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Hey everyone I'm a longtime 40K player and am looking at dipping my toes into AoS. The Duaghters of Khaine army has really appealed to me (particularly Morathi and the Melusai), I've got a few questions about starting a force for them for those who have the time. I have a box of Witch aelves that I robbed the sisters of slaughter helms from to convert some Bloodbrides for me Dark Eldar and so I can make them as my first battleline unit. I also have Morathi as she was a gift from my gf who knew the painter in me was chomping at the bit to get a chance to paint her. If at all possible I'd like to start with these and build from there. I have the Army book but not the generals handbook as I didn't know at the time it was a requirement to play. I'm basing my points on those printed in the army book, I understand they may be out of date if there was changes in the generals handbook. Here's the 1000 point list I wrote to plan out my purchases. I'm only a casual player so it doesn't have to be very competitive but I'm hoping to be able to put up a fight against other casual lists.

Morathi (Leader)
Witch Aelves x10 (Battleline)
Sisters of Slaughter x10 (Battleline)
Blood Sisters x5
Blood Stalkers x5

As long as my math is right that should be 1000 points and legal for matched play.

So my questions are as follows:

1. Is the list above legal for matched play and able to stand on its own in a casual setting?
2. Will I be seen as TFG for bringing Morathi in a 1000 point battle? I'm unfamiliar of the power curves of AoS and I'm not sure if bringing her will be seen as unsportsmanlike.
3. Since Morathi is my general does she get a relic and warlord trait? (I'm used to 40k where named characters can't be modified but I'm not seeing that restriction here in AoS)
4. So once I have my army I'd choose which army rules they use as well (one of the 4 temples) and will the temple rules apply to Morathi as well?

Thank you all in advance for any help you can give me in learning how to start this force off and planning my purchases.

Thoughts:
1) It's legal, standing on its own depends on how you play as you have a lot of eggs in one basket - ergo Morathi.

2) TFG cheats, if its legal to the rules you are fine. In general whilst there are powerful mages in the game, they are offset by being very expensive in points. You might be a powerhouse in damage, but on the flipside might find it very hard to spread out to capture and hold objectives. So you might win on killing but lose matches overall if you can't achieve the game goals. Of course her damage mechanic might make some think she's broken until they learn to deal with her or to ignore and focus on the map objectives instead of just outright killing

3) As she has the hero key word she operates like any other hero and thus she gets a relic and a warlord trait.

4) Temple rules apply to all models in the army including heros and generals.


One thought for you consideration is that Daughters are very much a glass cannon type faction; able to hit hard when they hit but fragile unless backed up with the right synergy of support and temple choice. You've not got any queens, esp hag queens in this list so that means you're not able to draw out witchbrew to help out your combat units. In addition each one is only 10 models large. Morathi is really pushing you on the points you've got left to build a working army and you might consider dropping the blood stalkers to free up some points - that would give you enough to give you another 10 witch aelves and 1 hag queen in the army.

 Overread wrote:
Thoughts:

3) As she has the hero key word she operates like any other hero and thus she gets a relic and a warlord trait.

Named heroes don't get an artifact or trait.

*really needs to learn to double check his books when giving advice*

Thank you very much for the advice guys, I feel like an idiot for not catching that named characters rules near the back, would have cleared some stuff up.

On a related note for the temples that say I "must" take a specific relic or command trait, since I can't do that if Morathi is my only hero does that stop me from being able to choose that temple for my army?

As for the list suggestion I like idea of more Witch Aelves with a priest as that would make for a good punchy unit but my concern is in giving up the Blood Stalkers. My plan was to keep Morathi with them using her ability to allow them to shoot more until the battle is pitched then go beast-mode and throw monster Morathi in the fray when the time is right. Without them would Morathi be too alone in the backfield slinging spells and not using her command trait or I could move her up the field with the force but then she's in more danger being in the thick of things. Just trying to think of a good place for her until it's time to turn into a monster.

I did think of the durability of this list being a problem as well so my thinking is to use the Khailebron (I think that's the right name) for -1 to hit me at range to help keep the ladies safer until melee range where I have bladed bucklers for a slight armor boost and that nifty mostal wounds rule. Perhaps some buff sorcery from Morathi could help their survivability as well but I'll certainly have to take a closer look at the spells to see what would help.

