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So in the Henry Cavill thread we were discussing Batman too and Christian Bale came up, and I thought about how both are British actors playing Americans. I know there are a whole host of other movies where the same happened, and even in some cases Americans playing British, like the Robert Downey Jr Sherlock Holmes movies. I always suspected that most American actors would be rejected by British audiences because they would fail on the accents. Granted, the US has some pretty diverse accents as well, but maybe not noticed by foreigners (like someone from rural Georgia to Queens to Boston to Minneapolis to Dallas and so on). I wouldn't know the specifics, but I heard the english accent is just as diverse depending on where they might be from, but to most Americans it would all sound the same.
So if you are a Brit, or from anywhere else as a matter of fact, and you're an actor playing an average American, how would you plan to sound? Or what influences would you use? I had a friend who was teased when she was in the UK, as she was asked to say 'whatever' all the time, which I have to admit we Americans use ALL THE TIME. I am curious what influences you.
Simply slow down and pronounce the whole word, every word. Most accents are just people talking too fast and clipping out parts of words - some of the thicker England or Jamaican accents are prime examples of this.
But you're also right that there are many, many phrases that are basically unique to regions that have accents. Southern USA has "y'all", which is a shortened "you all", which isn't something that's even said in many other places.
But even relatively un-accented places* have those too. The more famous one for Canadians is "Eh?" - which is used less often than you think, or odd pronunciations like "aboot" for about. And don't get me started about the letter Zed, which is acceptable in Canada but boggles the mind of some Americans.
*meaning, where the English spoken matches the English used by popular news/media in the USA and Canada because it's the easiest to understand.
You'd absolutely tell the difference. Just like we can tell the difference in US accents.
Now, I doubt you could tell the difference between Geordie (Newcastle) Mackem (Sunderland) or Middlesbrough, neither could most not from the region, but you absolutely could tell a North East accent from a London or Essex accent. Just like you could tell a Westcountry accent (every country bumpkin character in TV ever) from Yorkshire.
We can tell the broad strokes of US too. I may not be able to tell a Georgia accent from a Louisiana accent, but I can tell "Southern," or New York, or Boston or Texan. I may be ignorant to the subtleties a native would pick up on, but I can tell.
Although please spare a thought for a (very cute) nurse who looked after me in a recent hospital stay, she'd been born on the West Coast but grew up in Portugal. The two accents clashed and she now sounds Canadian!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
For instance, the west coast is more nasal. Highlands and Islands more sing-song.
Edinburgh? Well, there’s ‘standard’, and there’s Morningside. In Morningside, sex is what the coalman brings the coal in, rates are horrible vermin in the cellar.
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That's pretty much the same as everywhere. Plymouth is janner and different from the rest of Devon, which is different in turn from Somerset or Cornwall or Bristol etc. Northern Irish vs Irish, Cork vs Dublin.
Scotland's not really any different in that regard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/26 22:13:07
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
John Prins wrote: Simply slow down and pronounce the whole word, every word. Most accents are just people talking too fast and clipping out parts of words - some of the thicker England or Jamaican accents are prime examples of this.
Okay this makes some sense. I also feel that the English accent tends to sound more sophisticated or even classy even when the person speaking might be a total clown. And I mean this on the average. I would know a dumb Brit just as I would know an American.
I wonder too, besides ya’ll and whatever, what else we are known to say. Like the brits own Bloody (which I could never understand how that was offensive) and bugger and spanker.
KTG17 wrote: the English accent tends to sound more sophisticated or even classy even when the person speaking might be a total clown
At the risk of politics, I would offer a certain "JR-M" as the proof of this rule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/27 00:35:09
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Ah, general Americanisms. A bigger universal difference than our dialect, is our habit of smiling all the time, and insincerely inquiring after how people are.
I think because you see such a mishmash on TV and movies usually, it's only going to come up and be an issue when you attempt a regional accent. My own is all but unidentifiable, as my parents have tried to expunge their West Virginia Appalachian, and I grew up in Southern Florida- an area rife with different accents. Then I moved to Georgia for 3 or 4 years, right in the midst of my teenage years. I'm left with a very few artifacts that betray my origins, like pronouncing 'roof' as ruff.
I will rarely pick up someone trying a generic American accent, but a bad Southern accent, or Appalachian, sets off my radar like nothing else. It's only when people get too fancy, or mix and match that it falls apart.
This quiz demonstrates how very broad our dialects can be, even before you get into pronunciations.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
John Prins wrote: Simply slow down and pronounce the whole word, every word. Most accents are just people talking too fast and clipping out parts of words - some of the thicker England or Jamaican accents are prime examples of this.
