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Got a game tomorrow against DE, competitive and need help coming up with a list. I said I would use my Thousand Sons, but struggling to come up with a list I'm happy with. He is keen to face Magnus, but we are constrained by a 1250pts limit. I have the following:

Magnus,
Ahriman,
3 Exalted sorcerers, one on disc,
5 Terminators with soul reaper and hellfire
2 x 10 man Rubric squad, each with soul reaper and icon
1 X 10 man warp flamer Rubric squad with soul reaper and icon,
Rhino,
Las Pred.

I was thinking of potentially going Supreme Command with the sorcerers and Ahriman, backed by Magnus and the Termies. Though the thought of a Squad of flamer rubrics is tempting.

Pure DE won't have much of an answer to a strong psychic force at 1250. You'll roll over them in the psychic phase. You could bring Mortarian, stack him with buffs to keep him alive (-1, etc), and just smash them. Morty and Magnus would probably be unstoppable for DE at 1250.

Indeed, you need to rely on Psychic powers as you are unlikely to out shoot them or ever get your Rubric that close to them.
I'd be weary of using Magnus against DE, though. Even though your opponent is specifically requesting it, just know that DE have always been good at taking out big targets. It's being their thing since 5th ed (or before).
So Magnus is an ideal target for them and if he isn't protected somehow, 1250pts of DE can drop him in 1 turn pretty reliably.

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Whoever goes first will win. Poisoned weapons are incredibly effective against high T targets like magnus or morty. Unless you get really, really lucky he'll drop your primarch in a single round. If you go first then you'll be able to buff yourself so you might manage to survive.

He won't have enough dakka to drop Magnus if you keep him back. Warp time is a thing. Mortarian, once he gets into the enemy lines, will cause real trouble, and still has that feel no pain.

Dark Eldar fold like a house of cards in melee, and none of the boats have an invuln save in melee. Unless he's running Homonculous, in which case, he won't be able to shoot you off the board.

Suggesting that 1250 points could one-turn a buffed primarch is comical. Mortarian, just take him with his very strong body guard unit.

Don't build for command points, you won't need them for much other than rerolls of individual bad dice.

I look at what you've got and honestly I don't think you have much chance, most of what you've got is marines, something that DE are particualrly efficient at killing. Your best chance is very much going to come from doubling down on the psychic powers, but don't take Magnus as he's generally terrible.

Primortus wrote:
Whoever goes first will win. Poisoned weapons are incredibly effective against high T targets like magnus or morty. Unless you get really, really lucky he'll drop your primarch in a single round. If you go first then you'll be able to buff yourself so you might manage to survive.

Thats overstating things a bit, sure Splinter isn't bad but it'll be the Dark Light weapons and Disintegrators that drop Magnus not the poison.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:
He won't have enough dakka to drop Magnus if you keep him back. Warp time is a thing. Mortarian, once he gets into the enemy lines, will cause real trouble, and still has that feel no pain.

Dark Eldar fold like a house of cards in melee, and none of the boats have an invuln save in melee. Unless he's running Homonculous, in which case, he won't be able to shoot you off the board.

Suggesting that 1250 points could one-turn a buffed primarch is comical. Mortarian, just take him with his very strong body guard unit.

Don't build for command points, you won't need them for much other than rerolls of individual bad dice.

Keep him back where? If DE go first they easily have the speed to get wherever they need to to unload a lot of firepower, and Magnus obviously isn't buffed at that point.

Magnus is fantastic if you pair him with Morty, or build around him. I mean wtf.

1. You can give magnus a 3++ with stratagems even if you go second.

2. Poison is rapid fire. Stay back. Big guys move fast and fly.

3. If they move up and you have mortarian it's GG.

It'd be funny to watch you play against a tuned morty + magnus list. You'd move up and deal some damage, then you'd lose 3 ravagers, and eat a ton of mortals from morty in 1 turn. If you didn't already kill magnus you're proper hosed.

Magically I won a game with GK against DE.

Typically I play vanilla marines. As said above, the psychic phase is how you win. Use this, spam out smites and buffs. Unfortunately you don't have force weapons on all of your guys so melee will be a bit more difficult

You're also playing marines (let's not sugar coat it) so you're at a disadvantage unless you ditch your rubrics for Cultists, which I feel you're against that and more power to you!

It really depends a whole lot on what type of dark eldar army your opponent is using. I use Obsidian Rose (+6" range) Kabalites and I have had no trouble dropping Magnus in 2 turns when he is buffed. He can only target so many units at a time, and DE are fantastic at spreading out, while still being able to concentrate your fire power. To echo most of the comments, psychic phase is where you will have a decisive advantage, regardless of the type of DE army.

 Marmatag wrote:
Magnus is fantastic if you pair him with Morty, or build around him. I mean wtf.

1. You can give magnus a 3++ with stratagems even if you go second.

2. Poison is rapid fire. Stay back. Big guys move fast and fly.

3. If they move up and you have mortarian it's GG.

It'd be funny to watch you play against a tuned morty + magnus list. You'd move up and deal some damage, then you'd lose 3 ravagers, and eat a ton of mortals from morty in 1 turn. If you didn't already kill magnus you're proper hosed.

I played a 750 team tornament and I had DE allies

I was a gallant with relic missle and 2 helverines.


DE 1 turned morty with 5 venoms with 7 blasters and 26 khabs (out of rapid fire) He rolled pretty good on his saves and was left with 5 wounds. 1 helvrine finished him off and gallant advanced and charged a nurgle daemon price - 1turned him too. It was hilarious.


I don't think ether of those guys can handle 1250 DE firepower. If hes going pure cheese and spamming venoms with blaster khabs.

 Marmatag wrote:
Magnus is fantastic if you pair him with Morty, or build around him. I mean wtf.

