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I, for one, was pretty underwhelmed by the Big FAQ 2. It pushed some things around, made an attempt to balance some overused stratagems, but overall the game is in much the same state as it was before, but with slightly less Slamguinius.

My prediction is that the upcoming Chapter Approved, which should be coming out November/December, will have a rash of point changes that will further upset the meta.

But what do people predict? Place your bets, make some wild speculation, or just wishlist, idc, do it here!

I personally foresee a price increase to many of the Imperial Knights, especially the Castellan and Helverins. I also foresee minor point decreases for Necron and Grey Knights.

I don't play them but some help for Grey Knights and Custodes(making it something more than codex jetbike) would be nice.

I'd prefer they take a crack at closing the gap between mono faction and soup but have accepted that they'll probably just crap on the units that soup is making egregious which will only have people slot in the currently next most broken unit.

It’s impossible to know if GW considers non-meta units to be balanced and just held down by how good the meta is, or if they will actually target over costed and under performing units.

They could buff GK, Tactical squads, Crisis suits, Thinos, etc. Or they could just as easily hit Castellans, Gallants, Ravagers, Daemon Princes, Riptides, etc. and leave the other stuff mostly unchanged.

GK and Necrons need crazy points reductions.

I expect Custodes Jet Bikes and Captain on a bike will get a points increase

I expect DE to get nerfed into the ground

I also expect more ham handed sweeping game changes that make entire units completely useless instead of addressing real issues with the game like morale, cover, dice modifiers, terrain etc.

I fully expect GW to continue proving that they don't have a single clue what they're doing.

I'm hoping that they'll do something drastic to address what a terrible spot Marines are in, but I won't be a bit surprised if vanilla marines get nerfed down to GK levels and GK get rendered completely unplayable and GW puts out some sort of unintentionally hilarious statement about the awsome changes they made to help basic Marines and GK compete in the current meta because they write rules like a spastic chimp with the self awareness of frog spawn.

I also expect this thread to wind up as 20+ pages of such utter bile directed at GW and 40k that any new player who comes here looking for advice and reads through it will come away convinced that they're much better off going back to WoW or LoL or whatever they were doing before the cool plastic mens caught their attention.

Be the change you want to see in the forum

The Newman wrote:
I fully expect GW to continue proving that they don't have a single clue what they're doing.

I'm hoping that they'll do something drastic to address what a terrible spot Marines are in, but I won't be a bit surprised if vanilla marines get nerfed down to GK levels and GK get rendered completely unplayable and GW puts out some sort of unintentionally hilarious statement about the awsome changes they made to help basic Marines and GK compete in the current meta because they write rules like a spastic chimp with the self awareness of frog spawn.

I also expect this thread to wind up as 20+ pages of such utter bile directed at GW and 40k that any new player who comes here looking for advice and reads through it will come away convinced that they're much better off going back to WoW or LoL or whatever they were doing before the cool plastic mens caught their attention.

I too expect more nerfs to marines.

Gman goes to 450 points.Calgar goes to 240. Orbital bombardment gets rewritten to also provide a 5+ FNP to the units it hits as another level of randomness to bypass. Drop pod goes down 5 points (still unplayable)

This is basically what I expect for marines.

Terminators/deathwing kinda need some help. I'd like to run a full deathwing army but terminators and the LR are not in the best place right now. Some points costs need to be shifted around or something. I never see anyone take that cool looking glaive. I like the idea of an elite army like that, but reducing points costs per model means a larger numerous army...which isn't what I really want. I'm not experienced enough at the game to really say what the best course is.

I would start a Deathwing army tomorrow if they made them fun and viable.

Realistically I expect the following:

1) 6 new missions with progressive scoring, very similar to the GH2 missions.
2) Point increases to Dissie cannons, Grotesque and Talons.
3) Point increases to bananas.
4) Infantry squads to 5 points and Artemia nerfed into FW realm.
5) Point increase or squad cap decrease to hive guards.
6) Point increase to Gallant. Point increase to Castellan OR nerf to Cawl's Wrath.
7) A huge load of small point reductions to all the stuff that doesn't get used.

I'm quite curious to see if this rumored gift to marines is really going to happen or not.

