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Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Spoiler:


This isn't the first time I've seen an alternative to a GW sculpt that I immediately fell in love with. The problem is that it's resin, and I have no interest in anything that isn't hard plastic. Are any of you aware of any companies that produce beautiful alternatives to GW sculpts in hard plastic?
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

How similar do the sculpts need to be to GW in style. For example, do the Dreamforge Valkir looks close enough to Space Marines for you? Are the old Warzone plastics available through Prince August close enough quality to IG?

There are not a lot of companies producing plastics that are both in the same style as GW and similar quality. Shieldwolf's got some not-Sisters coming out and Avatars have some Dwarf Berserkers (Trollslayers) that are really amazing, but other than that I can't think of many.

   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How similar do the sculpts need to be to GW in style...


As close as the one in the pic I suppose. I guess ones that are aimed at mimicking Warhammer 40k specifically. I'm not a fan of using models from other games that one can just, "get away with."
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

just the Avatars of War Trollslayers then.

   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






 Ginjitzu wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How similar do the sculpts need to be to GW in style...


As close as the one in the pic I suppose. I guess ones that are aimed at mimicking Warhammer 40k specifically. I'm not a fan of using models from other games that one can just, "get away with."


You're pretty much out of luck then. Making characters out of hard plastic isn't financially viable for most companies.

   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Yup, plastic only becomes viable with mass production, and the market of "people who like GW stuff but want alternative versions from other companies" isn't anywhere close to big enough to justify mass production - the only reason we're getting plastic not-Sisters is the company doing that project had already put loads of work(and, likely, money) into it before GW announced they'd be doing plastic actual-Sisters next year.

I have to ask, as I keep seeing it come up; what's peoples' issue with resin? Like, I can understand not wanting to use metal models; unless you like the weighty feel there's not many upsides to them, and a lot of downsides(hard to convert, heavy to transport in numbers, paint chips off often even after varnishing etc), but resin has almost all the same qualities as HIPS and the prep work is only egregious in cases where either the model is a poor cast(which is a QC issue rather than a material issue) or if you don't do any prep work to HIPS models at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 08:08:37


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

Are there any particular armies you are looking for? Fantasy figures are out there, but I'm guessing you want Sci-Fi themed. Basic guard troopers, and to a lesser extent orks, can be found.

Depending on what Imperial Guard regiment you are looking for there are tons of manufacturers making anything from 1890's British infantry, WWI figures, modern combat, or futuristic.

I seem to remember a while back there was a Russian manufacturer that had "totally not Space Marines" basic infantry.
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Yodhrin wrote:
Spoiler:
Yup, plastic only becomes viable with mass production, and the market of "people who like GW stuff but want alternative versions from other companies" isn't anywhere close to big enough to justify mass production - the only reason we're getting plastic not-Sisters is the company doing that project had already put loads of work(and, likely, money) into it before GW announced they'd be doing plastic actual-Sisters next year.

I have to ask, as I keep seeing it come up; what's peoples' issue with resin? Like, I can understand not wanting to use metal models; unless you like the weighty feel there's not many upsides to them, and a lot of downsides(hard to convert, heavy to transport in numbers, paint chips off often even after varnishing etc), but resin has almost all the same qualities as HIPS and the prep work is only egregious in cases where either the model is a poor cast(which is a QC issue rather than a material issue) or if you don't do any prep work to HIPS models at all.


Actually Yodhrin, the absolute truth is that I've never actually used resin, but I've just read so many negative things about it that I've developed a strong prejudice against it. I suppose it's possible that many of these disadvantages have been blown out of proportion and that this prejudice is rather unfair. Maybe I should try out some resin and see for myself some time.

cuda1179 wrote:
Spoiler:
Are there any particular armies you are looking for? Fantasy figures are out there, but I'm guessing you want Sci-Fi themed. Basic guard troopers, and to a lesser extent orks, can be found.

Depending on what Imperial Guard regiment you are looking for there are tons of manufacturers making anything from 1890's British infantry, WWI figures, modern combat, or futuristic.

I seem to remember a while back there was a Russian manufacturer that had "totally not Space Marines" basic infantry.


