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I don't play KT. I know very few about it. But, essentialy, it is the same that the good old commandos rules, isn't it ? This was SUPER cool, very narrative and great stories (I still remember this battle report, it was IG vs IG, hunting Lichtenstein). But it wasn't that popular, I never saw anyone playing it IRL.
Why is KT the most popular thing in town then ? Just curious to know, as I can't afford to invest more (already playing 40k and necromunda and barely having time and money for it ) ?

Unsure, I guess the market and interests shift as time goes on.

But to the second point, if you already play 40k, the. There is no cost investment as long as the person you play has the rules then you’re good to share!
And time wise, it’s quicker. So I’m in the same boat with time and cost invest,net.
Hard to find time for 40k, where as KT I can easily find the time as it’s quicker, and arguably more fun.

One aspect is marketing, GW is putting a lot more energy into marketing their games, which in turn helps drive sales. The Kill Team Commander packs are basically just repackaged commander blisters and a few other niceties. These act as lures because they are there on the shelf (online/offline) to remind you it exists, to tempt you into it and to even make it easy to get into it even if you've no interest in playing 40K proper.

You want to play Killteam, you don't have to fathom which products from a complicated army page you need, you just grab the products direct for the KT game itself.

Also, as said above, Killteam is 40K light. There's no need to keep any record of battles; its just a quick small skirmish game . These are doing better as many more mature gamers often don't have 5-6 hours on an evening to play; they have to get home to help with the kids; fix the house; get ready for bed and the early start etc.... So they are very happy to have games that let them keep in the hobby, but which are faster to resolve.

I honestly think part of it is that GW did a really good job with the terrain packs and boards.

I think it is a combination of factors - good marketing, it is relatively easy and cheap to get into, shorter playing time, less of a painting commitment. Also, the setting is much more open than Necromunda. Drawing from 40K, it has access to more factions and potential 'warzones'. Necromunda was always pretty limiting - if you're not interested in gang war in a hive setting, the game has nothing else to offer you. Also, Kill Team lets you dabble with relatively low cost buy ins to play a faction you might not be interested enough in to make a 40K army out of. In short, it may be one of GWs best executed game 'systems' in some time.

I'd say it's a combo of good marketing, solid product release and a low entry point. There is no getting around that 40k is an expensive hobby and having enough money to field even one full army and still have the money and time to either travel to a game store or have your own board with enough terrain to play the game is a lot for a new player. Kill team on the other hand is relatively cheap, and if you already have a handful of models, your off to the races. I have 6 grey knight models my friend bought me for my birthday about 9 years ago. No were near enough to play 40k, more than enough to play kill team.

Then if your buying into the game for the first time the Kill team releases are well priced. The Kill zones give you a ton of terrain and a board. The starter set, if split between a friend or two will cost you what you would pay for a video game. Same for the start a kill team bunch, which gives you terrain and models. If a group all buy one you end up with a lot of terrain.

Finally It's really grown in my area because getting the models from the box to the table takes no time at all and the rules are pretty good.

 godardc wrote:
But, essentialy, it is the same that the good old commandos rules, isn't it ? This was SUPER cool, very narrative and great stories (I still remember this battle report, it was IG vs IG, hunting Lichtenstein). But it wasn't that popular, I never saw anyone playing it IRL.?

'
The what? I don't think I've ever heard of a 'Commandos' in regards to GW, the only Lichtenstein I can think of was a renegade Inquisitor from the game Inquisitor?

I think that's probably "Lictors" falling foul of Auto-Correct.

As for "Commandos", no, I don't know either; perhaps the previous Kill Team rules that were simply an add-on for 40k rather than being marketed as a separate game?

Yeah, never heard of it.

Of course, I used the French name, I should have checked it out before.
Maybe it was the same name, I don't know.
Commandos was a 200pts sized game with specialized guys, loose formations (not in squad), random ennemy movements, etc
There were missions like to assassinate a guy, sabotaging a thing...
The rules were in the main rulesbook IIRC, in 4th
Lichtenstein was just featured in a commandos Battle Report

Sooo, essentialy, people are sheep and buy things they are told to buy instead of What they want ?

 godardc wrote:
Of course, I used the French name, I should have checked it out before.
Maybe it was the same name, I don't know.
Commandos was a 200pts sized game with specialized guys, loose formations (not in squad), random ennemy movements, etc
There were missions like to assassinate a guy, sabotaging a thing...
The rules were in the main rulesbook IIRC, in 4th
Lichtenstein was just featured in a commandos Battle Report

Sooo, essentialy, people are sheep and buy things they are told to buy instead of What they want ?

While I liked that version of kill team, it had balance problems due to not being a completed rule set but an add on to 40k. Even with the modified FOC and other restrictions it was easy to break the game open at 200 points while some factions can't function at all that low. KT has balance problems but it's much more even than the old kill team.

