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Fact 206 from the 500 facts article:

Some humans in the Warhammer 40,000 universe bear a rare feature that makes them functionally immortal. They are known as Perpetuals, and the two most famous examples are Vulkan, the Primarch of the Salamanders Legion, and the Emperor of Mankind.

I've seen a lot of debate in the past about whether the Emperor is a perpetual, and this seems to confirm it!

That implies to me that the Emperor originated as a regular perpetual (as far as that's a thing!), and gained his additional abilities on top of that. As opposed to being a completely inhuman entity of other origin.

I mean he could be a perpetual because he's a completely inhuman entity of other origin

How in the hell is the Emperor a more famous perpetual than John Grammaticus when nobody even knew if the Emperor was a perpetual or not and Johnny G was the one who the term was coined for?

 SHUPPET wrote:
How in the hell is the Emperor a more famous perpetual than John Grammaticus when nobody even knew if the Emperor was a perpetual or not and Johnny G was the one who the term was coined for?

Because everyone knows about the Emperor whilst most people have not heard of Grammaticus. (He is some dude from BL books, right?)

 SHUPPET wrote:
How in the hell is the Emperor a more famous perpetual than John Grammaticus when nobody even knew if the Emperor was a perpetual or not and Johnny G was the one who the term was coined for?

Many people who don't read the novels have never heard of John, I think that's basically what it comes down to.

I mean guys I obviously know the Emperor is tons more famous, it just seems weirdly worded to call him the most famous perpetual when we didn't even know he was one, but I guess its technically true

 SHUPPET wrote:
I mean guys I obviously know the Emperor is tons more famous, it just seems weirdly worded to call him the most famous perpetual when we didn't even know he was one, but I guess its technically true

As much as I hate the whole concept of Perpetuals, the definition of Perpetual is basically an immortal human, and Emperor kinda obviously is one. (At least if we assume his usual backstory of being super ancient.)

I've read most of BL's books (as they will insist on calling them) and don't know who John Grammaticus is, so...

 fraser1191 wrote:
I mean he could be a perpetual because he's a completely inhuman entity of other origin

True. As far as I'm aware, all confirmed Perpetuals are human. But I don't we know this to be an absolute given, or if it's just that they're so rare anyway.

There's also the theory that all Perpetuals are in some way descended from the Emperor, that it's a thing that can happen when you mix Emperor genes with regular humans. In that way, the Emperor could be technically a perpetual while also being much more, an inhuman entity if you will.

 Crimson wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I mean guys I obviously know the Emperor is tons more famous, it just seems weirdly worded to call him the most famous perpetual when we didn't even know he was one, but I guess its technically true

As much as I hate the whole concept of Perpetuals, the definition of Perpetual is basically an immortal human, and Emperor kinda obviously is one. (At least if we assume his usual backstory of being super ancient.)

If that is the definition then sure. I think most people have taken Perpetual to refer to a very specific kind of immortality though.

 Stux wrote:


There's also the theory that all Perpetuals are in some way descended from the Emperor, that it's a thing that can happen when you mix Emperor genes with regular humans. In that way, the Emperor could be technically a perpetual while also being much more, an inhuman entity if you will.

That is basically the old Sense fluff from the Rogue Trader. I was never a huge fan of that bit, but if perpetuals have to exist, then that is way better than them existing 'just because.'

Does the old origin story that the Emperor was born as a result of all the psykers of ancient Earth meeting and committing collective suicide to be reborn into a single individual still hold up?

 Esmer wrote:
Does the old origin story that the Emperor was born as a result of all the psykers of ancient Earth meeting and committing collective suicide to be reborn into a single individual still hold up?

That is not a question that can be answered.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I've read most of BL's books (as they will insist on calling them) and don't know who John Grammaticus is, so...

That's fine, most of us generally remember characters who we read 5 books about, but I get the impression you don't retain a lot of information

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I've read most of BL's books (as they will insist on calling them) and don't know who John Grammaticus is, so...

That's fine, most of us generally remember characters who we read 5 books about, but I get the impression you don't retain a lot of information

Wow, somebody is snappy today!

There are a lot of books John Grammaticus doesn't appear in you know?

 Stux wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I've read most of BL's books (as they will insist on calling them) and don't know who John Grammaticus is, so...

That's fine, most of us generally remember characters who we read 5 books about, but I get the impression you don't retain a lot of information

Wow, somebody is snappy today!

There are a lot of books John Grammaticus doesn't appear in you know?

Ehh, that guy berated me in another thread until a mod had to stop him and coincidentally the next thread I post in he's immediately popping up acting as though I'm talking about guardsman Demetrius from 3 pages of a Tau novel, and not a prominent character in multiple HH books including the main character of at least one of BL's most popular books, and the character who was literally the first defined perpetual. Maybe if he hadn't claimed to have read literally every single one of them it might feel a little less like bitterness, lol

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I've read most of BL's books (as they will insist on calling them) and don't know who John Grammaticus is, so...

That's fine, most of us generally remember characters who we read 5 books about, but I get the impression you don't retain a lot of information

Wow, somebody is snappy today!