Well I only collect Dark Angels at the moment, so I guess that's why the model in the picture caught my eye, but looking at some of the rest of their range, it seems pretty clear that Games-Workshop are far from the only company producing top tier sculpts, and some of the prices seem a lot more reasonable than the craziness that Forge World charge. As I mentioned in reply to Yodhrin, I suppose my aversion to resin is somewhat unjustified, so I might just give it a go and see for myself.

What you've all been saying about production scale and viability makes a lot of sense. Damn! I really wish this wasn't such a niche hobby! Can you imagine the possibilities for this hobby if it were at the scale of video gaming?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 09:57:35


 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Resin is very dependent on the manufacturer i found out.

Stuff from Anvil was for me atleast better then comparable GW miniatures (FW) . Recasters off of ebay genereally are highly mixed, either great or terrible.

They do have however not alot for SM, mostly stuff for alternatives of IG or even Cultists. Orkz have Kromlech, a very peculiar style of maybee not everyones style but it's there.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Many of the complaints against resin are about Finecrap and/or full of hyperbole (same goes for metals. It's what the internet is wont to do).

WargameExclusive resin is ace. I've worked with a couple of models of theirs and there was virtually no cleanup required and it's really good resin.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






 Ginjitzu wrote:

Can you imagine the possibilities for this hobby if it were at the scale of video gaming?

No idea what you're talking about. The wargaming hobby is booming.
The Kirby GW of the last 10 years allowed other companies to get a good solid fan/buyer base for alternative systems and producers of miniatures for unsupported armies to get their market share.
Kickstarter had and still has lots of great deals and made it possible to get an idea out and into production.

Just now Fireforge (usually historical miniatures) is running a campaign to get their fantasy line up and running which fits perfect into AoS, WHFB or KoW.

With the internet, Paypal and worldwide shipping made easy, you can order your Dark Angels Chapter Master lookalike from Russia without any trouble and as easy as ever.

Regarding the material: resin is a catch-all phrase. There are lots of different types of resin. If it's brittle, I hate it, because you can't really work well with it. Otherwise it's a cheap material and cheap for setup. Conversions are easy, very thin parts and details are possible.

I still prefer metal for skirmish/monopose minis though, as it's just a lot tougher and much less prone to bubbles/miscasts.

GW resin of today is okay-ish, a bit bendy but very workable. Keep away from older 'Finecast' models, they are literally surrounded by gates.
Forgeworld resin is nearly the same as GW resin, maybe a bit better.
It always depends on the manufacturer.

   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Ginjitzu wrote:


Actually Yodhrin, the absolute truth is that I've never actually used resin, but I've just read so many negative things about it that I've developed a strong prejudice against it. I suppose it's possible that many of these disadvantages have been blown out of proportion and that this prejudice is rather unfair. Maybe I should try out some resin and see for myself some time.


Only issue I have ever had is need to buy super glue rather than just plastic glue. But then again I use super glue for other things(like gluing pennies to bottom of some models that are too unstable anyway. Stormboyz for example) so no big deal.



2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 Hanskrampf wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:

Can you imagine the possibilities for this hobby if it were at the scale of video gaming?

No idea what you're talking about. The wargaming hobby is booming.
The Kirby GW of the last 10 years allowed other companies to get a good solid fan/buyer base for alternative systems and producers of miniatures for unsupported armies to get their market share.
Kickstarter had and still has lots of great deals and made it possible to get an idea out and into production.

Just now Fireforge (usually historical miniatures) is running a campaign to get their fantasy line up and running which fits perfect into AoS, WHFB or KoW.

With the internet, Paypal and worldwide shipping made easy, you can order your Dark Angels Chapter Master lookalike from Russia without any trouble and as easy as ever.



For sure! The tabletop wargaming hobby looks to be in better shape now than it has in as long as I remember. What I meant by comparing it to a huge industry like video gaming, is that if it was as popular, then the economy of scale wouldn't be as much of an issue, and there might be a lot more options in terms of the more costly production methods, rather than plastic for just the most popular stuff and alternatives for the less popular stuff. But as others have pointed out, my prejudice against resin is very likely unjustified, so I'll just have to give it a try!