Also why are people sheep if they buy an appealing product. KT has sold well, some of the other specialists games haven't.

 godardc wrote:

Sooo, essentialy, people are sheep and buy things they are told to buy instead of What they want ?

Previous editions of Kill Team were the version included in the 5th edition rulebook (one player gets a Kill Team, the other gets a horde of mooks that activate in a semi-programmed way) or expansions with limited promotion. This edition is a separate game, given its own shelf branding and heavy promotion, and is being heavily pushed to independent retailers. It's not surprising more people want to play this edition, simply because more people will have heard of it.

I suppose some people are "sheep", in that they will only play Matched Play or competitive games or whatever they want to think of as the "official" or "correct" way to play, and previous editions of Kill Team fell outside that narrow definition.

 godardc wrote:

Sooo, essentialy, people are sheep and buy things they are told to buy instead of What they want ?

Not remotely. Kill Team has generated more interest in 40k as a whole at my LGS from new players in the few months that its been out than any other game that gets played there (and they play a *lot* of stuff). It's an exceptionally affordable point of entry into a franchise that is (in)famous for being a rich folks only game.

There's a not insignificant contingent of people who want to play a 40k game, but are priced out. Kill Team has, to an extent, solved that problem.

Aye its not a sheep effect so much as it is that Killteam is now the Gateway/entry point product instead of being the side-game included within the main product.

You can buy into Killteam and not have to buy into 40K main at all. You've got dedicated commander and troop boxes, dedicated rules etc.. It is its very own game on the shelf.


To those who are not currently into 40K this makes it an ideal testing the waters game that gets them playing a GW product which they can later expand if they want. Once they are in the door GW can bombard them with other things much more easily - more terrain, scenic bases, Black Library books, White Dwarf etc...


It's a simple, cheaper product that offers a faster flow of gameplay on scenic heavy tables that can look fantastic.

 Overread wrote:

To those who are not currently into 40K this makes it an ideal testing the waters game that gets them playing a GW product which they can later expand if they want. Once they are in the door GW can bombard them with other things much more easily - more terrain, scenic bases, Black Library books, White Dwarf etc...


It's a simple, cheaper product that offers a faster flow of gameplay on scenic heavy tables that can look fantastic.

Exactly. It's also why from a business perspective Commanders is a brilliant concept (reserving judgement on how it actually *plays* for now). Reason being, when you take a Kill Team force, add in a commander, suddenly you're not all that far off from a small points full 40k game. It's a natural evolution that more than one person is going to say "hunh, so if I invest in that one other box of mooks, I can actually play a regular 40k game?".

And if they are gaming at the store or in a club there will be other 40K gamers there already. So one evening they get their extra box and can try a 500point 40K game - then a 1000point game etc...

They won't even need to buy any rules at most clubs (loan of a codex and rules for an intro game) so they can very quickly get a taste and tempted into investing in the bigger game.


Plus its an ideal gift price point for parents too.

 Overread wrote:
And if they are gaming at the store or in a club there will be other 40K gamers there already. So one evening they get their extra box and can try a 500point 40K game - then a 1000point game etc...

They won't even need to buy any rules at most clubs (loan of a codex and rules for an intro game) so they can very quickly get a taste and tempted into investing in the bigger game.


Plus its an ideal gift price point for parents too.

We have more than one KT player who is on the verge of taking that 500-750 point plunge. So much so that the playspace has actually added a second 40k evening to accommodate them.

And in a year or two I'd hope GW will relaunch Age of Sigmar Skirmish under a similar model - all they really need is AoS listings and armies being cleaned and updated to do it (40K got ahead because they didn't trash the armies and destroy the internal structure before the new edition )

 godardc wrote:
random enemy movements

That would be it. In the 3rd/4th edition Kill Team only one player got to have a Kill Team, the other was effectively relegated to Games Master of a horde of faceless nobodies. I kinda preferred that but I can see why a game in which everyone gets to play with their own badass Kill Team might be more popular.

Though I can see “new-to-GW” KT players migrating to 40K, I suspect quite a few of them will be soured by the experience. The KT rules are significantly better than 40K’s, as it provides a more interesting tactical decision-space on the battlefield.

 Gashrog wrote:

 godardc wrote:
random enemy movements

That would be it. In the 3rd/4th edition Kill Team only one player got to have a Kill Team, the other was effectively relegated to Games Master of a horde of faceless nobodies. I kinda preferred that but I can see why a game in which everyone gets to play with their own badass Kill Team might be more popular.

This is what I liked with it: it told a story, it was very narrative and asymetrical. And you needn't to buy anything: it was all in the main rulesbook IIRC. But now I get why KT is so popular today (I thing it is THE most popular game in my FLGS).

40k has no interest to me anymore. Since 6th edition it seems to have become Epic 40k but in 28mm that just looks silly on a 6x4 table. Kill Team feels a lot more like the 40k I used to know and love.

With the new commanders expansion you can run teams that were nearly the size of 2nd edition 40k armies lol.