 Thargrim wrote:
Terminators/deathwing kinda need some help. I'd like to run a full deathwing army but terminators and the LR are not in the best place right now. Some points costs need to be shifted around or something. I never see anyone take that cool looking glaive. I like the idea of an elite army like that, but reducing points costs per model means a larger numerous army...which isn't what I really want. I'm not experienced enough at the game to really say what the best course is.

Yeah. To be competitive without any rules changes Marines need a 20%-25% cost reduction over the entire faction, and that's not what I think any marine player actually wants. On the other hand, to feel like they're actually worth 13 points the basic Marine profile needs to be vastly tougher than it actually is. Like, T5 and a 2+ 5+++ save levels of tougher. And possibly A2. And to justify the premium Space Marines pay over Guard for any given weapon system they would need the ability to ignore penalties to hit for moving built into the basic army-wide rules. And a significant number of their strategems are based on taking three of something that is hard to justify taking at all.

They're just in a bad place.

Spoletta wrote:
Realistically I expect the following:

1) 6 new missions with progressive scoring, very similar to the GH2 missions.
2) Point increases to Dissie cannons, Grotesque and Talons.
3) Point increases to bananas.
4) Infantry squads to 5 points and Artemia nerfed into FW realm.
5) Point increase or squad cap decrease to hive guards.
6) Point increase to Gallant. Point increase to Castellan OR nerf to Cawl's Wrath.
7) A huge load of small point reductions to all the stuff that doesn't get used.

I'm quite curious to see if this rumored gift to marines is really going to happen or not.

if the points increase Custodes that'll kill the army. custodes actually need some minor point decreases on most of their units, although yeah Jetbike CAPTAINS need to go up a bit

Forgive me, but what is Chapter Approved?

As a returning player from 2nd Edition, I am not familiar, I am assuming from reading these posts, it is some kind of revision rule book?

Or like a printed published FAQ?

It’s an annual rules update, with points changes, new missions and new rules content. It’s both GW’s way of changing up the meta and providing something new, and their way of extorting £15 a year from each player. ;-)

In all seriousness, we really enjoy the missions from last year’s, but I’ll never use the Land Raider design rules. Nor will I use the beta Sisters of Battle Codex in this year’s.

BUDFORCE wrote:
Forgive me, but what is Chapter Approved?

As a returning player from 2nd Edition, I am not familiar, I am assuming from reading these posts, it is some kind of revision rule book?

Or like a printed published FAQ?

Yep! It's a printed revision and addition rule book that comes out once a year. Similar to AoS's Generals Handbook.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
and their way of extorting £15 a year from each player. ;-)

haha yes, the cynic in me can't help but think this is one of the main reasons!

I assume then, the Chapter Approved 2018 would replace the 2017 version in terms of point value updates? Or would you need them both?

BUDFORCE wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
and their way of extorting £15 a year from each player. ;-)

haha yes, the cynic in me can't help but think this is one of the main reasons!

I assume then, the Chapter Approved 2018 would replace the 2017 version in terms of point value updates? Or would you need them both?

No-one knows. The Generals Handbook apparently reprints all points each year, whereas CA2017 only published changes. Hopefully they’ll adopt the former but until the book is out (or described on WHC) we won’t know.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

BUDFORCE wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
and their way of extorting £15 a year from each player. ;-)

haha yes, the cynic in me can't help but think this is one of the main reasons!

I assume then, the Chapter Approved 2018 would replace the 2017 version in terms of point value updates? Or would you need them both?

No-one knows. The Generals Handbook apparently reprints all points each year, whereas CA2017 only published changes. Hopefully they’ll adopt the former but until the book is out (or described on WHC) we won’t know.

Thanks for your replies man, really appreciate it, one last question before I stop derailing this thread (sorry all!) did CA2017 make any points changes to Grey Knights? I have built my Army from the codex, I am now worried that it's not going to be acurate points wise :(

EDIT: Nevermind I found out, terminators dropped from 46 to 41 points per model. Argh! Guess I need to paint up another model then, or maybe just wait until CA2018.

Anyway to give an on topic reply I guess GK could see some further points reduction.

Aye there’s a few (read: all) GK players hoping for that I’m sure!!!

There were also some increases on GK equipment that is common with other SM Chapters - Assault Cannons, Razorbacks and Stormravens, I think.

meleti wrote:
It’s impossible to know if GW considers non-meta units to be balanced and just held down by how good the meta is, or if they will actually target over costed and under performing units.