Though I have to take you up on the "worldwide shipping made easy" remark. I live in Vietnam, and getting one's hands on anything produced anywhere but here is quite frankly a fething nightmare!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/15 10:41:56


 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

If you've not given it a go, you really should, most of the issues people have are either misconceptions, problems with a single manufacturer's QC generalised out to a whole material, or just outright myths.

For example; "resin dust is toxic!!!!1". Yes, so is HIPS dust. So is any synthetic chemical product turned into a powder you could breathe in. Yet ask the folk who bring it up in relation to resin if they use a respirator or FFP3 dust mask when sanding & filing HIPS models and most of them don't.

Another common one is "resin requires more cleanup time than HIPS", but that's entirely situational. I've had resin casts that required almost zero prep work at all, and HIPS kits that took me hours to remove all the mold lines from. In general, you won't spend much more time on a good resin cast than a good HIPS sprue, the main extra bit of effort is you need to give them a quick wash to clear any residue of mold release, but that's the work of moments.

The two genuine disadvantages with resin are cost and thin spindly parts. Cost because while the setup for resin casting is massively cheaper than HIPS, it's a very labour-intensive process and that combined with it being used often for low-volume niche products means it can be pricey, though that's been mitigated a lot in recent years by GW cranking the prices on their characters as they moved them to HIPS. Thin bits because resin tends to be more brittle than HIPS. It depends a lot on the brand, mixture, and casting process of course, but in general while you'd be happy to leave a plastic spear shaft on a "28mm" model, for resin you probably want to replace it with brass rod even if it's not bendy, just to be on the safe side.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Yodhrin wrote:
If you've not given it a go, you really should, most of the issues people have are either misconceptions, problems with a single manufacturer's QC generalised out to a whole material, or just outright myths.

For example; "resin dust is toxic!!!!1". Yes, so is HIPS dust. So is any synthetic chemical product turned into a powder you could breathe in. Yet ask the folk who bring it up in relation to resin if they use a respirator or FFP3 dust mask when sanding & filing HIPS models and most of them don't.

Another common one is "resin requires more cleanup time than HIPS", but that's entirely situational. I've had resin casts that required almost zero prep work at all, and HIPS kits that took me hours to remove all the mold lines from. In general, you won't spend much more time on a good resin cast than a good HIPS sprue, the main extra bit of effort is you need to give them a quick wash to clear any residue of mold release, but that's the work of moments.

The two genuine disadvantages with resin are cost and thin spindly parts. Cost because while the setup for resin casting is massively cheaper than HIPS, it's a very labour-intensive process and that combined with it being used often for low-volume niche products means it can be pricey, though that's been mitigated a lot in recent years by GW cranking the prices on their characters as they moved them to HIPS. Thin bits because resin tends to be more brittle than HIPS. It depends a lot on the brand, mixture, and casting process of course, but in general while you'd be happy to leave a plastic spear shaft on a "28mm" model, for resin you probably want to replace it with brass rod even if it's not bendy, just to be on the safe side.


I would use either a mask or respirator if you work with resin, the material is lighter and therfore if you need to correct faulty parts or after you got them out of a kit it will stay in the air much longer, that beeing said comparatively to what you breath in, in a city i'd imagine you'd be fine when you do that 1-2 per week.

I had only once problems with Resin, and that was for my FW decimator, some of the shoulder pads were not formed good enough so i had to play surgeon and fix it. Then again i also had a box Of CSM in which all horned heads had faults inbetween the horns. Generally though it really depends on the manufacturer and sadly GW with failcast aswell as FW have a questionable quality standard sometimes, especially if we compare prices to other producers. On the otherhand i have ordered 3rd party resin models which required me literally only to put the model toghether after i washed it.

The only real drawback resin has, is that you will need a superglue instead of the regular plastic glue, which depending on your skill with it means glued together fingers and a lower margin of error. You can circumvent that however fairly easy via preparing the model beforehand and putting the parts toghether that you want to fit toghether later before you glue, this allows you to a see if you worked to carelessly before you have rests from the casting left poking out, aswell as getting a general idea how you want the model to look afterwards.

