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Feels like I can level guys up to level 2 but then immediately have to sit them on my commander roster because I don't have the spare points to bring higher level guys at more then 1-2 at a time and still bring any upgrades. Example: All of my DW specialists leveled to 2, then I tried to make my roster, and basically I had to bring a new leader,(with a power sword instead of xenoblade) and a a new gunner(that did not have a fragcannon) and a starting combat specialist so that I could bring my level 2 Comms and Heavy. That is an awful lot of new guys in my unit to fit 2 level 2 specialists. It seems to be if playing campaigns and the same # of games, the costs should be ignored.

 Coyote81 wrote:
It seems to be if playing campaigns and the same # of games, the costs should be ignored.

That would double punish the people who are already losing as you'd be getting free points and your guys aren't dead.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:
It seems to be if playing campaigns and the same # of games, the costs should be ignored.

That would double punish the people who are already losing as you'd be getting free points and your guys aren't dead.

Everyone gets XP, often the loser gets more xp, the only thing the winner gets is "territory" The winner can have guys die just as often as the loser, I don't see the point. Having played Mordheim for a seriously long time, I know that the win lost can slightly affect the game (Which was offset by xp bonuses for warbands with less xp) But in Killteam, it's needed even less. Killteam with more models are generating more xp per match anyways, to me it seems to balance itself out. Where as in the current setup, hoard armies have a distinct advantage, as their specialists level up they can afford to drop one cheap guy here or there and continue to bring all their leveled up specialists. My 5 man DW squad immediately has to drop a specialist or two and bring fresh guys else where to continue to play.

 Coyote81 wrote:
Feels like I can level guys up to level 2 but then immediately have to sit them on my commander roster because I don't have the spare points to bring higher level guys at more then 1-2 at a time and still bring any upgrades. Example: All of my DW specialists leveled to 2, then I tried to make my roster, and basically I had to bring a new leader,(with a power sword instead of xenoblade) and a a new gunner(that did not have a fragcannon) and a starting combat specialist so that I could bring my level 2 Comms and Heavy. That is an awful lot of new guys in my unit to fit 2 level 2 specialists. It seems to be if playing campaigns and the same # of games, the costs should be ignored.

Our campaign starting game three is ramping up the points values specifically to allow players to bring specialists. We went up to 110 game 3, 115 game 4, etc.

The other option is to go to a 4-man team and shoot for 90 instead of 100, getting that extra CP a turn.

the_scotsman wrote:
Our campaign starting game three is ramping up the points values specifically to allow players to bring specialists. We went up to 110 game 3, 115 game 4, etc.

The other option is to go to a 4-man team and shoot for 90 instead of 100, getting that extra CP a turn.

^^This. You need to slowly increase your points values as you play more games to give people a chance to compensate.

We're going to increase the points level in my campaign as well, but still, I'm reluctant to spend 19 pts in a single Skitarius model who can die just as well to a 7 pts models, just because now at lvl 2 he can reroll 1s to Wound. I had two Leaders written in my Roster just because I didn't want to pay 14 pts instead of 10 for a guy that will hide in his deployment zone all game.

I think the point increases are not really balanced, seeing as some abilities are more game-changing than others.

There are campaign escalation rules in the back of the core book. I currently have 3 level 2's (Leader, Demo, Comms) and a level 3 (Sniper) as my 100pt Deathwatch Primaris Killteam. My Leader, Sniper and Comms are about to go up another level so the extra 25pts we're adding will be mostly gone straight away.

the_scotsman wrote:
The other option is to go to a 4-man team and shoot for 90 instead of 100, getting that extra CP a turn.

Isn't that extra point something you only gain in the very first turn?

 Arnizipal wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
The other option is to go to a 4-man team and shoot for 90 instead of 100, getting that extra CP a turn.

Isn't that extra point something you only gain in the very first turn?

Oh, shoot you're right. I thought it was 1 per battle round, but it does say "at the beginning of the first battle round"

Yeah, that's so not worth it I'm not sure why they even put it in the rules. I thought going low might be an actually useful strategic decision for a second there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aaranis wrote:
We're going to increase the points level in my campaign as well, but still, I'm reluctant to spend 19 pts in a single Skitarius model who can die just as well to a 7 pts models, just because now at lvl 2 he can reroll 1s to Wound. I had two Leaders written in my Roster just because I didn't want to pay 14 pts instead of 10 for a guy that will hide in his deployment zone all game.