There are a lot of books John Grammaticus doesn't appear in you know?

Ehh, that guy berated me in another thread until a mod had to stop him and coincidentally the next thread I post in he's immediately popping up acting as though I'm talking about guardsman Demetrius from 3 pages of a Tau novel, and not a prominent character in multiple HH books including the main character of at least one of BL's most popular books, and the character who was literally the first defined perpetual. Maybe if he hadn't claimed to have read literally every single one of them it might feel a little less like bitterness, lol

Fair enough. Moving on!

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I've read most of BL's books (as they will insist on calling them) and don't know who John Grammaticus is, so...

That's fine, most of us generally remember characters who we read 5 books about, but I get the impression you don't retain a lot of information

That's unfair he was prominent in legion but only alpha legion players would have a good chance of having read that because it's a book that got panned.

And I can think of two other books he has a cameo the unremembered empire and betrayer I think it was.

Hes not that famous.

hobojebus wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I've read most of BL's books (as they will insist on calling them) and don't know who John Grammaticus is, so...

That's fine, most of us generally remember characters who we read 5 books about, but I get the impression you don't retain a lot of information

That's unfair he was prominent in legion but only alpha legion players would have a good chance of having read that because it's a book that got panned.

And I can think of two other books he has a cameo the unremembered empire and betrayer I think it was.

Hes not that famous.

He's in 5 books, and maybe I'm mistaking it but I've never heard anything but positivity about Legion. ADB himself pretty much said it was a masterpiece and that what he would have written if they had given him the book to write would have been much worse. Maybe I was too snappy, the poster in question is what coloured my opinion that it was a troll post a little, if not then whatever, he's a guy who's big thing is that he's a perpetual, not a big deal I just found the wording by GW odd but I guess the Emperor makes more sense. Especially if they wanted to establish it somewhere, it's a difficult thing to convey elsewhere outside of just telling us like this lol

Legion was decent but introduced the weirdness that was the Cabal that was not well received and was latter quietly removed off screen by Eldrad. The Alpha Legion parts were good but the less that is written about the Perpetuals the better.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Legion was decent but introduced the weirdness that was the Cabal that was not well received and was latter quietly removed off screen by Eldrad. The Alpha Legion parts were good but the less that is written about the Perpetuals the better.

I saw this topic come up recently and everyone seemed to agree that Legion is the book that did perpetual right, and it was the rest of them that took the concept to idiot places, and I'm inclined to agree as well.

You credit yourself with vastly more significance than you have, shuppet.

When I 'immediately' posted, over an hour after you had posted here, I didn't realize you were the same poster until you put your butthurt on display.

cool story

Dial down the snark, guys. We're talking about the background for a game of toy soldiers. If that's too stressful for you to do without insulting other people, step away from the keyboard and find a better way to spend your time.






Meanwhile...

 Stux wrote:
Fact 206 from the 500 facts article:

Some humans in the Warhammer 40,000 universe bear a rare feature that makes them functionally immortal. They are known as Perpetuals, and the two most famous examples are Vulkan, the Primarch of the Salamanders Legion, and the Emperor of Mankind.

I've seen a lot of debate in the past about whether the Emperor is a perpetual, and this seems to confirm it!

That implies to me that the Emperor originated as a regular perpetual (as far as that's a thing!), and gained his additional abilities on top of that. As opposed to being a completely inhuman entity of other origin.

Sure. Except...

Games Workshop wrote:179. Everything you have been told is a lie.

Games Workshop wrote:404. Some of these facts might not actually be true.

Yeah, this is a good idea. Let's make an interesting mysterious character who was once powerful and thought as untouchable (until dramatic circumstances lead to him becoming increasingly weakened) into immortal OP god.0 who will just bamf back into existence if he dies... that really takes the suspension away from keeping him barely live with 1000s killed every day. No you don't need to have any fear as you jnow either way he's good.

 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah, this is a good idea. Let's make an interesting mysterious character who was once powerful and thought as untouchable (until dramatic circumstances lead to him becoming increasingly weakened) into immortal OP god.0 who will just bamf back into existence if he dies... that really takes the suspension away from keeping him barely live with 1000s killed every day. No you don't need to have any fear as you jnow either way he's good.

I think if he's a perpetual, it's irrelevant anyway, cause if he dies the Imperium falls before he respawns anyway.

 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah, this is a good idea. Let's make an interesting mysterious character who was once powerful and thought as untouchable (until dramatic circumstances lead to him becoming increasingly weakened) into immortal OP god.0 who will just bamf back into existence if he dies... that really takes the suspension away from keeping him barely live with 1000s killed every day. No you don't need to have any fear as you jnow either way he's good.

Oh right, I forgot the perpetuals were not merely unaging, but also unkillable... Jesus Christ, this is concept is such poison!

 Crimson wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah, this is a good idea. Let's make an interesting mysterious character who was once powerful and thought as untouchable (until dramatic circumstances lead to him becoming increasingly weakened) into immortal OP god.0 who will just bamf back into existence if he dies... that really takes the suspension away from keeping him barely live with 1000s killed every day. No you don't need to have any fear as you jnow either way he's good.

