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Wondering if some worlds desperate enough would try and strike a deal with ork mercenaries to help defend their planet? Were the notable ork groups like blood axes, who might do that sort of work even around in 30l? Thoughts?

Fractured elements of various klans probably existed since the ork empire of Charadon fell right before Horus is made warmaster.

I don't see any legion forces hiring them, but a planetary governor or trader militant...I dunno, maybe?

You can make militia squads with T4, WS4, A2 if inclined to try and produce such an army...

Yes I’m thinking about using orks to represent Ogryns in my Milita Force. Have done a bit of skimming or ork fluff and it seems Blood Axes of Freebotaz would be the best candidates for that kind of work but woukd those ork clans be around in the Heresy era?

I would think that for a planetary governor who finds themself having to survive in the age of strife and send his or her forces against Legionaries, having a contingent of orks on the frontline might be a good boost to the close Combat ability of the average Milita Force.

I’m thinking it could come about as kind of a recreation of the Vikings vs France thing, where they are bought off from raiding to aid the Milita vs a common foe.

Were any Ork clans around during the HH? I thought they said they emerged during the War of the Beast? (Or was it just when the Imperium noticed them? )

beast_gts wrote:
Were any Ork clans around during the HH? I thought they said they emerged during the War of the Beast? (Or was it just when the Imperium noticed them? )

Right, that’s what I’m wondering as well.

The general argument against such things is that the Heresy was a human only affair and nobody would ally with xenos even if any had been around.. but the Adeptus Titanicus rulebook copy-pastes one of the classic 1st edition bits of fluff about Eldar fighting alongside the loyalists (IIRC it also namedrops another instance), so I don't see why the contemporary fluff about Orks being available to traitors shouldn't still stand.

Clans are genetic lineages rather than political entities, so I don't imagine they came into existance with the War of the Beast.

 Gashrog wrote:
The general argument against such things is that the Heresy was a human only affair and nobody would ally with xenos even if any had been around.. but the Adeptus Titanicus rulebook copy-pastes one of the classic 1st edition bits of fluff about Eldar fighting alongside the loyalists (IIRC it also namedrops another instance), so I don't see why the contemporary fluff about Orks being available to traitors shouldn't still stand.

Clans are genetic lineages rather than political entities, so I don't imagine they came into existance with the War of the Beast.

Thanks Gashrog, good thing my Milita are traitors then . What clans would be more likely to accept a mercenary contract, and what would they be paid with? I like to write up some personal fluff for my forces so that info would help me. I imagine Weapons would be a good way to pay them?

Blood Axe, more than anything, and yes. Freebootaz aren't a clan but a term for ork mercenaries - a freeboota can be (and is likely to be) a blood axe.

Old Quote:
"They cannot be bargained with or bought save with weapons that they will inevitable turn against those who tried to bribe them."


I tried sitting down to figure this out once as a proper merc list (rather than just using ogryns).

'Warboss' - blast pistol, power fist, abhuman helots, feral warriors.

Levy for boyz - laslocks and blade & fury. Discipline collars for mob rule and discipline masters for nobz.

So blood axes and and freebootaz are essentially the same thing? Or is it like all blood axes are freebootaz, but not all freebootaz are blood axes?

Yeah, I’m thinking of dipping back into regular 40k, and being able to use orks as a pseudo-Militia list would be awesome. And I’ve never done Xenos before so it would be a good break for me

Not all Blood Axes are Freebootaz and not all Freebootaz are Blood Axes. Freebootaz are orks that are more interested in space piracy than traditional Waaagh!s of conquest. Freebootaz are often depicted as renegades cast out of Ork society who throw off their previous clan identities, but that doesn't always seem to be the case.

Working for one of the lesser species rather than killing, eating and/or enslaving them is considered suspicious and un-orky behavior. Freebootaz who are already outside of ork society wouldn't have as many compunctions about doing things other orks would regard as unseemly.

The Blood Axe clan is often regarded as suspiciously un-orky because they do things like sneak around in the dark and hire themselves out as mercenaries. Blood Axes can certainly become Freebootaz, but it also wouldn't be out of character for them to be working as mercenaries even if they aren't Freebootaz.

Bad Moons often become Freeboota pirates as they have both the wealth to afford spaceships and a desire for yet more wealth. (Bad Moons are the wealthiest of the ork clans.) Flash Gitz (the models with giant guns and pirate hats) most often come from the Bad Moons clan and they are sometimes kicked out of their tribes for being insufferable show-offs.

