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5 WG on Bikes, each with a Storm Bolter & Chainsword = 190 points (14PL)

Each can (somehow) fire their Storm Bolter and the bike's Twin-Boltgun at the same time.

Un-buffed, that's 20 Rapid Fire Bolter shots a round (40 at half range) & 16 Chainsword attacks in the Fight Phase on a Move 14, T5 3+ Save platform.


Too expensive? Thoughts? Comments?

It's a good unit for clearing chaff. But it doesn't do much else. The problem is that chaff units cost something like 40pts+ meaning you have to destroy quite a few to make up for the cost. Take Storm Shields instead of chainswords and they become super annoying to kill and the amount of bolter shots means they can't be fully ignored either.

That said I think there are better places to spend the points in the SW codex.

I was just using the squad + storm bolters as a basis.

Expanding on that squad with Storm Shields is a nice, cheap option; though it does hurts their CC potential.

What would you suggest for "chaff" clearing in the SW Codex?

5 of these are expensive, but put out a ton of firepower. Put a wolf lord and wolf guard battle leader both on bikes tooled for cc and you have a super annoying and tough shield to get your cc heros in. It is a very effective if not super expensive way to do it, but in our codex everything is super expensive so eh.

Combi-plasma --- use the strat to avoid the -1

for 5 combi-plasma bikes in rapid fire range 30 bolter and 10 plasma shots all ignoring penalties with the strategem.

Been building mine. will hopefully test soon.

 Weazel wrote:
It's a good unit for clearing chaff. But it doesn't do much else. The problem is that chaff units cost something like 40pts+ meaning you have to destroy quite a few to make up for the cost. Take Storm Shields instead of chainswords and they become super annoying to kill and the amount of bolter shots means they can't be fully ignored either.

That said I think there are better places to spend the points in the SW codex.

I hate the kills-its-points model when trying to determine if a unit is any good because it tries to take a whole bunch of complex interactions and reduces them to mere statistics, ignoring that units gain a lot of power on synergies and positioning which are very difficult to model. The X won't kill its points model ruled that Scouts were trash when they were pretty much an auto-take in any competitive marine list due to the utility gained by their deployment special rule, which isn't represented at all by mathhammer.

The above mentioned unit Wold Guard unit probably won't kill it's points, true. But, if killing chaff with it allows another unit that would otherwise not have been able to get to the juicy stuff behind the chaff, it doesn't matter because you enabled another part of your army to work at above normal efficiency.

Agree storm shields are probably a good idea, at least a couple so you live long enough. The pros are it's a fast moving chaff clearer that can do work from turn one at making holes for your melee units or kick chaff off of objectives. But the question is, is there anything you can bring that would do that chaff clearing job even more efficiently? Here's a look at 10 Deathwatch vets with SB's.

Compared to the Deathwatch option of 10 deepstriking vets with Stormbolters, WG on bikes spend 10 points less and have the following tradeoff's:

Better mobility than the DW outside of the initial deepstrike, worse mobility for choosing the initial target for chaff clearing.
Equal number of shots but no SIA for increased effectiveness vs. a wide variety of targets.
Equal number of wounds, but more vulnerable to 2D or better weapons.
Better toughness for increased survivability against small arms.
Potential to be wiped from the board T1 (though, that's a bit of a trade off with not being able to do anything at all until turn 2)

I think this shows that the 5 WG option is at least somewhat viable as it holds up decently to what I consider the gold standard of chaff clearing for SM with my biggest concern being T1 vulnerability on the WG.

Although you'd have to wait until turn 2 as per the recent FAQ, maybe a good way to keep them alive would be to use Cunning of the Wolf on them. Not sure it's worth doing that though.

I found that you usually get one turn of shooting from them. If you stay back over 12" you're gonna lose half you shots. If you get to rapid fire range you get one salvo off and after that you'll either get shot to pieces if you don't have storm shields and if you do you'll just get charged by a rhino or whatever and your shooting is shut down. If they had Fly they'd probably be an auto pick, but alas..

Either way it's a unit that will draw attention and I guess that is of some value. Just don't put too much hope into pumping out those shots turn after turn.

RogueApiary wrote:

I hate the kills-its-points model when trying to determine if a unit is any good because it tries to take a whole bunch of complex interactions and reduces them to mere statistics, ignoring that units gain a lot of power on synergies and positioning which are very difficult to model. The X won't kill its points model ruled that Scouts were trash when they were pretty much an auto-take in any competitive marine list due to the utility gained by their deployment special rule, which isn't represented at all by mathhammer.

Also you don't need neccessarily kill whole unit to make it worth. Especially smaller chaff units like IG just losing 3-4 model per squad can cause hole to the screen you can utilize. So it might be even worth splitting fire from those bikes even if you know you won't kill entire unit but can open up hole in multiple spots! (especially if IG uses layered screen to work around the issue 10 sized squads have for screening)

 acsmedic wrote:
Combi-plasma --- use the strat to avoid the -1

for 5 combi-plasma bikes in rapid fire range 30 bolter and 10 plasma shots all ignoring penalties with the strategem.

Been building mine. will hopefully test soon.

That's an extra 13 ppm over the Storm Bolter build though making the squad go from 190 points (without Storm Shields) to 270 points; seems a little high for me.

I'd like to hear how they worked out though.

Yeah, these guys are expensive enough as they are, the combi plasma is better used elsewhere. Make them for chaff clearing, keep a wolf lord with thunder hammer near them so if they do get charged you can consolidate into the target, and let them loose.

They work great until something tarpits them. I know two guys in my area and they have learned to fear armiger Warglaives. Not because the Armigers are any good at killing them, but purely because they can't outrun the things, can't hurt the things, and lose usually a single bike a turn to them.

Essentially they're insane as long as no one touches them

What about WG with Jump Packs with the same load out. Lower toughness but cheaper and can always fall back and shoot. Lower board presence so can be hid behind terrain easier.

 Hades wrote:
What about WG with Jump Packs with the same load out. Lower toughness but cheaper and can always fall back and shoot. Lower board presence so can be hid behind terrain easier.

You then get half the shots.

Part of what makes the bikes insane is each one has essentially a rapid fire 4 bolter profile. But on top of that the bikes have T5 and 2 wounds, which with stormshields takes a very long time to get through usually.

Yeah the jetpacks could fall back and shoot, but their punch is a lot lighter than similar amount of bikes.