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As per the title really.

Looking at the plastic kit, which one is the Paragon?

I am guessing either then one with the banner or the one without a helmet?

The Codex lists the two separately within the squad, slightly different stats each, but says a Paladin Squad is made up of 1 Paragon, and 2 Paladins (then you can add on more Paladins)

If its the one with the banner, what (visually) sets that apart from a Paladin Ancient?

Is the paragon the unit leader? In which case the legs with the loin cloth distinguishes him from the rest.

You don't necessarily have to model it, just do some alternate aspects with the paint scheme. Different helmet colour for example or if the Paladin trim is red, make the Paragon's purple.

Absolutely nothing. Prior to 8th Ed,Paladins had no squad leader (originally coming as a single model unit in 5th with option to add) so you wont necessarily have a particular model pivked out with a better scheme or loincloth. Simply pick which one is the paragon when writing your list, although I advise picking one who gets the most out of the upgrade. If I recall correctly he gets WS2+ instead of 3+, and 4 attacks instead of 3? In which case, a Daemon Hammer is a good idea but equally is any of the other weapons.

Ok sweet thanks guys.

Where I was going with this, is I am trying to build a 100% metal grey knights army.

I think I might include some paladins but those were never made in metal, I have a few of the paladin plastic bits (the books above the head etc) so I will ebay 3 regular grey knight terminators which you can get metal, and then just add the plastic bits on.

BUDFORCE wrote:
Ok sweet thanks guys.

Where I was going with this, is I am trying to build a 100% metal grey knights army.

I think I might include some paladins but those were never made in metal, I have a few of the paladin plastic bits (the books above the head etc) so I will ebay 3 regular grey knight terminators which you can get metal, and then just add the plastic bits on.

The thing with Grey Knights is that very little distinguishes between squads. The only thing that differentiates Paladins and Terminators is the slightly different helmet. So then, hypothetically, what if you always model bare headed models? The answer then is they could be both equally and validly.

The thing with GW modes is that there is no set way to "differentiate" between models with identical wargear. I used the curved-snout helmets for paladins but also for a Dreadknight pilot, but another person might equally use only the classic helmet style. As long as your models are consistant (this squad of all curved heads are Paladins and this one with flat helmets are Terminators) within the same list, you dont have to worry.

So, to get to the point, dont worry about Paladins not being made in metal, using Terminators is fine. A word of warning -the little books behind their head are the most annoying parts ever made. They are extremely fragile, break off very easily and leave a raggedy ugly stump of plastic behind your model's head and ruings your paintjob. I would honestly advise skipping those parts altogether

@deadshot paladins actually have different heads, tilting shields, and a decoration that goes on top of their armour to distinguish them from regular terminators,, if built as gw intended. I'm not for a second trying to say that they have to be built as instructed, but if you do they are very distinct from each other.

 JamesY wrote:
@deadshot paladins actually have different heads, tilting shields, and a decoration that goes on top of their armour to distinguish them from regular terminators,, if built as gw intended. I'm not for a second trying to say that they have to be built as instructed, but if you do they are very distinct from each other.

The same decorations and tilting plates have also been shown used on Terminator squad justicars to make them more fancy, and Paladins have been shown lacking the decoration. The helmet style is one thing, but like I say, if one were to build their army entirely without helmets, bareheaded, what would distinguish a Terminator Squad from a Paladin Squa, or using alternate heads entirely, from a 3rd party vendor? Or a strike squad from a Purifier squad or Purgator Squad (as the only difference is the number of heavy weapons and white helmets).

I'm a big WYSIWYG proponent but paintjobs are not part of WYSIWYG, they are a paintjob, plus, WYSIWYG only applies to actual wargear options. A helmet is not a wargear option therefore it doesn't matter if you use the round heads, flat heads, no heads. What matters is consistancy. If you say that "These guys with the fancy tilt plates are paladins" then all must be Paladins unless they have some other distinguishing feature.

End point is, use the metal Terminators for Paladins if you like, and anyone who says you are wrong or illegal is not worth playing against and also factually wrong.

Yea I've only just got back into it all, used to play it as a kid.

It's nice going back in to it now as I have (a bit lol) more disposable income then I had so I can do the things I wanted to then.

I really want to make a 100% metal army a close to WYSIWYG as possible, but for my own purpose. When it comes to playing matches, unless they were trying to pass off an Ork gretchin as a land raider or something rediculous I would be pretty flexible about my opponent.

@deadshot it isn't a paint job issue at all. GW have included all of the components in the terminator box (which is the discussion point, I wasn't referring to the PA box) to create two distinct units. If a player chooses to mix up those parts up, then any WYSIWYG issues created aren't the fault of the kit. That said, I didn't like the lack of greater distinction myself, so kitbashed deathwing knights with GK terminators to make mine.

 JamesY wrote:
@deadshot it isn't a paint job issue at all. GW have included all of the components in the terminator box (which is the discussion point, I wasn't referring to the PA box) to create two distinct units. If a player chooses to mix up those parts up, then any WYSIWYG issues created aren't the fault of the kit. That said, I didn't like the lack of greater distinction myself, so kitbashed deathwing knights with GK terminators to make mine.

There are no WYSIWYG issues as the two helmets are just different styles, they serve no impact on the game. If I choose to use only the curved helmet for personal choice, that doesn't force me into declaring that all my GKTs are now Paladins.

My point about paintjob is that Purifiers and Purgators and Strike Squads all use the exact same model. What distinguishes them, physically, is that GKSS can only have 1-2 Heavy weapons and Purgators are 4, and Purifiers are 2-4. So, a squad of 10 with 4 weapons, or 5 with 2, can be either a Purifier or Purgator, while a squad with 10 and 2 heavies, or 5 and 1, can be any. Because the only difference, visually, is that Purifiers have white helmets. When removing that white helmet or choosing to use silver out of choice, that still doesn't create a WYSIWYG issue. Because WYSIWYG only relates to wargear, which paintjobs and headswaps do not effect.

So, as a result, metal GK termies with the flat snout can be legitimately used for Paladins with no issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BUDFORCE wrote:
Yea I've only just got back into it all, used to play it as a kid.

It's nice going back in to it now as I have (a bit lol) more disposable income then I had so I can do the things I wanted to then.

I really want to make a 100% metal army a close to WYSIWYG as possible, but for my own purpose. When it comes to playing matches, unless they were trying to pass off an Ork gretchin as a land raider or something rediculous I would be pretty flexible about my opponent.

I am in a similar position too, back in after another layoff with more quid to throw around! Great to hear you're trying to get back in, and as for building a wholely metal army, like I say, it won't stop you from using the newer unit types that have cme out since the days of metal grey knights, which are an army I really hope you enjoy collecting because they are very fun to collect, if not competitive in this day and age.

Yeah most of the grey knights can be got in metal, I made a 10 man interceptor squad by taking a regular metal 10 man strike squad, baught 10 of the plastic teleporter back packs and swapped them out.

Also when I am painting these 10 interceptors, I have differed my colour code, so my strike squad have red right side shoulder pads, whilst this interceptor squad I have painted the right hand shoulder pads and the "rods?" (for lack of a better word) of the teleporter back packs white.

The rest of the colours all match, but that that shoulder pad and back pack clearly seperate what is what.

I will post it all when I am done painting everything (my painting is only lets say a good tabletop standard, certainly not pro/studio level!) but I think once its all done it'll look nice together as an army.