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Obviously, the scale will still be smaller, but I like Kill Team because it is different than 40K. Now, with commanders, I feel like it is going to turn into 40K's "stand by your HQ to re-roll ones." Am I jumping the gun on this or do others feel the same way?

you're jumping the gun, given the skirmish nature of KT a simple command aura seems unlikely. more likely you'll have something akin to the IG order system.

I can definitely see that happening, but I also reckon it'll remain different enough.

If one did clump an entire team around one model they'd be easily out manoeuvred by an opponent playing 'normally' and probably lose because of it.

As long as it stays primarily Infantry based, I'll be okay with it. 40k for me fell apart when SHV became a normal part of the game.

Keep vehicles in 40k. Killteam should be all about infantry, and hero hammer SOMETIMES.

To further expand, this is an edition where footslogging characters are just bad and bland in games of 40k. And it seems like every gorgeous new character model GW produces is on foot.... It was one of my main complaints at the start of 8th edition.

But in a Killteam setting, these Commanders can finally feel important again.

As said above, KT's balancing should be fine as long as they keep it around infantry (and MAYBE a few Monsters/Cavalry), and most importantly don't bring (broken) combos. Especially auras. 8th is like "Get everything shooty around the reroll guy and behold". Models should still operate independantly, with support from specialists like we have now. Honestly I think KT is well balanced except for a handful of teams (Asuryani, GSC, maybe more) and they should focus on fine-tuning the actual teams before expanding and including new stuff that may break all the meta. I was pleased to read that the new Rogue Trader team doesn't seem to be broken, and may even be tricky to play. I feared that as it was new with shiny named characters it would be OP but it doesn't look like the case.

I am looking forward to Commanders. Just before they were leaked/announced my campaign partner and I were discussing how to implement "boss battles" in our campaign and how cool it would be. Needless to say we both are very excited now. Considering, from what I have read, that some of these commanders are 100pts by themselves it really will be like a boss battle. A great idea I think, though I am interested to see how they are implemented in matched play.

First, I hope not. I like how KT works right now. Second, it is an expansion, so it is optional for casual games. So your friend asks, "Regular KT or Commanders?" You can say, "Regular, not feeling up to Commanders today." Same way how the Rogue Trader box is just an expansion ... While I like the material added, its not something every KT player needs or would want.

Still, the original W40k: Rogue Trader did not have any vehicle bigger than a Land Speeder, so there an unfortunate precedent for "mission creep", mainly GW wants to sell more big ticket items. Since the current administration seems wise to the fact that you need addict people cheaply first before encouraging them to buy $185 superheavies, they may keep KT new player friendly. Heck, it has gotten me to spend $441 on GW product, which I have not done since buying a Necron army in 2012.

I wouldn't mind seeing a battle against a solitary vehicle - such as a drednought or a crisis suit - but not multiples, and probably not with any allies. I also think that whilst it would be a fun alternative for a game that it shouldn't become a common one.

Coming 2019

Kill Team: Titans

On one hand, I feel like adding Commanders diminishes the "one box and you're in!" appeal of Kill Team. If the Commander expansion becomes the new standard for play then if I decide to pick up a new faction I'll have to commit to an infantry box and an HQ clampack. That doesn't sound like much in the grand scheme of things, but since I was kinda looking at KT as a fun way to experiment with a bunch of different armies that I would otherwise never even dream of building a full list of that does add up.

On the other hand, the Necron faction list is absolutely desperate for a model with a warscythe and if we're not getting lychguard it might as well be an overlord...

I like the KT lore. Small elite squad. Just a small 100 point match. I like KT because it is enought different from 40K, a complement to it. I don't know how KT works with Commanders because I played before the expansion.

Well, they can expand the game with Commanders or they can add Dreadnoughts for example, it depends on us how we want to play KT. If we try it with Commanders and don't like it, we just can go back and play it "base"

I don't think commanders will do that to the game. I've been playing some games with the Rogue Trader set and I don't find I spend my time clumping them all together for the aura. The game objectives and stuff don't really let you for a start

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Obviously, the scale will still be smaller, but I like Kill Team because it is different than 40K. Now, with commanders, I feel like it is going to turn into 40K's "stand by your HQ to re-roll ones." Am I jumping the gun on this or do others feel the same way?