Oh right, I forgot the perpetuals were not merely unaging, but also unkillable. Discord Adobe Reader iTunes .. Jesus Christ, this is concept is such poison!

commonly has a terrible connotation. simply because someone runs a extra aggressive list than you are usually used to would not make that player a WAAC participant. A WAAC participant is also a participant who wants to win so badly as to the exclusion of other human beings's leisure. It goes beyond simply strolling a "netlist". essentially, a WAAC player is often a terrible recreation, will argue policies in his prefer, will semi-cheat to cheating outright, will argue in case you do some thing in an effort to harm his probabilities to win, and will normally be rather unpleasant to play or maybe be round. it's surely all about his mind-set, now not his listing. There are masses of aggressive players who run hard lists, however are fair and fine human beings to play towards. Ask your self this, your GK opponent, is he a douche? despite the fact that his list is hard to play towards, did he do something shady in the game or did he argue plenty? become he best to play towards (now not necessarily his army, however the character himself)? Then you'll realize whether he truely become a WAAC participant or not. To me, it seems like your friend is simply evolving as a participant. it's very common. He plays. He desires to get higher. as a consequence he starts walking tougher lists. soon enough, he's going to probably be going to tournaments. it's simply the natural evolution of many players. You sincerely can't assume him to stay a beers-&-pretzels sort of player forever. just as you prefer casual and pleasant games the usage of fashions that you revel in, he seems to be evolving into the kind of participant that desires to be greater competitive.

The status of the God-Emperor in 40K is pretty much a reflexion of 40K lore in general. It's contradictory, sometime nonsensical or simply dumb as well as being enticing and curious. As far as I am concerned, the God-Emperor is just a dead man at the head of a necrocracy.

sadykaty wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah, this is a good idea. Let's make an interesting mysterious character who was once powerful and thought as untouchable (until dramatic circumstances lead to him becoming increasingly weakened) into immortal OP god.0 who will just bamf back into existence if he dies... that really takes the suspension away from keeping him barely live with 1000s killed every day. No you don't need to have any fear as you jnow either way he's good.

Oh right, I forgot the perpetuals were not merely unaging, but also unkillable... Jesus Christ, this is concept is such poison!

commonly has a terrible connotation. simply because someone runs a extra aggressive list than you are usually used to would not make that player a WAAC participant. A WAAC participant is also a participant who wants to win so badly as to the exclusion of other human beings's leisure. It goes beyond simply strolling a "netlist". essentially, a WAAC player is often a terrible recreation, will argue policies in his prefer, will semi-cheat to cheating outright, will argue in case you do some thing in an effort to harm his probabilities to win, and will normally be rather unpleasant to play or maybe be round. it's surely all about his mind-set, now not his listing. There are masses of aggressive players who run hard lists, however are fair and fine human beings to play towards. Ask your self this, your GK opponent, is he a douche? despite the fact that his list is hard to play towards, did he do something shady in the game or did he argue plenty? become he best to play towards (now not necessarily his army, however the character himself)? Then you'll realize whether he truely become a WAAC participant or not. To me, it seems like your friend is simply evolving as a participant. it's very common. He plays. He desires to get higher. as a consequence he starts walking tougher lists. soon enough, he's going to probably be going to tournaments. it's simply the natural evolution of many players. You sincerely can't assume him to stay a beers-&-pretzels sort of player forever. just as you prefer casual and pleasant games the usage of fashions that you revel in, he seems to be evolving into the kind of participant that desires to be greater competitive.

i have no idea what just happened here but i like it

So now he is confirmed a Perpetual, lets list off another reason why Robute Guilliman is an idiot. (Not new information, but a highlighted one with this confirmation).

The Pharos was an alien machine that acted as a miniature Astronomicon and was used by Guilliman during the heresy to help Loyalist Forces navigate the Ruinstorm (Basically a galaxy wide, mega warp storm) and regroup in Imperium Secundus.

After the battle of Sotha, Guilliman ordered the Pharos to be destroyed. It was dismantled and filled with concrete....Pretty stupid idea to begin with but lets explain why it's worse with the Emperor's true nature confirmed.

If you kill the Emperor, he will 100% revive. Vulkan is proof enough of this (he has literally been atomized in the aft burners of a battle barge). However, once the Emperor dies, the Astronomicon is gone until he gets back up (this can take minutes to days). While the Astronomicon is down, Terra and hundreds of planets and traveling starships would be flooded with Daemons almost instantaneously.

Now lets say, being a super intelligent Primarch Demi-God and best buds with the literal Eisenstein of the 40k universe (CAWL) instead of destroying this insanely powerful device, you might instead try to learn its function and possibly replicate it.

IF the Pharos could be replicated, you could literally switch two or three of them on when you pull the plug on the Emps and heavily mitigate the ensuing Daemon rave. Its not like Guilliman could have predicted the Emps on the throne and all, but destroying such a powerful device is pretty idiotic.