Edit: Shipping ofcourse is mostly up to the company you order from and in cases like vietnam or china or even switzerland like me , better hope that the tarifs burocracy for once works efficently......
Technically you could also ask someone to buy it for you in the UK and then send it via post to you,that is a fairly common solution but sometimes a bit sluggish and depending on your postal service your stuff might get damaged.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 12:25:39


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Ginjitzu, what kinds of miniatures are you looking for besides Dark Angels? I'd be happy to recommend plastics, but most plastic ranges are not in the same heroic scale as GW, nor do they share the same aesthetic.

There is also a new material in use: board game plastic. So far, it has mostly been used for fantasy stuff, but CMON and Mantic have sci fi boardgames with some minis you can check out.

As for resins, some are really great to work with, but some are a real pain. Scibor makes some Dark Angel-like minis, and so do HiTech Minis, but they are both middle of the road in terms of resin quality in my experience, requiring clean up, gap filling and even some carving at joints to get them to fit better.

   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I'll second Wargame Exclusive being great models - you'd swear they were made of plastic for the look and feel.

If you are willing to try out resin, there is also Hi-TechMinis that I'd recommend; I have a couple of their models and they are very good quality - they have a look and feel like a chess piece.

This is one of their models:

Spoiler:




Mantic's Warpath and Warlord's Gates of Antares might have some models worth taking a look at, though the aesthetic may stray what you're looking for. Most of their troops are in plastic, though. I've purchased their Forge Fathers to try and build a 40K squat army, and Warlord's Concord faction would make excellent G'uvesa (Tau human allied guardsmen basically).

Wargames Factory had a line of not-Kreig troopers, though the company has gone defunct. You can find boxes of the troops (shock troopers); they're all plastic.

Dreamforge Games makes a line of troops (Eisenkern) usable as scions or "light" marines. They even have a Knight+ sized model that puts GW's to shame - it's cheaper, posable and designed to be able to swap weapons. For now, the line is all plastic but the creator is supposed to be swapping over to resin as his on-hand stock is used up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/16 03:56:33


It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Spoiler:
 Yodhrin wrote:
If you've not given it a go, you really should, most of the issues people have are either misconceptions, problems with a single manufacturer's QC generalised out to a whole material, or just outright myths.

For example; "resin dust is toxic!!!!1". Yes, so is HIPS dust. So is any synthetic chemical product turned into a powder you could breathe in. Yet ask the folk who bring it up in relation to resin if they use a respirator or FFP3 dust mask when sanding & filing HIPS models and most of them don't.

Another common one is "resin requires more cleanup time than HIPS", but that's entirely situational. I've had resin casts that required almost zero prep work at all, and HIPS kits that took me hours to remove all the mold lines from. In general, you won't spend much more time on a good resin cast than a good HIPS sprue, the main extra bit of effort is you need to give them a quick wash to clear any residue of mold release, but that's the work of moments.

The two genuine disadvantages with resin are cost and thin spindly parts. Cost because while the setup for resin casting is massively cheaper than HIPS, it's a very labour-intensive process and that combined with it being used often for low-volume niche products means it can be pricey, though that's been mitigated a lot in recent years by GW cranking the prices on their characters as they moved them to HIPS. Thin bits because resin tends to be more brittle than HIPS. It depends a lot on the brand, mixture, and casting process of course, but in general while you'd be happy to leave a plastic spear shaft on a "28mm" model, for resin you probably want to replace it with brass rod even if it's not bendy, just to be on the safe side.


I would use either a mask or respirator if you work with resin, the material is lighter and therfore if you need to correct faulty parts or after you got them out of a kit it will stay in the air much longer, that beeing said comparatively to what you breath in, in a city i'd imagine you'd be fine when you do that 1-2 per week.

I had only once problems with Resin, and that was for my FW decimator, some of the shoulder pads were not formed good enough so i had to play surgeon and fix it. Then again i also had a box Of CSM in which all horned heads had faults inbetween the horns. Generally though it really depends on the manufacturer and sadly GW with failcast aswell as FW have a questionable quality standard sometimes, especially if we compare prices to other producers. On the otherhand i have ordered 3rd party resin models which required me literally only to put the model toghether after i washed it.

The only real drawback resin has, is that you will need a superglue instead of the regular plastic glue, which depending on your skill with it means glued together fingers and a lower margin of error. You can circumvent that however fairly easy via preparing the model beforehand and putting the parts toghether that you want to fit toghether later before you glue, this allows you to a see if you worked to carelessly before you have rests from the casting left poking out, aswell as getting a general idea how you want the model to look afterwards.

