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2018/10/15 18:46:21
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Cult Marines like WE Berserkers, EC Noise Marines, TS Rubrics and DG Plague Marines have all been known to be part of a Chaos Warband that isn't necessarily associated with their parent Legion, such as part of a Black Crusade. This is why the Chaos Index/Codex allows such Marines to be Elites in any CSM army.
We also know that in recent years, these fragmented groups have rejoined their parent Legions such as Tsons being more unified and Death Guard.
Is it possible for remnants of Cult Marines that have not rejoined their parent Legion to be reduced to such a point that they just join whatever unit fills a similar role?
Like a lone surviving Noise Marine joining a Havoc squad for example?
Or more specifically, how outlandish would it be for a single unit of Chaos Terminators to have members from WE, EC, TS, DG and BL? Assuming they originally were part of a larger Warband and are now the lone survivors of each of their respective units and therefore have pulled together as a unit? Each now sporting BL Heraldry on 1 shoulder.
Loyalist Marines can do this via Deathwatch, so why not Chaos?
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2018/10/15 18:58:33
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
Watch Fortress Excalibris
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Isn't that pretty much what the Black Legion is in the modern fluff?
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A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry. |
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2018/10/15 19:17:53
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Well, there's really a couple questions there.
1) Could a Cult Marine join a regular warband unit?
2) Would the Cult Marine stop being a Cult Marine?
Rules-wise, this doesn't matter in the slightest. Lore-wise, it's never been covered in the fluff.
A better way to put it may be to think about the regular CSM unit. Would they want a Plague Marine hanging out near their autocannons?
CSMs are notorious for killing each other, there's no honor, there's just the favor of the Dark Gods and their servants. In a lot of cases, a survivor would be seen as a failed servant of the Gods and find himself prey to the whims of his fellows in the warband.
So I think the answers are:
1) A Cult Marine would have a hard time joining a regular unit. Maybe if he killed the Aspiring Champion and told everyone else they are now following him. Otherwise, if they let him in, he would be looking over his shoulder the whole time.
2) A Cult Marine would still be a Cult Marine. They don't come back from that. A Rubric, for example, is just dust in a shell. A Berzerker has implants that can't be removed and force him to fight. A Noise Marine is addicted to every sensation. A Plague Marine is an armored sack of pus.
As far as the mixed unit, that would not happen. Khorne hates Slannesh, Nurgle hates Tzeentch, their devoted followers would kill each other. It would be a spectacular fight tho.
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2018/10/15 19:30:45
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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The reason I ask is that I am working on 5 Terminators, 1 from each god-aligned Legion and I already have a BL terminator.
Was just trying to work out a potential fluff for the unit, but as mentioned, mixed units are a big no-no in the fluff.
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2018/10/15 19:43:57
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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I don't think it's as strict as techsoldaten points out. Though I agree with his assessment about Rubrics and Plague Marines I could actually imagine a Noise marine joining a squad of other slaanesh following marines, as well as a berzerker following Khorne marines.
Mixing different marks is also possible in a Word bearers army, though I'm not sure if you'll find actual Cult marines there.
The Black Legion actually had a warband for each god, so even there they didn't seem to really mix.
Edit:
I really like your idea and am planning something similar for my terminators. They will all be Nurgle marked, but they'll be from all different kinds of nurgle warbands
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 19:45:19
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2018/10/15 19:45:23
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Galef wrote:The reason I ask is that I am working on 5 Terminators, 1 from each god-aligned Legion and I already have a BL terminator.
Was just trying to work out a potential fluff for the unit, but as mentioned, mixed units are a big no-no in the fluff.
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Well, as long as we are not talking about stuff to be used on the tabletop.
The Black Legion had a special unit in 7th called a Cyclopia Cabal. You had to have at least 3 Sorcerers, but they would get an extra special psychic power - Shroud of Deceit. It let you shoot with your opponent's units.
Maybe the Black Legion, Slaanesh and Tzeentch Terminators are Sorcerors in a Cyclopia Cabal and the Khorne and Nurgle ones are their thralls. That would be some interesting fluff.
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2018/10/15 20:11:42
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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The other three, possibly, but Rubrics/SOT's definitely would not be able to incorporate themselves into an otherwise normal unit. Rubricae tend to just shamble around without a Sorcerer to direct them.
