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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Trowbridge

Citadel paints have been my main go to paints since they first appeared in the 80's.I have always had a love hate relationship with them for one reason or another. But generally they have been a reasonable paint and are easy to get hold of which is why they have remained my main go to paints.

Recently however I am finding problems with brand mew paints and have taken to opening bottles in the shop before I leave to make sure they are OK.

White Scar is a recently affected paint from new. Several I have handed back to the shop assistant as it has separated badly and cannot be remixed. Some of the bronze colours also had separated badly and could not be mixed from new as well. The pigment forming a rubber like ball in its medium. Ceramite white seems to look and act more and more like porridge each time I buy a tub. Golden Griffon a dry paint seems to be floating around in a clear liquid and is unusable, and a new pot of Ryza Rust is as liquid almost as a layer paint. The edge paints have gone and done some weird things from new(like trying to turn to concrete under the medium ).Even the Lahmian medium seems to have gained a brownish tint when compared to an older tub when held up to the light a looked through.

I have seen similar affected paints in several local shops to me lately. Some of the people working in these shops already seem to know of the problems with the paints as they are hobbyists themselves. Some remove the affected stock whilst other keep trying to sell the stuff to clear it as quickly from their shelves as they can. Even with the shops that remove the affected tubs the new replacement batch of paint(the recent one being white scar) is no better.

It's all getting a bit silly at the moment, that much so I am seriously thinking about changing my main go to paint line even if I have to buy it in from online sources.

My questions are, is there a quality issue with Citadel paints at the moment and what other colours have been affected.

   
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Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

I think certain ones are troublemakers. I tend to buy vallejo air/game colour at the moment. The dropper bottles mean no rim crust and allow a good shake of they do separate.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Armpit of NY

Ceramite White has been awful since its release, so that is not news. Pretty much all metallics have a tendency to separate. Imperial Primer was so bad, it has been dropped from the line altogether.

But other paint lines are not free of issues, either. I have an extensive Vallejo collection as well. Use them long enough, for example, and you will discover their color consistency is not always as precise as I would like. IE, a German Grey I bought two years ago does noticeably not match a German Grey I bought last month, etc.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Virginia

I just bought a ceramite white that is a chunky granular mess. I spread it out on wax paper with a toothpick and move the chunks away.
   
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Ship's Officer





Dallas, TX

There is nothing acrylic medium or metallic mediums and some water can't fix, just add and stir with a metal file to crunch the condensed pigments.

concerning lahmian medium: you might of used a dirty brush and contaminated the clear pot, not the end of the world in most usable situations.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Trowbridge

As I said in my original post they are all new pots,still sealed and in the shops.

There will be no contamination from a dirty brush as far as Lahmian medium is concerned. I tend to transfer medium into dropper bottles when I need it as I find getting the correct quantity I need a lot easier.

All the pots are checked after purchase before I leave the shops. That way I hand them back for exchange or money back at point of sale. The sales assistant cannot argue with me if they see the problem first hand.

Imperial primer I only tried once then threw it out. Even after 2 days drying it happily rubbed from both plastic and metal miniatures. I guessed if it would not stick then it would not of been able to hold the paint I applied after. I agree with Ceramite white, Its always had a very chalky and grainy consistency.

I have tried adding acrylic medium to the affected bronzes even after mixing like mad they turn from a rubber ball and milk into something that acts like snot. Try to paint with it and the paint quite happily sticks to the brush like silly slime. Most amusing to the kids.

Some paints are just too far gone to even try to bring back even from new.

The newly purchased pots seem to all be sealed fine and the caps seem airtight so its not a problem with them drying out so it must be a storage problem or production problem at the factory.
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





Dallas, TX

acrylic medium goes on non metallic pots, metallic mediums goes on metallic pots, and make sure its labeled medium, not acrylic retarder, as that will dry up the pot like leather, but okay to add on a tile with paint ready to use right away.

you've put acrylic into metallic pot, doesn't work as intended.
   
Made in au
Fixture of Dakka





Melbourne

Aside from the paint separating, (which, lets be honest, is hardly an issue) i've had no major problem with any citadel paints and i've been using them for 14 years now at least.

I can't comment on the edge or dry paints as I haven't used them, but i'm into my 2nd bottle of ceramite white and I haven't experienced any of the problems people have listed here with either bottle. True it separates like a complete if you leave it for any length of time. But even at it's worst it's nothing a good solid shake can't fix.