Ok I’m liking all of this information thanks a lot guys. So clans kinda work like Space Marine chapters in a way expect that heraldry (or the orks equivalent) is a lot looser? So for instance if I wanted to have Freebootaz in my Army I needn’t paint them up in a particular livery?

Goff’s seem to be the orkiest orks so I imagine they wouldn’t be hiring themselves out? Too bad cause I like their black and checkers look

The clans appear to have been around since time immemorial - by latest versions of the background, they appear to have been genetically engineered into the boyz by the Brainboyz millions of years ago to allow a degree of specialisation and independent operation.

Since the brainboyz aren't about any more (either being Snotlings, The Old Ones, dead or a combination) it's difficult to be sure what the clan specialisations were meant to be but a rough guide is (in my opinion):

Goffs - currently close combat specialists, likely originally intended for CC and frontline assault duty. Also a tendency towards local leadership

Blood Axes - Sneaky gitz, will work with aliens. Lts of Kommandos. Will actually use tactics like retreating. Likely originally a strategic class of Ork, responsible for planning and particularly suited for spec ops.

Bad Moons - the rich gitz, generally traders and show offs. More weirdboyz than other clanz. Likely originally the Ork logistics and interstellar communication corp.

Evil Sunz - borderline speed freeks. Likely originally long range mechanised infantry, scouting and reconnaissance

Deffskulls - looters and thieves. Superstitious and believe that blue is lucky. Likely originally battlefield recovery specialists and field engineers.

Snakebites - "Old fashioned" orks, emphasis on tradition and toughness. Likely originally a low logistics force for long term campaigns involving little support in wilderness environments.

There were other, minor clans waaaaay back in the 90's like the White Spiders, but these seem to be a more localised aberration.

Orks then live in tribes, which may compose many clans.

Freebooters are Orks who've been kicked out of or left their tribe for some transgression - may include things such as Bad Doks or the Kult of Speed, dispossessed Nobs etc. They tend to group together and become some extremely unsavoury characters, who will see no act as too low. Some of them get lucky and get rich, becoming Flash Gitz. A freebooter army could look like anything, as by definition it consists of outcasts.

Also, at one point, the Blood Axes were supposedly dominant until a massive Ork civil war known as The Big Party, since when they've been on an equal (or indeed lower) footing than the other clans who regard them with suspicion. This may be the reason for their traditional willingness to ally with aliens, dating back to a time when they needed support from outwith Orkdom, or it may simply be that the Brainboyz realised that there are times you need to co-operate to annihilate Necrons.

I wonder if the new Ork codex will touch on the clan origins.

At multiple points through the Beast Arises series, characters notice the Orks wearing insignias we would recognize as Goffs or Blood Axes, but nobody, even experienced space marines seem to connect the symbol with any particular clan or faction, I do think they eventually notice, at least personally, the general tactics employed by those wearing certain sigils.

It seemed to me that they were implying, very strongly, that the ork clans we know today came about during the Waaaaagh The Beast. That in response to the space marine legions nearly wiping the Orks out, multiple unprecidently powerful Prime-Orks arose at around the same time, each tailoring the Orks under them to their own tastes, decking the out in colours and insignias they find evocative, and the clans as we know them today are descended from their influence.

Perhaps the Imperium had not really bothered to codify the different types beyond their threat on the battlefield. They might have considered learning about the orks culture redundant at the height of the crusade since after ullanor it probably seemed that the ork threat was pretty much neutralized in the long term, beside mopping up. Perhaps the Beast and the sudden resurgence of the orks meant that Magos Biologis and other scholars began to take a greater interest in studying the xenos?

beast_gts wrote:
Were any Ork clans around during the HH? I thought they said they emerged during the War of the Beast? (Or was it just when the Imperium noticed them? )

Well if you follow the Ork fluff back to the days when GW first thought of the HH to sell a 6mm scale game they had the Orks had clans, but were also largely a family structure.

not hard to see a warboss of some sort, or even just a boss of a large family acting as mercenaries and pirates, they get loot and they get to fight, they then get to fight again when told to stop fighting, whats not to like?

even with the six big clans there are always going to be smaller offshoots, isolated groups, stranded groups etc who will be happy for the chance to go somewhere and fight.

question is as much who would be mad enough to give money and opportunity to Orks? presumably the desperate...

bribing an ork clan or household to go and fight is one thing, fighting alongside them... is a bit different.

Blood Axes used to in fluff get human advisors, sure at one point they could take Rhinos as well.

its a big universe, its bound to have happened a few times