You're jumping the gun on this. We've gotten a preview of two of the Commander trees in Rogue Trader. Neither of them do things like that.

One turns your Commander into a helluva bruiser and I hope/fear seeing it on an Abominant.
The other is "Strategist" and does similar things into making them able to generate CPs while on the board and things of that nature.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Obviously, the scale will still be smaller, but I like Kill Team because it is different than 40K. Now, with commanders, I feel like it is going to turn into 40K's "stand by your HQ to re-roll ones." Am I jumping the gun on this or do others feel the same way?

You're jumping the gun on this. We've gotten a preview of two of the Commander trees in Rogue Trader. Neither of them do things like that.

Both of them have a re-roll 1s aura strategem.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Obviously, the scale will still be smaller, but I like Kill Team because it is different than 40K. Now, with commanders, I feel like it is going to turn into 40K's "stand by your HQ to re-roll ones." Am I jumping the gun on this or do others feel the same way?

You're jumping the gun on this. We've gotten a preview of two of the Commander trees in Rogue Trader. Neither of them do things like that.

Both of them have a re-roll 1s aura strategem.

Which isn't the same thing as "stand by your HQ to reroll ones"...and it's additionally worth noting that those aren't from the Commander trees. Those are the Vulgrar Thrice-Cursed and Elucia Vhane specific stuff and they require the model emitting the aura not be shaken.

If you have the book, look at pages 37 and 45. They show you the "Strategist" specialties(37) and "Strength" specialties (45). Vulgrar gets access to Strength but not Strategist and Vhane gets access to Strategist but not Strength.

Page 29 has the "basic" Commander Tactics and Traits.

One of the things KT had going or it was low model count and simpler than regular 40k. By adding commanders with special rules and auras and all that convoluted stuff it's going to make the game less accessible imo. Not sure why GW can't just let things be, they always have to stack special rules and bog the game down with nonsense.

 Thargrim wrote:
One of the things KT had going or it was low model count and simpler than regular 40k. By adding commanders with special rules and auras and all that convoluted stuff it's going to make the game less accessible imo. Not sure why GW can't just let things be, they always have to stack special rules and bog the game down with nonsense.

Optional expansion is optional.

The Commanders, as they currently stand, are fairly simple.

I think the point is obviously to guide the players toward one day playing 40k. But to me adding commanders does take away somewhat from what the appeal of Kill Team is.

There will probably be an elites expansion, and eventually a light vehicles expansion, and maybe a few more narrative expansions like Rogue Trader. And likely the game will become pretty much unplayable with all that, but hey, you can just play 40k instead!

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I think the point is obviously to guide the players toward one day playing 40k. But to me adding commanders does take away somewhat from what the appeal of Kill Team is.

There will probably be an elites expansion, and eventually a light vehicles expansion, and maybe a few more narrative expansions like Rogue Trader. And likely the game will become pretty much unplayable with all that, but hey, you can just play 40k instead!

I don't expect light vehicles. I don't even expect Monstrous Creatures.

I will say that whatever the next big expansion will be, I expect something ala Rogue Trader to be a backdoor into it.

I just hope they don't blow up the flavor of the Kil Teams, if they start giving Melee Beasts and Psykers to everyone, then the game is going to become bland.

It depends how expensive and capable a commander is, and how many options they have.

So far as the boxes appear, all the commanders are clamshell infantry characters. Getting FLY with tactics is fine, but I hope they don't add any permanently flying characters because making this an infantry game is a big part of the appeal.

We'll have to wait and see.

I don't think it's Kill Team or Kill Team: Commanders - it's more "do I want to put a commander in my kill team given that it'll set me back 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of my team?"

As long as 100 points of generic dudes and specialists can give commanders a good fight, they're an new option, not a change in the game.

Note that assassinating a commander is a lot easier than picking out an equivalent model in 40k - Look Out Sir (on a 2+) exists, but it's a 1CP tactic so is in finite supply unless you want to invalidate the benefit of bringing the commander in the first place, and eating the same CPs that power your reroll to hit bubbles.

