even then, depending on how individuals see the new tech being rolled out, he owns a lot of loyalty.

The only thing an Inquisitor has is his own allies, who in comparison to the wider organisations, are insignificant. An inquisitor might be close personal friends with several Chapter masters, but that's inconsequential if those MAsters are all from Guilliman's bloodline. The Blood Angels are naturally grateful to Robby G for bailing them out on Baal and bringing replenished forces. The Space Wolves are beginning to accept Primaris as well and see them as potential Wulfen cure.

In short, no. The legal power of the Inq may extend to Guilliman, but no one even has a hope of touching him politically.

 Crimson wrote:
Guilliman definitely has no authority to assign an Inquisitor to do anything, at least by de jure.

No, but most Inquisitors would be inclined to perform a task personally set by Guilliman because being in his good books gives them more de facto power.

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, I don't think anyone in the Imperium can tell a Primarch what to.

Well, if they can get an appointment, there's always "Dad"...

There are certainly some angles the Inquisition could go for if they were even somewhat unified. The fact that Guilliman was resurrected by a xeno witch doesn't probably sit too well with many devout followers of the Imperial Creed. And of course many powerful organisations would definitely be disgruntled by Guilliman stepping on their toes and disrupting the status quo, so there would be allies to had. It is just that this is not the sort of story that GW wants to do, they want Guilliman to be awesome and shiny and fawned over by everyone.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, I don't think anyone in the Imperium can tell a Primarch what to.

Well, if they can get an appointment, there's always "Dad"...

Dad has been a potato for ten millennia.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, I don't think anyone in the Imperium can tell a Primarch what to.

Well, if they can get an appointment, there's always "Dad"...

Dad has been a potato for ten millennia.

Well kinda. Guilliman claims to have spoken to him recently.

 Crimson wrote:
There are certainly some angles the Inquisition could go for if they were even somewhat unified. The fact that Guilliman was resurrected by a xeno witch doesn't probably sit too well with many devout followers of the Imperial Creed. And of course many powerful organisations would definitely be disgruntled by Guilliman stepping on their toes and disrupting the status quo, so there would be allies to had. It is just that this is not the sort of story that GW wants to do, they want Guilliman to be awesome and shiny and fawned over by everyone.

Those same devout followers are also aware that a Living saint gave him the thunbs up and in fact also worked with those same Xenos to carry out His work - the Emperor works in mysterious ways.

GW have been a bit deeper that your idea - RG has to deal with the fact that he and is fatehr failed, that everything he fought for failed, that he is now propping up the opposite, living a nightmare to event a worse one.

Even RG has to play politics and compromise his beliefs - he works with the Church which is a brutal, sadistic horrific entity that goes against all he has fought for, because he has no choice.

Any single Inquisitor is as impotent as they apparently were during Vandires reign - only now they serve silently a true annointed son of God.

 Crimson wrote:
The fact that Guilliman was resurrected by a xeno witch doesn't probably sit too well with many devout followers of the Imperial Creed.

I like how 4chan made people repeat that over and over when A ) number of witnesses to said resurrection can be counted on both hands, vast majority of them being Ultramarines who certainly won't run gossip to nearest Inquisitor, and B ) these followers of creed would need to be colossally stupid to ignore the fact G had audience with the Emperor and has custodes following him telling everyone protesting to shut up and follow his orders, because that is the Emperor's will. Unless said Inquisitor can go to nearest purity seal peddler and buy a copy of Gathering Storm, or pull out of his pocket someone even closer to the Emps than custodians, he/she/it aren't doing gak...

 Irbis wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
The fact that Guilliman was resurrected by a xeno witch doesn't probably sit too well with many devout followers of the Imperial Creed.

I like how 4chan made people repeat that over and over when A ) number of witnesses to said resurrection can be counted on both hands, vast majority of them being Ultramarines who certainly won't run gossip to nearest Inquisitor, and B ) these followers of creed would need to be colossally stupid to ignore the fact G had audience with the Emperor and has custodes following him telling everyone protesting to shut up and follow his orders, because that is the Emperor's will. Unless said Inquisitor can go to nearest purity seal peddler and buy a copy of Gathering Storm, or pull out of his pocket someone even closer to the Emps than custodians, he/she/it aren't doing gak...