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2018/10/16 09:54:36
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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I cant see why not in a black legion unit, or if you have a powerful chaos lord, gathering followers and having them as part of his command squad etc. so long as they wore BL/uniform colours, you could always give them an identifying helm or shoulder guard. and there are TS who are not rubricae, so they could also be used. you could also come up with some ragtag warband ala khayon, lheor, telemachon etc. although I guess they hadnt dedicated themselves to the gods at that time.. so you'd have to figure out a story, but theyre your dudes..do what you like haha.
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Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs |
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2018/10/16 10:17:33
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne
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I imagine there are warbands roaming the Eye of every cult, Legion, God, etc, often mixed together out of necessity.
Although as I'd also imagine that life for a smaller warband is just a matter of survival, I doubt you'd see them in a large scale battle.
Sounds ideal for something Kill Team scale though.
Like others said, they are your guys, do what you like. Strange units often provide good stories.
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2018/10/16 13:42:46
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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I think I might say the unit is lead by a BL Terminator Champion who is trying to win the favor of all 4 gods (or Chaos Undivided) and has specifically picked a Retinue consisting of members from the 4 aligned legions. The Tsons Terminator could be a lesser Sorceror (so not a Rubric) The DG could be a Termie that is not quite so bless by Nurgle yet. The EC and WE are there for the fun of it All members of the unit could have joined the BL during one of the earlier Black Crusades and were chosen by the unit Champion to stay while the others from their original warbands units rejoined parent Legions. Eventually, I want to play a 5 Termie vs 5 Termie game in which each Termie is its own unit (either regular Termies or Captains/Lords). The Loyalist side would have 1 Termie from each Codex (which I already have painted) -
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/16 13:47:04
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2018/10/16 19:37:01
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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I’ve read it in the fluff that traitor marines in the same unit are marked by different gods, but i’ve never come across full on cult marines in the same unit.
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Imperial Soup
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2018/10/16 19:48:10
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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phillv85 wrote:I’ve read it in the fluff that traitor marines in the same unit are marked by different gods, but i’ve never come across full on cult marines in the same unit.
I think I shouldn't have stated "cult" marines in the OP, but just Marked Marines from different legions.
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2018/10/16 23:53:59
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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As early as I can remember it was stated that Black Legion have access to Berzerker surgeons, Kson Sorcerers to replicate the Rubric, Death Guard necromancers to create Plague marines, and some high grade warp space dust to blast off as a Noise Marine.
I myself painted up a unit of Possessed a similar way, with all 4 gods present and a BL Champion leading them.
Hadn't considered the fact they probably would just start killing each other instead... But its your force, forge the narrative any direction you like!
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2018/10/17 11:15:33
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Chosen of Abaddon was a retinue of chaos lords, variously marked.
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2018/10/17 15:22:40
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Fresh-Faced New User
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In Dembski-Bowden’s Black Legion books there are Black Legionnaires who were former World Eaters and Emperor’s Children. They are definitely not cult marines though. They abandon their former markings when they join the BL. The only cult marines shown are Rubrics, who form their own unit as the bodyguard of a former Thousand Sons sorceror (the protagonist of the books). They also repaint their armor in BL colors.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/17 15:25:33
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2018/10/17 15:54:55
Subject: Cult Marines as part of a Black Legion Warband
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Stoic Grail Knight
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The trend of the Chaos Legions reforging seems to be a more recent one. For a long time, the most organized Chaos Legion was Donny's Black Legion, aside from that the going fluff was that the other legions had by and large splintered into various warbands with their own agendas and goals. Really its only recent fluff that has Thousand Sons and Death Guard reforging and reuniting their legions under their Primarch's leadership.
Truth be told, this system gives a lot of flexibility for worshipers of different gods to unite under the same banner. Since unlike the loyalists, Chaos Forces are a cult of personality centered around a powerful leader figure- typically a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince. Often those leader's might hail from one of the Traitor Legion, or membership in the warband might favor one god or another. But Chaos is nothing if not fickle and inconsistent. What I'm saying is, if you have a particularly powerful and enigmatic Chaos Lord or Terminator Aspiring Champion, it would not be unheard of for warriors with allegiance to multiple different gods to flock to his banner in order to try to get a piece of his dark glory.
You might say, well wouldn't a Slaanesh Lord be worried about a squad of Khorne Berzerkers in his warband trying to usurp him. The answer is yes, but, not anymore so than he was worried about fellow Slaaneshi followers trying to usurp him. The Berzerkers will stay "loyal" to him provided he can continues to provide them with battles and opportunity to achieve glory for their god. Indeed, it wouldn't be any different for a Khorne Lord.
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