Edit: Shipping ofcourse is mostly up to the company you order from and in cases like vietnam or china or even switzerland like me , better hope that the tarifs burocracy for once works efficently......
Technically you could also ask someone to buy it for you in the UK and then send it via post to you,that is a fairly common solution but sometimes a bit sluggish and depending on your postal service your stuff might get damaged.


Thanks guys. It seems that the consensus with resin is that, you may have issues that require some remedial effort, depending on the quality of the manufacturer and luck. So no real difference from plastic then.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Spoiler:
Ginjitzu, what kinds of miniatures are you looking for besides Dark Angels? I'd be happy to recommend plastics, but most plastic ranges are not in the same heroic scale as GW, nor do they share the same aesthetic.

There is also a new material in use: board game plastic. So far, it has mostly been used for fantasy stuff, but CMON and Mantic have sci fi boardgames with some minis you can check out.

As for resins, some are really great to work with, but some are a real pain. Scibor makes some Dark Angel-like minis, and so do HiTech Minis, but they are both middle of the road in terms of resin quality in my experience, requiring clean up, gap filling and even some carving at joints to get them to fit better.


I am interested in seeing alternatives to anything from the Sigmar & 40k ranges, though realistically, I'd probably only buy something that is Dark Angels related, as that is what I'm collecting at the moment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/16 04:07:06


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Well, there aren't a whole lot of options for Dark Angel look alikes. Try Hi-Tech, Scibor, maybe souldark.ru.

If you are interested in getting into other sci fi or fantasy aesthetics while working with plastic, I will recomment checking out companies like Dreamforge, Mantic, Warlord, Malifaux, Shieldwolf, as well as searching Kickstarter for successful board games, many of which have boxes loaded with decent to excellent miniatures available through amazon or other retailers.

   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

Resin, which you say you don't like, but set up like a kit so you can differentiate models like in 40k.

https://www.ragingheroes.com/


 
   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

I dont have a problem with resin as long as the parts are big. Then there is a weight distribution problem of resin bodies with metal weapons, but i prefer this to having resin weapons.

   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

I'll just chime in and say that resin is a perfectly workable material, but it does have such an enormous variation that you need to learn about a given manufacturer's process/formulation before you can say it's "as good" as HIPS. HIPS is more or less HIPS; even the shonkiest kits made of the stuff works the same as the most tightly-machined sprue. Resin can indeed be just as easy to work with to a brittle and bubbly mess depending on who made it. Thus I'd advise making sure to try out each resin manufacturer on a small order before you order lots of any of their stuff; the variation is just huge otherwise. I've personally had great luck with anything from Victoria Miniatures, but they mainly do Guard-analogs and come at a premium even compared to most GW lines.

On the topic of superglue, I'm not sure if I'm just getting weak glue or if my skin is somehow bizarre, but I can't say I've ever had stuck fingers. I use super glue in a gel form though (mainly so it doesn't run everywhere) but even when I've gotten briefly stuck, it's just be a gentle tug apart. I know they've toned down the adhesive properties over the years to prevent injury, but I've always wondered why even with the liquid stuff my fingers never seemed to stick. On the glue note though it's real important to note that super glue is just a tacky thing that keeps parts together versus plastic glue on HIPS which is actually welding through melting the plastic together; the joins with super glue are thus far weaker, especially depending on the direction of any force hitting them. Not a huge downside and there's ways to make a join stronger (pinning, etc), but something to keep in mind with gaming models which see more unusual forces than a display piece.

In the actual terms of the OP's question I'd toss out another referral for DreamForge; not exactly the 40k aesthetic, but in the Leviathans the Mortis has a skull head and the Crusader has Teutonic styling that aligns with the Grey Knights pretty well so they stand in for Dreadnoughts and Knights (15mm and 28mm versions respectively) in a believable fashion. They're a bit larger than their 40k analogs, but the kits are great fun to build. The infantry are nice and sublimely engineered for versatility, especially with the accessories, but they don't fit in quite as cleanly with other 40k factions. As someone mentioned, possibly good Scion fodder though since they're heavily armed/armored compared to GW's Guardsmen. The APC is also great fun to build, but since it can actually fit the entire squad and crew (as you get models for them), it is much bigger than most 40k vehicles.