This, the eldar's involvement in Gulliman's ressurection is almost certainly a secret known only to Celestine, Greyfax, Cawl, and select members of the Ultramarines, and ALL of them, even the arch-puritianical Greyfax accept that this is the divine will of the Emperor made manifest.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Any single Inquisitor is as impotent as they apparently were during Vandires reign - only now they serve silently a true annointed son of God.

Well, I hope Guilliman meets similar end than Vandire! Sic semper tyrannis!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

This, the eldar's involvement in Gulliman's ressurection is almost certainly a secret known only to Celestine, Greyfax, Cawl, and select members of the Ultramarines, and ALL of them, even the arch-puritianical Greyfax accept that this is the divine will of the Emperor made manifest.

Of course. Because Guilliman is the shiniest and the bestests and everybody loves him! Inquisitors and devout Sisters of Battle are willing to overlook xeno necromancy, because Gulliman is just so fab! Oh boy, it is good we got rid of that old stale fluff where Imperium was in decline and all boring and gak!

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Any single Inquisitor is as impotent as they apparently were during Vandires reign - only now they serve silently a true annointed son of God.

Well, I hope Guilliman meets similar end than Vandire! Sic semper tyrannis!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

This, the eldar's involvement in Gulliman's ressurection is almost certainly a secret known only to Celestine, Greyfax, Cawl, and select members of the Ultramarines, and ALL of them, even the arch-puritianical Greyfax accept that this is the divine will of the Emperor made manifest.

Of course. Because Guilliman is the shiniest and the bestests and everybody loves him! Inquisitors and devout Sisters of Battle are willing to overlook xeno necromancy, because Gulliman is just so fab! Oh boy, it is good we got rid of that old stale fluff where Imperium was in decline and all boring and gak!

I agree. It was stale and boring.

 Crimson wrote:
There are certainly some angles the Inquisition could go for if they were even somewhat unified. The fact that Guilliman was resurrected by a xeno witch doesn't probably sit too well with many devout followers of the Imperial Creed. And of course many powerful organisations would definitely be disgruntled by Guilliman stepping on their toes and disrupting the status quo, so there would be allies to had. It is just that this is not the sort of story that GW wants to do, they want Guilliman to be awesome and shiny and fawned over by everyone.

AFAIR officially Girlyman was resurrected by the Adeptus Mechanicus alone, rather than Cawl simply helping out Yvraine. It's questionable how much knowledge of the actual events is available to most inquisitors, assuming that Greyfax wasn't so stupid as to paint a bullseye on her forehead for any hardline puritan Ordo Xenos Inquisitor out there by writing a report that disclosed what actually happened.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Any single Inquisitor is as impotent as they apparently were during Vandires reign - only now they serve silently a true annointed son of God.

Well, I hope Guilliman meets similar end than Vandire! Sic semper tyrannis!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

This, the eldar's involvement in Gulliman's ressurection is almost certainly a secret known only to Celestine, Greyfax, Cawl, and select members of the Ultramarines, and ALL of them, even the arch-puritianical Greyfax accept that this is the divine will of the Emperor made manifest.

Of course. Because Guilliman is the shiniest and the bestests and everybody loves him! Inquisitors and devout Sisters of Battle are willing to overlook xeno necromancy, because Gulliman is just so fab! Oh boy, it is good we got rid of that old stale fluff where Imperium was in decline and all boring and gak!

But why would the Inquisitors or sisters or anyone think that Xenos were even involved. The only people who knew are either personally loyal to Gulliman, a Living Saint, one Inqusitor who herself has been exposed to xenos tech so any accusation she throws around would lead to Cawl ratting out that she was a necron puppet and Cawl himself who is probably happy to take all the credit for getting God's son back on his feet. Even if an Inquisitor magically knew what happened, to accuse a primarch and win they would need overwhelming proof.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Any single Inquisitor is as impotent as they apparently were during Vandires reign - only now they serve silently a true annointed son of God.