I'm also wondering about the Hag Queen, since the start collecting box is no longer made and the only way to get the heroes is with that cauldron is there any GW kits that make for pretty good conversions into hags? Converting a witch aelf would be easy enough but then I'm running into under strength squads since my tenth lady is used to make a Hag. Any sugestions on this would be much appreciated.

As always thank you guys for your help with these questions.

A few thoughts:

1) Even Blood Stalkers don't really want to be just shooting, pretty much the entire DoK range is either pure close combat or a skirmisher which moves forward, fires and then gets itself into close combat as well. The stalkers are also not "as good" as their close combat sisters and honestly they feel like they could do with more attacks on their ranged attack - right now they are sort of stuck being a jack of all trades but master of none.
I understand your desire to have some company for Morathi , but then again don't forget that her wound mechanic and transformation trick play well to her if she does get left out in the open for a turn. Plus she's a powerhouse in close combat when transformed so having her move forward with the rest of the army is a good thing as it means when she transforms she's there and ready within range to strike, rather than having to lose a turn moving up from a rear position.

2) Have a look at 3rd party retailers and also ebay and your local GW store. The Cauldron and Witch Aelf boxed set is no longer made, but it seems GW had a LOT of it in stock in the distribution network. Many UK stores at least are still getting stock of it (my impression is that either GW has a communications breakdown and its still being made to order; or there is just a mountain of them bought up by a distribution company and being teased out as retail stores buy them up). Even without buying a cauldron in that set, the model alone is quite the saving when you consider that you can get several heroes and the cauldron from one kit. If you put a little magnet on the foot of the queens then you can swap them over as needed (if you want you can even magnetize it to do both cauldron and shrine).

Thank you for your advice once again overread. I've made a couple lists, one using your advice and another one I brainstormed up I'd like some input on how they may perform.

List 1:

Morathi (Leader, General)
Hag Queen (Leader)
Witch Aelves x20 (Battleline)
Sisters of Slaughter x10 (Battleline)
Blood Sisters x5

This list gives me more bodies on the board and a good 20 sisters unit to use witchbrew on. As long as my math is right it should clock in at 1000 points exactly.

List 2:

Morathi (Leader, General)
Witch Aelves x10 (Battleline)
Sisters of Slaughter x10 (Battleline)
Blood sisters x5
Khinerai Heartrenders x5
Khinerai Heartrenders x5

The idea behind this list being that I still have the extra 10 bodies on the field but in this form they're a deep striking harassment unit. I have them split in two units of 5 for versatility right now but I could run them as a blob of 10 to capitalize on certain buffs down the road.

So how do you guys feel about these two lists? Do you think either will fare alright in a casual setting?

Personally I love khinerai models (even though they are stupidly delicate on their tails) and so I'd probably run list 2 even just for fun to see how it works! The trick with them is to realise that they are very fragile and only have one wound. Therefore you've got to be crafty in how you use them.

Bring them in behind an already engaged force so that they can help out your other units defeating them

Bring them in on an objective that is uncontested late game to secure it

Bring them in en-mass to snipe at or at least tangle up a loan mage or siege engine or even group of archers.

Bring them in and don't forget that they can move right after making their ranged attack (if you roll a +4 so don't bank on it happening every time). And with flying that means you could hit a unit on one side of some impassable terrain and then flee to the other side out of retaliation reach.
Plus the turn they are deployed they have a -2 rend on their javelins. Two units of them could dish out some nasty damage on a high armour target for you - that could be a nasty mage or hero or just throwing them into the back of some monster unit so that your other units can finish it off etc...


Their key weakness is how fragile they are, the rest of them is almost purely a bonus.

Thank you overread once again, I feel the heartrender list would be a lot more fun to play personally over the first list and it offers some tactical versatility with dropping units that can fly around.

I thought of one last possible list before I commit to my purchases and wouldn't mind a bit of input on it.

Morathi (Leader, General)
Witch Aelves x10 (Battleline)
Witch Aelves x10 (Battleline)
Blood Stalkers x5
Blood Stalkers x5

The advantage to this list I can see is that since Morathis command trait lets her pick two units I'd get to double tap both my Stalker units each turn, doubling their effectiveness.

It also has the advantage of getting me almost half the units I need for a Temple Nest which is a warscroll battalion I am interested in running as I grow this force to bigger point battles.