I also have a ton of Mantic's Enforcers, and most of their WarPath HIPS stuff is of decent-to-good quality. Problem with Mantic versus GW is that Mantic shied away from the whole "grimdark" to go with a more traditional sci-fi look so they don't quite work as alternatives. The Mule though...the Mule is a great little kit for what it is. Pretty easy to slap a 40k gun on the top too.

In terms of "true" alt-GW in HIPS I don't think you're going to find much. GW has spent a lot of effort making sure they had a very distinct aesthetic for a reason. With the rather hefty costs still associated with HIPS mold cutting, I don't see too many companies wanting to shoulder the expense for something that's just aping another company and may skirt some trademark or other; it's doubtful GW would prevail in any legal case, but if there's one thing more expensive than HIPS molds, it's lawyers. Why take double the risk versus making something novel that will likely sell better anyway?
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 Yodhrin wrote:


I have to ask, as I keep seeing it come up; what's peoples' issue with resin?


On one hand, price and quantity. Resin models are usually "boutique" priced and come singularly, or in small quantities, while HIPS stuff is (well, often) priced much more affordably and can come in some solid numbers per box. Assuming we're talking troops of course. Hanskrampf answeered the plastic heroes thing perfectly.

Probably a secondary concern for people would be that, plastic is much nicer to work with, plastic cement, "feels" less toxic, etc. And I say this while personally having plenty of resin.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 Yodhrin wrote:
For example; "resin dust is toxic!!!!1". Yes, so is HIPS dust. So is any synthetic chemical product turned into a powder you could breathe in. Yet ask the folk who bring it up in relation to resin if they use a respirator or FFP3 dust mask when sanding & filing HIPS models and most of them don't.


My understanding is that resin isn't toxic once cured. The dust can cause respiratory problems, but that's simply because it's dust - you'll get the same helth problems working in any dusty environment. You could spend 12 hours a day licking lumps of cured resin with no problem.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 Breotan wrote:
Resin, which you say you don't like, but set up like a kit so you can differentiate models like in 40k.

https://www.ragingheroes.com/



A warning about Raging Heroes: their resin needs to be washed, probably more than once, in hot water with a strong detergent. They use a very greasy, persistent mold release agent.

But the minis look great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if you are working with superglue you will probably want to use an accelerant, something that makes the glue dry quicker. It makes the difference between holding two resin pieces together for five seconds and five minutes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/17 16:12:32


   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Also, if you are working with superglue you will probably want to use an accelerant, something that makes the glue dry quicker. It makes the difference between holding two resin pieces together for five seconds and five minutes.

Thanks for the advice! My experience with resin/metal has been very limited but recently I have been building a ton of resin/metal figures and I was just mad about gluing them. The dam things glue better to my fingers than between the two parts I'm trying to glue together!

I was spoiled with how easy is to glue plastic kits with plastic-glue...

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ginjitzu wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
Spoiler:
Yup, plastic only becomes viable with mass production, and the market of "people who like GW stuff but want alternative versions from other companies" isn't anywhere close to big enough to justify mass production - the only reason we're getting plastic not-Sisters is the company doing that project had already put loads of work(and, likely, money) into it before GW announced they'd be doing plastic actual-Sisters next year.

I have to ask, as I keep seeing it come up; what's peoples' issue with resin? Like, I can understand not wanting to use metal models; unless you like the weighty feel there's not many upsides to them, and a lot of downsides(hard to convert, heavy to transport in numbers, paint chips off often even after varnishing etc), but resin has almost all the same qualities as HIPS and the prep work is only egregious in cases where either the model is a poor cast(which is a QC issue rather than a material issue) or if you don't do any prep work to HIPS models at all.


Actually Yodhrin, the absolute truth is that I've never actually used resin, but I've just read so many negative things about it that I've developed a strong prejudice against it. I suppose it's possible that many of these disadvantages have been blown out of proportion and that this prejudice is rather unfair. Maybe I should try out some resin and see for myself some time.


I've worked with a lot of resin, and it often happens that very small scale shops have infinitely better casting than Forgeworld, which is indeed a pain in the ass.