As for the Lahmian medium. That could possibly be an issue with getting left in direct sunlight too often.

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Made in si
Camouflaged Zero






Saying other paints have issues doesn't make citadel paints any better. It's widely known that GW paints dry out very quickly, even the new ones.
It's the pots. My friend also buys citadel paints and have had the same problem with useless new paints, having rubber like consistency.

GW paints are very expensive per ml, you shouldn't have to fixed them...it's unacceptable.

Dropper bottles are much better at storing paint. I think GW should change to dropper bottles, like almost every other company out there.





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/01 07:23:23


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Trowbridge

Funny thing I have Citadel paints from an ancient range in tall octagonal bottles with white flip tops that seem to be as good today as they were when I purchased them in the 90's.

The modern containers are certainly a problem after a very short while in use. The inside of the lids keep getting junked up with dried paint which is frustrating as I keep having to pick the dried pain out so they shut tightly.

I have had a few other problems with other brands but nothing like I am getting or have been with Citadel over the last two years.

Sure I except that all paints can and will separate over time, but a couple of 8mm GLASS beads and a good shake soon sorts that out.

We expect problems with old opened pots....but not brand new unopened pots still sitting on the shops paint racks.

I have stuck with Citadel as my main paints since they first appeared in the 80's,most of that time the paint itself has been problem free (except for the containers-paints been fine) until recently when there seems to be a massive quality issue with certain colours. At £2.55 per pot owning the near complete range and having to re hydrate and replace pots can become an expensive business over a 12 month period.Replacing new and unopened pots however is just not acceptable.

At the moment I have been messing around with several Vallejo lines,scale75,P3, Darkstar(metallic), and have just ordered some Foundry to try out.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




to date I've had a few problems with paints, not entirely with GW ones e.g.

- VMC Red wash separating on models after being applied
- VMC Dark Green being basically rubbish
- VMC Dark Blue being nearly as rubbish as the greens
- VMC metalic golds being 'interesting'
- GW Dry White being useless the day it was bought
- GW Wet white being useless shortly after being bought

GW is still not preferred though for two reasons, both totally self inflicted

1. I hate the bottles, they stop sealing, the paints dry out, th lids don't stay open etc, in droppers I'd be happy

2. GW have a paint range thats not stable, colours come and go, this is not condusive to using them over a period of time


TBH #2 is the main reason I don't bother, if I find a colour I like (Uthulan Grey is very nice) I find a way to get as close as practical with VGC/VMC as I'll still be able to buy then in five years
   
Made in bg
Storm Trooper with Maglight






My necron compound dry was basically one piece of rubber when I opened it Ever since I tend to shake the pot really hard to hear if there is movement inside before buy
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

Well, the actual paint is decent or I would in fact call it great and I haven't had a problem with them outside of DRY paints, which are just terrible. And I've bought literally hundreds of citadel paints.

Only problem is the pot, more specifically the lid which is just utterly terrible. It's impossible to keep paint from accruing on the rim and eventually having dry paint in the pot. The current lid is one of the better ones over the years, but it's still terrible. I really wish they would sell the paints in dropper bottles.

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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Cloud City, Bespin

I’ve had trouble with 2 colours,
1st is white scar but a thorough mix cured then placed a glass bb into the pot and give it a shake every so often.

2nd is etherium blue, this looks like a blue doughnut in the pot

I have 10 year old black flip tops (look like the twist tops) that still work better than the new paints

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/01 12:43:40


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?
 DV8 wrote:
Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought should also be double-fisted.
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

leopard wrote:
GW is still not preferred though for two reasons, both totally self inflicted

1. I hate the bottles, they stop sealing, the paints dry out, th lids don't stay open etc, in droppers I'd be happy

2. GW have a paint range thats not stable, colours come and go, this is not condusive to using them over a period of time


TBH #2 is the main reason I don't bother, if I find a colour I like (Uthulan Grey is very nice) I find a way to get as close as practical with VGC/VMC as I'll still be able to buy then in five years

GW's paint range has been relatively stable since it's introduction in 2012. There's only been a few paints retired from the line (and that was just Imperial Primer and a few texture paints) and a brief period where a few paints went direct only. On the other hand, they've expanded the range with new base, layer, shade, texture and technical paints.

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Ultramarine Scout with Sniper Rifle





Ohio, USA

As people have stated, this seems like it's mostly just a problem with their whites and metallics. I have had problems with the paints you've mentioned in the past and have eventually gotten a good one. Just give it a good shake before purchasing and ensure it sounds aqueous.

