Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I noticed how little points did retributor squads cost and decided to just spam heavy bolters across 3 different armies.
Would like some help on which HQs to use and how to spend remaining points.

My rationale was: Imperial Knights and stuff are t8. Not many stuff are t10. If i can would enemy models that are t6-t9 on a 5+ then why bother with s6-s9 weapons that have lower rof and cost so much more? The first several turns i need to march 6" and advance and shoot at 4+ due to heavy weapon penalty. Once i am near the center of the board I can tap anything 36".




++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [22 PL, 279pts] ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Warlord

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Ministorum) [42 PL, 590pts] ++

+ HQ +

Canoness [4 PL, 45pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Canoness [4 PL, 45pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. 3x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. 3x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. 3x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Elites +

Imagifier [2 PL, 40pts]

Imagifier [2 PL, 40pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 85pts]
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 85pts]
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Retributor Squad [6 PL, 85pts]
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [48 PL, 698pts] ++

+ HQ +

Librarian [7 PL, 96pts]: Force stave

Master [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]
. Heavy Weapon Scout: Heavy bolter
. 3x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastators [8 PL, 110pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 4x Space Marine (Heavy Bolter): 4x Heavy bolter
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Devastators [8 PL, 110pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 4x Space Marine (Heavy Bolter): 4x Heavy bolter
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Devastators [8 PL, 110pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 4x Space Marine (Heavy Bolter): 4x Heavy bolter
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

++spearhead Detachment (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [12 PL, 396pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
++ Total: [124 PL, 1963pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Now THIS is a space marine list.

I wouldn't bother with the PGC for a list like this. Can you fit a Mortis Dreadnought with two-Twin Heavy Bolters to make it an even 2K?

Weird list. Add cherubs to your dev squads for the use of hellfire shells, and reload with the cherub for 2D3 MW.

 p5freak wrote:
Weird list. Add cherubs to your dev squads for the use of hellfire shells, and reload with the cherub for 2D3 MW.

Cherubs come built into the profile of the devastator squad now, no need to pay for them.

 Togusa wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Weird list. Add cherubs to your dev squads for the use of hellfire shells, and reload with the cherub for 2D3 MW.

Cherubs come built into the profile of the devastator squad now, no need to pay for them.

No, they dont. A cherub is an additional 5 pts.

Updated list to include cherubs for 3 devestator sergeants.

Any more tips on good strategems or hq war gear?

For the Sister's side, see if you can find 80 points for a pair of Imagifiers. If maxed out HB fire is your core strategy, you need your Retributers firing twice each turn.

List Updated to include pair Imagifiers.

Itz nearly enuff dakka!

(but still not enuff. Never enuff)

Booger ork wrote:
Itz nearly enuff dakka!

(but still not enuff. Never enuff)

Removed space wolves and replaced with AM mortors. Also included forge world quad heavy bolter rapier battery.

Two things im noticing

++spearhead Detachment (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [12 PL, 396pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

is missing a HQ,

Also at 2000 points, think your only allowed 3 detachments

a) in 2k good luck finding opponent allowing 4 dets
b) why not spam heavy bolters for vehicle duty? Well -1 save only and D1. All your IG, sister and marine heavy bolters adds up to about 9 wounds. You are looking at killing 2 knights in 6 turn game. With no casualties on your side. Good luck stopping knights with that.

moonsmite wrote:
Two things im noticing

++spearhead Detachment (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [12 PL, 396pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Rapier Carrier [4 PL, 132pts]: 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

is missing a HQ,

Also at 2000 points, think your only allowed 3 detachments

I didnt know how to add them on the space marine detachment Through battle scribe. Do i just manually write it in?

Tneva82, can you please explain you math hammer?

Heavy bolter S5 vs Imperial Knight T8 = wound on 5+ = 33% to wound. The HB -1ap makes the IK's 3+sv become 4+ so he has 50% to save.

Lascanon s9 vs IK t8 = wound on 3+ = 66% wound
IK uses Rotate Ion Shield and still gets a 4++ invul thereby getting 50% to save. Same outcome at 2.5x the price of the gun perhaps avg 3 wounds [1d6] .

Yeah the mathhammer is nowhere near as bad as others are making out. I think you have 54 heavy bolters so:
162 shots
BS 3+ = 103 hits
Tough 8, 36 wounds
4+ Save, 18 damage

So that'll be 4.5 knights not 2.

That being said if you were to swap them for 27 las cannons you'd be:

27 shots
BS 3+ = 16 hits
Tough 8, 10.67 wounds
5++ save (when they rotate ion sheilds shoot a different one) 24.88 damage

So about 6 knights in 6 turns.

So some difference but your heavy bolters will massively outperform the las cannons on single wound models.