Okay this makes some sense. I also feel that the English accent tends to sound more sophisticated or even classy even when the person speaking might be a total clown. And I mean this on the average. I would know a dumb Brit just as I would know an American.
I wonder too, besides ya’ll and whatever, what else we are known to say. Like the brits own Bloody (which I could never understand how that was offensive) and bugger and spanker.
It's not that bloody is in and of itself offensive, it is more representative of the fact that our usual polite unto death demeanor is cracking and therefore something really bad is about to happen.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
If one wants to figure out how a brit can pull off "acting" american, I would suggest looking up Dr. Gregory House. . .
So, I was watching a video last night in which they discussed how the show's creator wanted VERY SPECIFICALLY an "american doctor". . . Hugh Laurie walks in and fools the gak out of the show creator as said creator then showed the audtition clip and said "see!! this is the kind of American I want"
Almost without exception, people who meet me for the first time are convinced I'm Irish. I was born and raised in the North-East of England and have lived in the Midlands and South-West France. I have never even been to Ireland. Yet even people from the town I was born in think I'm Irish. Accents can be funny things.
John Prins wrote:The more famous one for Canadians is "Eh?" - which is used less often than you think, or odd pronunciations like "aboot" for about.
I have family near Toronto, and I have literally never heard any of them use "eh?" in the way Americans seem to think Canadians talk. And "aboot" sounds Scottish to me, though that would make sense since a lot of Canadians are of Scottish ancestry. Actually, the British stereotype of Canadians is probably "Scottish, but more polite". If you tried to do the American stereotype of Canadians with all the "eh?"s here, I doubt many people would recognise it (and those who did would only be recognising it from imported US media).
KTG17 wrote:Like the brits own Bloody (which I could never understand how that was offensive)
It's a contraction of "By Our Lady!" (i.e. the Virgin Mary). It's hardly considered offensive at all these days, but was pretty strong stuff back when we took religion seriously.
My one and only attempt at an 'American' accent was playing the Wizard of Oz in a school production when I was (IIRC) 13-14. He's supposed to be from Omaha, but I think the accent I was doing was the Louisiana sheriff from those two James Bond films. Because Omaha is next to Kansas, so it must be in The South, right?
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
For instance, the west coast is more nasal. Highlands and Islands more sing-song.
Edinburgh? Well, there’s ‘standard’, and there’s Morningside. In Morningside, sex is what the coalman brings the coal in, rates are horrible vermin in the cellar.
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
John Prins wrote: But even relatively un-accented places* have those too. The more famous one for Canadians is "Eh?" - which is used less often than you think, or odd pronunciations like "aboot" for about. And don't get me started about the letter Zed, which is acceptable in Canada but boggles the mind of some Americans.
No, it sounds more like "a boat". "Aboot" isn't even close unless it's a Newfoundland thing.
Having worked with Canadians for 20 years yes, some say about. The westerners said took a lot because they measured snow in meters. A bunch sounded like they were from Minnesota. The Nova Scotians were very different, and the French ones were different again. Their French accent was definitely not Cajun or Haitian...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
So in the Henry Cavill thread we were discussing Batman too and Christian Bale came up, and I thought about how both are British actors playing Americans. I know there are a whole host of other movies where the same happened, and even in some cases Americans playing British, like the Robert Downey Jr Sherlock Holmes movies. I always suspected that most American actors would be rejected by British audiences because they would fail on the accents. Granted, the US has some pretty diverse accents as well, but maybe not noticed by foreigners (like someone from rural Georgia to Queens to Boston to Minneapolis to Dallas and so on). I wouldn't know the specifics, but I heard the english accent is just as diverse depending on where they might be from, but to most Americans it would all sound the same.
There was an interview I watched with one of the Walking Dead producers where they were talking generally about how they'd found British actors were much better at doing regional US accents than actual Yanks who tended to struggle with shedding their or adapting their normal accent.
To the underlined, the majority of Americans I've heard attempting a British accent mangle it and/or go for a very plummy, stereotypically posh or vaguely cockney version, RDJ and Chris Hardwick are the only two decent attempts I can recall.
Antipodeans tend to fare better as many of them have recent relatives from the UK, though Russell Crowe's Robin Hood has an hilariously nomadic accent that takes in a lot of the UK within a single sentence.
I thought I was really hot at identifying UK actors playing Americans and Vice Versa; specifically, if the accent is well done, you look for the pronounciation of certain words (eg route- if you hear an English accent but they say it "rout" rather than "root", you've got an American actor). Then I read that sometimes even British actors are asked to pronounce words in the American style for the American audience and I lost all confidence in what was what, at least when it came to American accents. I can still pick out a fake UK accent from a mile away, well done or not.