Elucia Vhane is sitting at 45pts for L1, 60 for 2, 75 for 3, and 100pts for 4.
Vulgrar(closer to a monster than anything else we've seen yet) starts at 65 then ends at 130, going up 20 pts for L2+3, then 25 for L4.

Okay, so...yeah. In matched play, you're basiclly getting Vulgrar plus a handful of nurgling analogues, and you're asking him to solo almost an entire kill-team.
He should be scary.

I like the description above of the commanders being boss mode... do the boxes come with tense soundtracks to play while your.team.sneaks up.on them and pounces?

I'm a bit surprised at how quickly they are expanding Kill Team. The average 9-5 schlub like me has only had a handful of games and still trying to get a solid grasp of the rules and tactics. The appeal of Kill Team is in its simplicity - not that makes it any less fun or tactical mind you.

I'm hoping this character expansion just stays as a narrative option rather than the new norm for standard matched play. Besides at 100pts, a single character (plus a couple of extras) is going to struggle to cap objectives. From what I heard of the Nova Open Kill Team tournament, the missions they used required objective and territory control alongside killing. This to me is the funnest way to play.

MaxB wrote:
I'm a bit surprised at how quickly they are expanding Kill Team. The average 9-5 schlub like me has only had a handful of games and still trying to get a solid grasp of the rules and tactics. The appeal of Kill Team is in its simplicity - not that makes it any less fun or tactical mind you.

I'm hoping this character expansion just stays as a narrative option rather than the new norm for standard matched play. Besides at 100pts, a single character (plus a couple of extras) is going to struggle to cap objectives. From what I heard of the Nova Open Kill Team tournament, the missions they used required objective and territory control alongside killing. This to me is the funnest way to play.

In Rogue Trader it says that if you're using the commander rules you play at 150 points instead of 100.

I think that'd be a mistake. I could see them going up to 200 points when you play campaign + commanders, but any bigger and I think they'll start losing more interest than they're gaining right now.

But who knows.

Good decisions + Games Workshop don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Well, most commanders seem to have an aura ability of some kind and there is command point farming. These reveals make me a sad panda.

I understand it is an expansion and totally optional, but it just sends the game in a direction that I did not want to see it go.

On command point farming:

Right now we have seen an ability that lets you get a CP on a 5+ every time your opponent uses a tactic. I will assume that he’s got to be alive, and probably not shaken to use that. How many CP is that going to generate in a game? 2-3?

You get 1 CP for every 10 points under your opponent’s force value you are. How expensive is it to start at a higher level? The RT expansion characters suggest 15-20 points. So in a longer game it might be worth it. But there are a lot of variables. If you eat a rocket to the face first turn, obviously you aren’t going to get a lot of use out of it. If your opponent’s leader gets snuffed early, limiting his CP generation/use, again less milage. In a multiplayer game? Could be broken as heck, depends on the fine print.

That’s also not taking into account the opportunity cost of not taking some of the other L2 upgrades.

But I’m not worried that this could be as broken as some of the 40k shenanigans. For one thing, there are a lot fewer places to generate abilities from. When you have fewer things overlapping, there are less opportunities for broken combos.

 Nevelon wrote:
On command point farming:

Right now we have seen an ability that lets you get a CP on a 5+ every time your opponent uses a tactic. I will assume that he’s got to be alive, and probably not shaken to use that. How many CP is that going to generate in a game? 2-3?

You get 1 CP for every 10 points under your opponent’s force value you are. How expensive is it to start at a higher level? The RT expansion characters suggest 15-20 points. So in a longer game it might be worth it. But there are a lot of variables. If you eat a rocket to the face first turn, obviously you aren’t going to get a lot of use out of it. If your opponent’s leader gets snuffed early, limiting his CP generation/use, again less milage. In a multiplayer game? Could be broken as heck, depends on the fine print.

That’s also not taking into account the opportunity cost of not taking some of the other L2 upgrades.

But I’m not worried that this could be as broken as some of the 40k shenanigans. For one thing, there are a lot fewer places to generate abilities from. When you have fewer things overlapping, there are less opportunities for broken combos.

That all makes sense. Plus, barring a rule I am not aware of, you will be able to target characters freely to try to negate the buffs directly.