1. You can give magnus a 3++ with stratagems even if you go second.

2. Poison is rapid fire. Stay back. Big guys move fast and fly.

3. If they move up and you have mortarian it's GG.

It'd be funny to watch you play against a tuned morty + magnus list. You'd move up and deal some damage, then you'd lose 3 ravagers, and eat a ton of mortals from morty in 1 turn. If you didn't already kill magnus you're proper hosed.

What stratagem are you referring to? Warpsurge? Because that hasn't been usable on magnus or mortarion in a long time.

Without their buffs (which they won't have if they go second) magnus is downright fragile and mortarion is little better. Yes mortarion has a bodyguard unit, but they're 105 points for 6 wounds that can't keep up with him.

105 points, but it's more than 6 wounds because they have a 2+/4++. And you pass off HITS to them, which means you can take their saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Magnus is fantastic if you pair him with Morty, or build around him. I mean wtf.

1. You can give magnus a 3++ with stratagems even if you go second.

2. Poison is rapid fire. Stay back. Big guys move fast and fly.

3. If they move up and you have mortarian it's GG.

It'd be funny to watch you play against a tuned morty + magnus list. You'd move up and deal some damage, then you'd lose 3 ravagers, and eat a ton of mortals from morty in 1 turn. If you didn't already kill magnus you're proper hosed.

I played a 750 team tornament and I had DE allies

I was a gallant with relic missle and 2 helverines.


DE 1 turned morty with 5 venoms with 7 blasters and 26 khabs (out of rapid fire) He rolled pretty good on his saves and was left with 5 wounds. 1 helvrine finished him off and gallant advanced and charged a nurgle daemon price - 1turned him too. It was hilarious.


I don't think ether of those guys can handle 1250 DE firepower. If hes going pure cheese and spamming venoms with blaster khabs.

Sure, so, statistically insignificant things can happen. This is a game based on random outcomes.

The expected damage from the firepower you listed was less than 6. I don't see how you could claim that he rolled "pretty good on his saves."

And this is also why people pay 105 points for the body guard. They will prevent him from being turn 1'd even if you roll awful, because his bodyguard have a 2+/4++.

It's also worth pointing out that a Gallant would fundamentally change how Morty and Magnus play against DE. DE are generally paper thin in combat, so charging Morty upfield presents no risk outside of shooting. That changes if you have a relic'd out Gallant with a 4++ in melee.

I know how the deathshroud works, I use them fairly often.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not trying to imply that the primarchs are weak, they definitely are not. However a primarch getting killed in a single turn is not "statistically insignificant", it actually happens quite often, because they just aren't very durable by 8th edition standards.
The way you talk about the primarchs, you make them sound like an automatic "I win" button, which they definitely are not. They can put out an amazing amount of damage, and mortarion at least is a great force multiplier but they are not without weaknesses.

Turn 1 against the firepower he listed, it is insignificant. And at 1250 points you will be able to weather the storm.

I'm not here to talk about what works and what doesn't overall, because it is flatly known that Death Guard /w Magnus battery is a top tier competitive list. Let's stop acting like there's no skill involved in this game, a good player running this combo is devastating.

16" move + 18" Rapid fire is 34". How is Magnus able to stay out of that range?
And Dissies care not about getting close.

I certainly agree that 1250pts of DE might not drop a Primarch in 1 turn while buffed, but you'd be a fool to assume they couldn't drop an unbuffed Primarch in a turn with even moderate rolls.
You should still take steps to mitigate a unlucky first turn. "Staying back" is ok, but far from gaunteed with DE movement and range. You want to hide instead, terrain permitting

In any case I would hesitate taking bot Magnus and Morty against DE at only 1250. Literally every gun they have is ideal for either one and you won't have enough of an army to support them (which the DE can target instead and just get rid of them early to then just ignore the Primarchs, or sarcrifice a unit or turn per turn an just go for objectives)

But if DE go second, yeah, they're probably in for a bad day.

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Oh well in that case GG easy.

You guys should go to the next major GT or LVO, if you can stomp a Morty + Magnus list in theorycraft you can beat literally any list in the game. It's a top list in the hands of a good player, and since you can dismiss it trivially ("Venoms in rapid fire range = dead magnus lololol") you can beat literally anyone.

Death Guard is the army right now, and Thousand Sons can represent well in any major as well. You have all the tools you need. "Mono DE" don't exist for excellent reasons. Think about what they are and exploit.

Some tips:

1. If they move forward max distance they'll have no rerolls at all.
2. They have no psychic defense.
3. They have no melee defense, ships only get invulns in shooting.

I am not dismissing anything. I am just saying don't be over confident that Morty or Magnus will stomp through a DE list. If any faction has the tools to drop large models in a single turn, it's DE. It's been DE for the last few editions.
Just a friendly warning for any Chaos player.

Once Magnus is up an going, he can certainly be a struggle for any list. But DE have the range, movement and number of shots to be able to do it if they get first turn before he gets buffed up. So just don't be careless or cavalier with Magnus or Morty.
And don't forget that DE have a Strat that can make one of your strats fail. So if you are planning to use something if you don't go first, it might get ignored.

And I'm just talking about an "all-comers" DE list. if this particular game is specifically build to fight Magnus, then you can bet the DE player is going to pack as much in his list to drop him quickly.

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Against DE, your best bet is to smash them in CC where their -1 to hit and 5++ dont work.

Psykic works too, but keep in mind that their raiders/ravagers have 10 wounds, and the venoms have 6. Thats a lot of D3 smites that have to go off to kill a raider. And even more units that need to be able to all target the same thing at the same time.

Just saying that smite kills may be harder to pull off than you think. Screening and cover will be very important for you.