I think that Antipodean actors and possibly Canadian actors grow up far more with British TV which helps them with a convincing accent and the correct pronounciation of some words.
That said, I think because many UK accents are underrepresented even on British TV many of them will be hard to understand elsewhere (I had to live in both the valleys and Scotland before I was confident in listening to their respective accents)
Fairly easy - go to websters dictionary online and listen to a few words being pronounced. Those pronunciations - that is pretty much how most Americans talk - provided they don't live in Louisiana / New England / or Wisconsin.
There you go - pretty much. Americans move around to much to have accents. Accents develop when people stay in 1 place for a long time.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
John Prins wrote: But even relatively un-accented places* have those too. The more famous one for Canadians is "Eh?" - which is used less often than you think, or odd pronunciations like "aboot" for about. And don't get me started about the letter Zed, which is acceptable in Canada but boggles the mind of some Americans.
No, it sounds more like "a boat". "Aboot" isn't even close unless it's a Newfoundland thing.
one of the guys in my unit at Campbell originally grew up in Canada and definitely pronounced it a-boot. . . He also said pro-cess and other distinctly canadian things (he'd only say "eh" when we were joking about canada and he was hamming up his accent), but. . . he grew up somewhere between Toronto and Quebec city, and still spoke very good Quebecois.
To the underlined, the majority of Americans I've heard attempting a British accent mangle it and/or go for a very plummy, stereotypically posh or vaguely cockney version, RDJ and Chris Hardwick are the only two decent attempts I can recall.
Just out of curiosity, what about Brad Pitt in "Snatch" ?? I mean, we know its not English, and it ain't Irish. . .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/27 16:13:12
Did the stereotype of Canadians saying "eh" begin with the characters of Bob and Doug McKenzie from SCTV and Strange Brew? They definitely said that a lot.
I can do a Scottish accent really well because I use a lot of quotes from Trainspotting on a daily basis. English accents are really difficult to me -I get tongue tied.
I don't know what it is about it. Loved English office (that is my primary exposure)
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Fairly easy - go to websters dictionary online and listen to a few words being pronounced. Those pronunciations - that is pretty much how most Americans talk - provided they don't live in Louisiana / New England / or Wisconsin.
There you go - pretty much. Americans move around to much to have accents. Accents develop when people stay in 1 place for a long time.
Actually most Americans stay within 50 miles of where they grew up. The majority have identifiable accents/slang/word choice (though tend not to believe that).
It isn't true for people in entertainment, or certain types of business, but when you're generalizing about the majority of the population, they're statistically insignificant.
The dictionary pronunciations are newsreader pronunciations. People who've trained out their accents (or machines to imitate them). Very few actual people talk that way.
John Prins wrote: But even relatively un-accented places* have those too. The more famous one for Canadians is "Eh?" - which is used less often than you think, or odd pronunciations like "aboot" for about. And don't get me started about the letter Zed, which is acceptable in Canada but boggles the mind of some Americans.
No, it sounds more like "a boat". "Aboot" isn't even close unless it's a Newfoundland thing.
one of the guys in my unit at Campbell originally grew up in Canada and definitely pronounced it a-boot. . . He also said pro-cess and other distinctly canadian things (he'd only say "eh" when we were joking about canada and he was hamming up his accent), but. . . he grew up somewhere between Toronto and Quebec city, and still spoke very good Quebecois.
To the underlined, the majority of Americans I've heard attempting a British accent mangle it and/or go for a very plummy, stereotypically posh or vaguely cockney version, RDJ and Chris Hardwick are the only two decent attempts I can recall.
Just out of curiosity, what about Brad Pitt in "Snatch" ?? I mean, we know its not English, and it ain't Irish. . .
From my experience with Travellers, it was a pretty good attempt at the deliberate un-intelligibility many attempt while trying to fleece you (some stereotypes are true...),most other times they're generally easier to understand. Though they were pretty difficult to get when a few them jumped a couple of us for simply not having cigarettes to offer them when they asked, the s. Sorry, Travellers are a bit of a sore subject amongst pretty much anyone who's had to engage with them.
Pitt's Snatch accent is certainly more authentic than his crack at actual Irish in The Devil's Own!
For instance, the west coast is more nasal. Highlands and Islands more sing-song.
Edinburgh? Well, there’s ‘standard’, and there’s Morningside. In Morningside, sex is what the coalman brings the coal in, rates are horrible vermin in the cellar.