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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Trowbridge

Yes, it does seem to be mostly the whites and some metallic that are affected across several lines.



   
Made in gb
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Cloud City, Bespin

I would just like to point out that the lids do stay open, you have to press the sticky up thing under the lid and it stays open, I do it on the washes mostly

And as for the drying out paint, you need to make sure there isn’t any dry paint around the sealing ring and also that the back end of the lid is pressed down

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?
 DV8 wrote:
Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought should also be double-fisted.
 
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

 Rybrook wrote:
I would just like to point out that the lids do stay open, you have to press the sticky up thing under the lid and it stays open, I do it on the washes mostly

And as for the drying out paint, you need to make sure there isn’t any dry paint around the sealing ring and also that the back end of the lid is pressed down


Idk if it's just me, but when I shake the paint and fully open the lid, the paint drips down the underside of the 'gutter' (don't really know what it's called) and onto the rim of the pot. If I don't wipe it immediately (I usually don't remember) the paint ends up on the inside of the lid eventually creating a small gap for air (and moisture) to escape.

I don't really know what else to call it than bad design. But like I said, the paint is good, but the pot and lid are pretty terrible for the reason described above.

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Camouflaged Zero






It's not only the used paints that dry out, even some brand new ones are dried. The pot is just bad.
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User



Australia

 Modock wrote:
It's the pots.


More specifically, it's the current pots (or at least those since HMG lost the contract). If you find Citadel paints from before 1998, chances are, they will still be liquid in their original pots and will only need a good mixing to use again.

I personally put all mine into dropper bottles, which does make an already expensive paint even more expensive... but it's better that having it all dry up on you, especially for those colours which do not see a lot of use.


I may have to try out the Instar paints.





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/02 12:54:06


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




There are definitely problems with citadel paints. Not the least of which is the cost. I can build an army for a few hundred bucks but the paints are fething overpriced, bringing that army to a thousand dollars. You can get just a wide of a range of colors with Vallejo or Army Painter because it all boils down to your creativity and skill, not what products you are using.
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

Fusiongene wrote:
There are definitely problems with citadel paints. Not the least of which is the cost. I can build an army for a few hundred bucks but the paints are fething overpriced, bringing that army to a thousand dollars. You can get just a wide of a range of colors with Vallejo or Army Painter because it all boils down to your creativity and skill, not what products you are using.


Wow, exaggerate much? Unless you're layering every color with 5 different grades of highlight you should be able to paint any army to a very good standard with 30-50 paints. Even at $5 a pot that's $250 at MOST. And it's not like you throw away the paints after you painted your army. I'm not saying they're cheap paints but a thousand dollars? Come on.

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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Ceramite White is brilliant for drybrushing, terrible for anything else in my experience.

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Made in gb
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine





 totalfailure wrote:
Ceramite White has been awful since its release, so that is not news. Pretty much all metallics have a tendency to separate. Imperial Primer was so bad, it has been dropped from the line altogether.

But other paint lines are not free of issues, either. I have an extensive Vallejo collection as well. Use them long enough, for example, and you will discover their color consistency is not always as precise as I would like. IE, a German Grey I bought two years ago does noticeably not match a German Grey I bought last month, etc.


Vallejo did a hefty rename a number of paints a couple of years ago, particularly in the model air range. From memory, the old VMA german grey became anthracite grey and the new one is a new number and colour. So the first thing to watch out for when replacing older paint (or using a vallejo based paint guide) is you go for the same number, not the name. They also tweaked the colours for some of the paints, particularly ones that had RLM numbers to better match what they were supposed to match. They frustratingly didn't publicise this or which paints where changed at all, so I did get caught out myself when they moved the reds around. They also do have a reputation for doing this quietly for individual paints in the model ranges, as their market is officially WWII modellers who usually want close(r) matches to the real world origins.

On the original question, I haven't noticed any problems with citadel paints myself, I've bought maybe 15 or so citadel pots in the last 6 months, mostly layers, for specific colours (I hate custom mixing for army-wide colours, and I swap projects a lot). They all usually need some extra medium and a bit of flow aid, and a hefty shaking before use with an added shaker ball, but that's 'normal' for citadel. Admittedly, I also cherry pick from other ranges such as army painter, scalecolor, darkstar and vallejo for a majority of my collection. I'm not a fan of citadel pots, and the metallics are rubbish.
   
 
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