Well, I hope Guilliman meets similar end than Vandire! Sic semper tyrannis!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

This, the eldar's involvement in Gulliman's ressurection is almost certainly a secret known only to Celestine, Greyfax, Cawl, and select members of the Ultramarines, and ALL of them, even the arch-puritianical Greyfax accept that this is the divine will of the Emperor made manifest.

Of course. Because Guilliman is the shiniest and the bestests and everybody loves him! Inquisitors and devout Sisters of Battle are willing to overlook xeno necromancy, because Gulliman is just so fab! Oh boy, it is good we got rid of that old stale fluff where Imperium was in decline and all boring and gak!

yes the complete lack of any changes WAS boring, GW was running out of things they could do without a change.

HoundsofDemos wrote:


But why would the Inquisitors or sisters or anyone think that Xenos were even involved. The only people who knew are either personally loyal to Gulliman, a Living Saint, one Inqusitor who herself has been exposed to xenos tech so any accusation she throws around would lead to Cawl ratting out that she was a necron puppet and Cawl himself who is probably happy to take all the credit for getting God's son back on his feet. Even if an Inquisitor magically knew what happened, to accuse a primarch and win they would need overwhelming proof.

But that is because GW chose to write it so. Everyone, (a bloody living saint included!) just went along with it. They chose to kill this potentially interesting story development where there would be conflict, friction and even potential infighting in the Imperium over a childish and boring stryline where Guilliman is just a big shiny hero and everyone loves him.

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:


But why would the Inquisitors or sisters or anyone think that Xenos were even involved. The only people who knew are either personally loyal to Gulliman, a Living Saint, one Inqusitor who herself has been exposed to xenos tech so any accusation she throws around would lead to Cawl ratting out that she was a necron puppet and Cawl himself who is probably happy to take all the credit for getting God's son back on his feet. Even if an Inquisitor magically knew what happened, to accuse a primarch and win they would need overwhelming proof.

But that is because GW chose to write it so. Everyone, (a bloody living saint included!) just went along with it. They chose to kill this potentially interesting story development where there would be conflict, friction and even potential infighting in the Imperium over a childish and boring stryline where Guilliman is just a big shiny hero and everyone loves him.

Nope they wrote a interesting story that worked for me - subjective but hey.

The Living Saint went along with it because the Emperor told her to - its not the first time He has used Xenos tech for his own purposes.

They addressed quite a bit of it in the accompanying books and "Sigh" - have you actually read any of the new fluff (or even my previous post) - the Imperium is in few ways better off (some new tech) but also has been torn in two, lost many more worlds etc etc. Cadia is gone, Chaos is ascendant etc etc.

Many normal people (in-universe) love RG - well duh he is the Son of God - but the politics are all still ongoing, the Imperium staggers on - but no more than that. RG questions why and what he is fighting for..

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:


But why would the Inquisitors or sisters or anyone think that Xenos were even involved. The only people who knew are either personally loyal to Gulliman, a Living Saint, one Inqusitor who herself has been exposed to xenos tech so any accusation she throws around would lead to Cawl ratting out that she was a necron puppet and Cawl himself who is probably happy to take all the credit for getting God's son back on his feet. Even if an Inquisitor magically knew what happened, to accuse a primarch and win they would need overwhelming proof.

But that is because GW chose to write it so. Everyone, (a bloody living saint included!) just went along with it. They chose to kill this potentially interesting story development where there would be conflict, friction and even potential infighting in the Imperium over a childish and boring stryline where Guilliman is just a big shiny hero and everyone loves him.

proably because it allows them to move onto more intreasting development rather then "lol the Imperium are stupid and in fight!"

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:


But why would the Inquisitors or sisters or anyone think that Xenos were even involved. The only people who knew are either personally loyal to Gulliman, a Living Saint, one Inqusitor who herself has been exposed to xenos tech so any accusation she throws around would lead to Cawl ratting out that she was a necron puppet and Cawl himself who is probably happy to take all the credit for getting God's son back on his feet. Even if an Inquisitor magically knew what happened, to accuse a primarch and win they would need overwhelming proof.