The highlands and islands accents - especially the Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland - are still very Scandinavian-influenced, rather like the Minnesota accent - 600 years after the Norse stopped ruling any of them.
My understanding was that Brad Pitt was supposed to be playing an Irishman in Snatch, but since his accent was so awful, they changed it. Hugh Laurie's American accent apparently fooled Bryan Singer when he was auditioning for House; "To make things even funnier, Singer was totally unaware that Hugh Laurie was English to the point that upon seeing his audition tape, he turned to his crew and said: “See, this is what I want: an American guy” "
http://www.factfiend.com/director-house-didnt-realise-hugh-laurie-british/
I've also heard that one reason why Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent in Mary Poppins was so awful was that his voice coach was … a Geordie (like Ant and Dec, Cheryl Cole and … I can't think of any others Americans might have heard of ). That's like trying to learn a Boston accent from a Brooklynite. After that, he just didn't bother in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, and took the Sean Connery attitude.
Al Murray on Scottish accents (NSFW!)
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/09/27 18:36:07
As an American who watches a lot of foreign actors portray American characters I can tell you that they frequently dont slund like any regional American accent, but often sound cool because they put soo much thought into their pronunciation.
Rick, Maggie, and Morgan on the Walking Dead all sound intense when they speak but they don't sound like any regional accent.
I talk to people on the phone most of the day from all over the country, and to me, it seems that people from Minnesota have more of the stereotypical "Canadian" accent that a lot of American's see as how Canadians talk. I have talked to quite a few Canadians here in the Northwest and most sound pretty much like anyone else, except you get the occasional word that catches you and makes you think "there it is".
Funny thing though, I grew up south of Houston and had a pretty thick Texas accent and manner of speech. I have moved all over the place since then and pretty much have no accent anymore. BUT! When I talk to my friends in Texas it comes roaring back, sticks around for a couple hours, then goes away again. Its funny because my wife tells me when it happens that she can barely understand me (she's from Connecticut)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and the first time I heard Hugh Laurie talk in his normal accent I was passing through the living room and my wife was watching him do an interview on TV. I made it to the next room before it hit me that it was him talking and he wasn't being interviewed by some English person. I actually turned around and came back to confirm. I was blown away
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/27 18:42:09
adamsouza wrote: As an American who watches a lot of foreign actors portray American characters I can tell you that they frequently dont slund like any regional American accent, but often sound cool because they put soo much thought into their pronunciation.
Rick, Maggie, and Morgan on the Walking Dead all sound intense when they speak but they don't sound like any regional accent.
Rick and Maggie sound like a Yankee's version of a Southerner.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
adamsouza wrote: As an American who watches a lot of foreign actors portray American characters I can tell you that they frequently dont slund like any regional American accent, but often sound cool because they put soo much thought into their pronunciation.
Rick, Maggie, and Morgan on the Walking Dead all sound intense when they speak but they don't sound like any regional accent.
Honestly, I think that its because outside of a few stereotypical spots, we don't really have true and honest "regional" dialects. . . For instance, the Brooklyn/Bronx accent that you see on TV may be common in those borroughs (I wouldn't know, never been myself), but a number of my friends are from outside The City (as they call it), with even a NY buddy of mine from the army being from Buffalo and none have anything remotely close to what you'd call an accent, much less one that resembles one as distinctive as the Bronx.
Same with Boston accents. Another friend of mine grew up in the Boston area, but does not have a "boston accent". . . he does have AN accent, but that's more hobby related and not regional (more on that in a bit).
The same is true of a number of people I've met from the upper Midwest. Sure, there were the oddballs in there that did have the strong Minnesota/Wisconsin accent, but for most, other than the odd regional turn of phrase they did not sound like they were from those places.
The West Coast, where I grew up and live now, I do not think has a "native" accent. . . You'll get the oddball wanna be "cowboy accent" (as some round here have called it. . . its a gakky mix of southern/texan accents, and they are the tight jean wearin wannabe cowboys) but having traveled the country and world thanks to the army, the vast majority of people have needed to ask where I'm from, because we simply do not have a "real" accent when compared to areas that do have a regional sound.
The one other common accent I've come across that isn't regional, is that of the token stoner, and I think we all know either someone who sounds like this, or have seen a film/tv show where its been used.
s. Sorry, Travellers are a bit of a sore subject amongst pretty much anyone who's had to engage with them.
Hugh Laurie's American accent apparently fooled Bryan Singer when he was auditioning for House; "To make things even funnier, Singer was totally unaware that Hugh Laurie was English to the point that upon seeing his audition tape, he turned to his crew and said: “See, this is what I want: an American guy” "