We're working on a GD piece at the moment and let me tell you, we wish we had gone with a good recast because of the surface texture mess we got from FW.

On the other hand, I have some not-warp-spiders which cost twice the price of the GW models, are incredibly nice, and required less prep work than most plastic kits.

The only real downsides of resin are: if you need to do more than just removing light mold lines, get a paint mask - and - you need proper super glue to glue it (like zap-a-gap, cheap gak like Army painter or your usual super glue will just end up having to be glued again and again and again).



What's more, once I started working with resin, I finally realized how much prep work is really necessary to make a model perfect, and that's where you see that Plastic isn't really any better.

To me, the huge advantage (and disadvantage at times) of plastic is that you have some readily available poly cement to melt it and join it into one big piece of semi-shock resistant styrene, i.e. your miniatures will take a fall with no issues.

But then, if you look at the resin we're casting here these days, it's (and I don't really like that) quite elastic and won't easily be damaged by hitting the ground, while also retaining good detail.


Basically, it depends on who you get the resin from (cheap gak resin from China, horrible casting quality from ForgeWorld, or sometimes nice resin and good level casting from a small shop).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Thin bits because resin tends to be more brittle than HIPS. It depends a lot on the brand, mixture, and casting process of course, but in general while you'd be happy to leave a plastic spear shaft on a "28mm" model, for resin you probably want to replace it with brass rod even if it's not bendy, just to be on the safe side.


That's because people cast with bad resin.

The immense majority of the casters still use epoxy, probably for economic reasons, when it's clearly not tough, has terrible dimensional accuracy (even FWs has visible shrinkage...), etc.


Proper resin, i.e. ABS-simulation Polyurethane, will take way more of a beating than any plastic or resin miniature you've ever seen.


But then, it seems that for so many of these thrifty casters, saving maybe 5 bucks per Kg of resin is worth creating lower quality product.

I personally don't get it - I mean when you're a low-cost recaster, why not, but if you're selling specialized products at an average rate of 500-1000 bucks per Kg of cast resin... why bother with inferior materials.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


A warning about Raging Heroes: their resin needs to be washed, probably more than once, in hot water with a strong detergent. They use a very greasy, persistent mold release agent.

But the minis look great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if you are working with superglue you will probably want to use an accelerant, something that makes the glue dry quicker. It makes the difference between holding two resin pieces together for five seconds and five minutes.


Two things here: you're not supposed to use mold release agent if you have the right molds and the right resin - but then most of these people still cast epoxy so go figure... I don't use release agent, don't need any, never have to clean it up.

About superglue accelerator:

It does work but it seems to force the superglue to dry too quick and imo forms a less structurally sound bond.
It is largely replaced by using Zap a Gap medium which has a fast initial set requiring no accelerator.
It smells terrible (at least the Army Painter one).

In short, we don't use it and won't ever again.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/18 20:37:23


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

I have had more issued with resin miniatures breaking (the resin itself) than with the glue failing. I'll have to try the zap a gap to see if it cures noticeable faster than Loctite Control Gel without accelerant, because I have certainly had glue fail because my hands were shaking too much from holding tiny pieces together for it to set in a proper bond.

Thank you for delineating at least two types of resin. I was curious why some casters were so superior to others. I quite enjoyed working with resin from Hawk Wargames (Dropzone Commander), Paulson Games, Spiral Arm Studios (Maelstrom's Edge), Mantic (some of their large creatures are proper resin), Prodos (Warzone), and a few other small studios. Most of the big names I started using, like Forge World and Spartan Games, were pretty darn terrible, and turned me off of resin for a decade.

   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Wait, FW use epoxy resin? Errr, I'm fairly sure they use polyurethane. Their issues are more to do with volume of production and periods of inadequate QC. In fact I don't know of any miniature companies using epoxy, I've only heard of that from the cheapest dodgy recasters, everyone seems to be using polyurethane. Maybe not super expensive "ABS-simulation" version, but expecting companies to fork over for industrial-grade materials for wee toy figures is a bit unreasonable when the normal and much cheaper stuff will work perfectly well in 99% of scenarios; you might as well insist they use a top of the line automated C&C system to machine every model from marine-grade steel.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

FW do use PU resin.


   
 
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