But that is because GW chose to write it so. Everyone, (a bloody living saint included!) just went along with it. They chose to kill this potentially interesting story development where there would be conflict, friction and even potential infighting in the Imperium over a childish and boring stryline where Guilliman is just a big shiny hero and everyone loves him.

What makes you think there won't be infighting?

I saw it as just the first step in a new narrative. There are two massive hooks left open for conflict within the Imperium down the road.

1.
Guilliman detests the ecclesiarchy. He will absolutely attempt to take them down eventually. He sees them as an affront to everything the Emperor was fighting for. But he is also a pragmatist and realised that for now he can't fight a civil war while the Imperium is already in such danger.

2.
Other Primarchs. They will return, and there is no way The Lion or Russ will cow to Guilliman.

 Stux wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:


But why would the Inquisitors or sisters or anyone think that Xenos were even involved. The only people who knew are either personally loyal to Gulliman, a Living Saint, one Inqusitor who herself has been exposed to xenos tech so any accusation she throws around would lead to Cawl ratting out that she was a necron puppet and Cawl himself who is probably happy to take all the credit for getting God's son back on his feet. Even if an Inquisitor magically knew what happened, to accuse a primarch and win they would need overwhelming proof.

But that is because GW chose to write it so. Everyone, (a bloody living saint included!) just went along with it. They chose to kill this potentially interesting story development where there would be conflict, friction and even potential infighting in the Imperium over a childish and boring stryline where Guilliman is just a big shiny hero and everyone loves him.

What makes you think there won't be infighting?

I saw it as just the first step in a new narrative. There are two massive hooks left open for conflict within the Imperium down the road.

1.
Guilliman detests the ecclesiarchy. He will absolutely attempt to take them down eventually. He sees them as an affront to everything the Emperor was fighting for. But he is also a pragmatist and realised that for now he can't fight a civil war while the Imperium is already in such danger.

2.
Other Primarchs. They will return, and there is no way The Lion or Russ will cow to Guilliman.

we have to remember that GW likely isn't intending to do a battletech style moving timeline, things will change but it'll be slow and GW's goin g to be filling in a LOT of things over the next few years. our view of the setting is... somewhat incomplete I suspect.

Not to mention that the Eldar meddling could easily come to light later on when they next advance the plot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:


But why would the Inquisitors or sisters or anyone think that Xenos were even involved. The only people who knew are either personally loyal to Gulliman, a Living Saint, one Inqusitor who herself has been exposed to xenos tech so any accusation she throws around would lead to Cawl ratting out that she was a necron puppet and Cawl himself who is probably happy to take all the credit for getting God's son back on his feet. Even if an Inquisitor magically knew what happened, to accuse a primarch and win they would need overwhelming proof.

But that is because GW chose to write it so. Everyone, (a bloody living saint included!) just went along with it. They chose to kill this potentially interesting story development where there would be conflict, friction and even potential infighting in the Imperium over a childish and boring stryline where Guilliman is just a big shiny hero and everyone loves him.

What makes you think there won't be infighting?

I saw it as just the first step in a new narrative. There are two massive hooks left open for conflict within the Imperium down the road.

1.
Guilliman detests the ecclesiarchy. He will absolutely attempt to take them down eventually. He sees them as an affront to everything the Emperor was fighting for. But he is also a pragmatist and realised that for now he can't fight a civil war while the Imperium is already in such danger.

2.
Other Primarchs. They will return, and there is no way The Lion or Russ will cow to Guilliman.

we have to remember that GW likely isn't intending to do a battletech style moving timeline, things will change but it'll be slow and GW's goin g to be filling in a LOT of things over the next few years. our view of the setting is... somewhat incomplete I suspect.

I basically agree. What I expect (hope) is that every 18 months or so we get a campaign release which advances the plot around a few big specific events in the setting.