It could be worth going 3 HB 1 Las on devastaors and reteibutors for some flexibility but it's not as crazy as it first seems!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, also you have put in a nested FW detachment by clicking on the astartes detachment rather than the plus button. You're only allowed 3 heavy choices in a battallion so you would have to use a spearhead and loose some CP but you'd still habe 14 so it's no problem.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:

I didnt know how to add them on the space marine detachment Through battle scribe. Do i just manually write it in?

Tneva82, can you please explain you math hammer?

Heavy bolter S5 vs Imperial Knight T8 = wound on 5+ = 33% to wound. The HB -1ap makes the IK's 3+sv become 4+ so he has 50% to save.

Lascanon s9 vs IK t8 = wound on 3+ = 66% wound
IK uses Rotate Ion Shield and still gets a 4++ invul thereby getting 50% to save. Same outcome at 2.5x the price of the gun perhaps avg 3 wounds [1d6] .

Knights can get a 2+ sv, and they can get a 3+ inv with rotate ion shields.

And btw, max 3 detachments for 2k points is only a suggestion for organised plays. Its not an official rule.

Knights get that if they take relics such as Armor of sainted ion and Ion Bulwark combined with Rotate Ion Shield strategem.

When it comes down to it. If i shoot my lascannon at an IK who owns 3++, then he has a 66% to save which is the same thing as if I shoot my heavy bolter at an IK with a 3++ then it is still 66% to save.

If i shoot a lascannon at a Knight with a 2+sv then he will use his invul save. Some times its 4++ or 3++. If he upgraded it to be 3++ then it would be the same if i shot a heavy bolter -1ap making the 2+sv into a 3+sv. Again a 66% to save with a 3+ if he already had a 3++.

About the 3 detachment, i will fix the list later

This list makes me feel warm inside. As someone who spammed Imperial Fist bolters/HBs in 7th, I want to give you a hug.

Please tell me everything is painted yellow?!

 CadianGateTroll wrote:


Heavy bolter S5 vs Imperial Knight T8 = wound on 5+ = 33% to wound. The HB -1ap makes the IK's 3+sv become 4+ so he has 50% to save.

Lascanon s9 vs IK t8 = wound on 3+ = 66% wound
IK uses Rotate Ion Shield and still gets a 4++ invul thereby getting 50% to save. Same outcome at 2.5x the price of the gun perhaps avg 3 wounds [1d6] .

And why would you fire everything at the 4++ knight when there's 5++ knights around. RIS is 1 model only. Fire at something, it binks it, fire rest to others. Hey presto. If you play badly blame is on you. When I play with knights I don't even remember when RIS was actually useful and not just CP burner. It's basically for 1 knight only allies but if you face 3+ knights that's not a worry.

But even then 1 hit from lascannon vs 4++ is 1.16 wounds. 3 hits from heavy bolter is 0.5 wounds...

Vs 5++ it's 1.55 vs 0.5. Yeah same effect indeed.

And of course who says lascannon is ultimate knight killer anyway...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:
And btw, max 3 detachments for 2k points is only a suggestion for organised plays. Its not an official rule.

It's official suggestion in rulebook that's as good as set in stone. I have found far more players who disallow premeasuring than allow 4+ dets in 2k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Knights get that if they take relics such as Armor of sainted ion and Ion Bulwark combined with Rotate Ion Shield strategem.

When it comes down to it. If i shoot my lascannon at an IK who owns 3++, then he has a 66% to save which is the same thing as if I shoot my heavy bolter at an IK with a 3++ then it is still 66% to save.

If i shoot a lascannon at a Knight with a 2+sv then he will use his invul save. Some times its 4++ or 3++. If he upgraded it to be 3++ then it would be the same if i shot a heavy bolter -1ap making the 2+sv into a 3+sv. Again a 66% to save with a 3+ if he already had a 3++.

About the 3 detachment, i will fix the list later

Thing is you CHOOSE to shoot at the 3++. You could choose to shoot at the 5++. You don't even need to kill every knight to win the game so why are you trying to shoot the knight that's hardest to kill rather than easier targets and rob knight player of any teeth...

I just remembered that tau troops get pulse rifles that fire 30" s5 no ap for 8ppm.

What is the point of paying 10pts to get a gun to shoot 6 inches farther, and -1ap on top of a 9-13pt model?

If tau can wound t9 on 5+ by using pulse rifles which is what i was trying to do with heavy bolters then why bother?

So why are tau not dominating?

AP- 1 is in such a case usefull. Additionally light vehicles can get their only saving grace reduced. ( a 4+ save is quite alot worse then a 3+ save on anything transport like)
3 Shots compared to 1 shot at 15" is also a lot better.

Tau also suffer from some other problems, mainly overexpensive suits.