I think the point increases are not really balanced, seeing as some abilities are more game-changing than others.

Just dismiss the leader (or whatever specialist you don't want leveling up) and re-add them to the roster as a new model.

IMO, there are certain types of specialists who are worth leveling, and certain types that aren't. Scouts are so bad I wouldn't ever include them in a roster unless you're playing random missions and you're Tau (at that point it's worth having a scout so you can re-roll the "you must use melee to win" mission). Comms are awesome level 1 but not worth advancing. Leaders are only worth advancing for horde armies (to get to Inspiring or Paragon).

But Combat, Sniper, Demo, Medic, Veteran can all be extremely powerful when you level them up if you do it smart. I pay 29 points for my Survivor Veteran with a Storm Shield and I do it with a smile on my face and a spring in my step.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Arnizipal wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
The other option is to go to a 4-man team and shoot for 90 instead of 100, getting that extra CP a turn.

Isn't that extra point something you only gain in the very first turn?

Oh, shoot you're right. I thought it was 1 per battle round, but it does say "at the beginning of the first battle round"

Yeah, that's so not worth it I'm not sure why they even put it in the rules. I thought going low might be an actually useful strategic decision for a second there.

Indeed, had to do a second take there myself.
At first I thought they were going for an underdog bonus like in AoS but it's just a very small one-off advantage.

Perhaps it's intended to allow the player with the smaller force to use the additional tactical advantage to quickly dispatch an opposing kill team member so the odds are evened out a bit, but it's far too circumstantial to be of actual use.

Personally, I'd rather pay the upgrade costs on elite guys rather than cheap ones. Yeah, I can more easily drop something like an ork boy to make room, but then I end up paying several times the model's original cost just for the upgrades, which just isn't worth it for me.

Granted, I recycle anyone with experience in my Ork KT, as it's just not worth it to even pay the additional point for leveling up the boyz. None of the upgrades are worth paying 17%+ more for on a model with a 6+ save.

the_scotsman wrote:I pay 29 points for my Survivor Veteran with a Storm Shield and I do it with a smile on my face and a spring in my step.

Sadly, they specifically called out that the Survivor ability doesn't work on invul saves in the errata.

 Trimarius wrote:
Personally, I'd rather pay the upgrade costs on elite guys rather than cheap ones. Yeah, I can more easily drop something like an ork boy to make room, but then I end up paying several times the model's original cost just for the upgrades, which just isn't worth it for me.

Granted, I recycle anyone with experience in my Ork KT, as it's just not worth it to even pay the additional point for leveling up the boyz. None of the upgrades are worth paying 17%+ more for on a model with a 6+ save.

the_scotsman wrote:I pay 29 points for my Survivor Veteran with a Storm Shield and I do it with a smile on my face and a spring in my step.

Sadly, they specifically called out that the Survivor ability doesn't work on invul saves in the errata.

Ah, missed that. 2+ 3++ is still awesome though and makes him more broadly useful against stuff like guard lasguns and other small arms.

 Arnizipal wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
The other option is to go to a 4-man team and shoot for 90 instead of 100, getting that extra CP a turn.

Isn't that extra point something you only gain in the very first turn?

You also only get it if the opponent's kill team is 10 points higher than yours. If you have 90 points and opponent has 99, you don't get the point. Lots of lists in my league are 96-99 points so you would have to limit yourself to 86 to make sure you get the point.

My group's campaign is a longer campaign with more starting resources, but a strict 100 point limit. Not sure whether I should be leveling up my guys as that drastically increases points costs.

Right now, I've got a level 2 Scion Sniper with Marksman and a Plasma Gun, and a Scion Fireteam at level 2 with Lucky. Everyone else is still level 1.

Also, the guy running the campaign is allowing commanders, but the hard 100 point limit stays in effect. I almost want some Commander that can get in close so I can deal with a Genestealer Cult player who has been winning every match, but that'll be expensive, and limit the number of guys I can bring...