They could buff GK, Tactical squads, Crisis suits, Thinos, etc. Or they could just as easily hit Castellans, Gallants, Ravagers, Daemon Princes, Riptides, etc. and leave the other stuff mostly unchanged.

Two criterias for price hike:

a) unit is seen more than others whether it's because it's brokenly good or least sucky unit out of sucky units
b) model is resin.

Likely: Points increases to Grotesques and Talos
Smarter would be: Change/Nerf Prophets of Flesh Chapter Tactic.

Likely: Point increases to Gallant/Castellant
Smarter would be: Change/Nerf Ion Bulwark

Likely: Points increases to Shining Spears
Smarter would be: Re-work Ynnari

I'd like some changes to Marines, but at this points most people agree that the base marine is in a bad spot.

I would also like DKoK and R&H changes. (Not to mention the poor corsairs from FW)

I also would like for certain knights to get a price adjustment (cough Castellan cough)

A certain adress torwards Soup.

Necron warriors should get a tad cheaper.

Yes i know fairly optimistic.

Expected: point changes to stuff and things.
Expected: codex worth of unit entries for SoB experimental dex. (Really lets call this CASoB).

Dont care about anything else.

Space Wolves see everything go up in points because they didn't do enough to make us buy more wulfen and throw away our TWC.

Seriously though, TWC need a points decrease, advance and charge, or something that helps them self preserve. They're pretty okay as is, but they have no niche. WG bikers cost less per model, are quicker, and insane against horde. Wulfen knock the tar out of things in CC with hammers.

-

For an actual prediction: Stormwolf and Stormfang possibly going up in points. More specifically the Stormwolf since the Wulfen + Priest bomb is pretty much the nastiest thing we can put in it. halfyourarmy

Wolf Scouts finally becoming troops.

Bloodclaws getting a point decrease since they're absolutely terrible in comparison to Grey Hunters in any scenario.

Wulfen going down in price again, just maybe.

TWC HQs going down in price. They're very expensive for what they do. T5 and 7 wounds is not worth 20 points over a biker lord with one wound less, doing the same number of attacks and moving quicker. Maybe that's why they indexed our bike units, to force us into TWC in 9th.

Crisis Suits need about 10 or so points taking off them to really be playable.

Don't play Tau these days, but I'm still sad that one of their most iconic units is basically unplayable right now.

Points Increase
- Custodian Jetbikes
- Custodian Jetbike Captain
- Knight Castellan
- Grotesques
- Disintegrators
- Mortars

Points Decrease
- Allarus Terminators
- Forgeshrine
- Hopefully most of the FW stuff to make it playable again.
- Crisis Suits

As a pure Custodes player, I'll chip in with what I personally think would help Custodes to be a mono faction that doesn't rely on jet bikes.

Allarus Terminators:
Make them 4++ to begin rather than 5++
Make their grenade launcher D6 shots but -2AP
If these buffs aren't applied, then their cost should be reduced by 8-10pts.

Venerable Contemptor Dread:
2+ Armour Save
Affected by the custodians +1 to invulnerable in a mono detachment
The ability to take other weapon options that Relic Contemptor dreads can
If these buffs are applied, then a points will increase with weapon options. If not, then a reduction of 15pts is needed.

Custodian Wardens:
Reduce points cost by 4-5pts

Venerable Land Raider:
Needs the ability to be another land raider type than the standard one (FW ones not applicable)
Reduction of points depending on type chosen, but base venerable land raider should be at least 30pts cheaper.

All Custodes:
All spear/axe weapons are Assault 2. Helps alleviate Custodes crippling lack of fire power on troop models.
Sentinel blade will stay pistol 2, but should be 2D like spear weapons.
Cost reduction of the misericordia to 3pts

 Dr. Mills wrote:
As a pure Custodes player, I'll chip in with what I personally think would help Custodes to be a mono faction that doesn't rely on jet bikes.

Allarus Terminators:
Make them 4++ to begin rather than 5++
Make their grenade launcher D6 shots but -2AP
If these buffs aren't applied, then their cost should be reduced by 8-10pts.

Venerable Contemptor Dread:
2+ Armour Save
Affected by the custodians +1 to invulnerable in a mono detachment
The ability to take other weapon options that Relic Contemptor dreads can
If these buffs are applied, then a points will increase with weapon options. If not, then a reduction of 15pts is needed.

Custodian Wardens:
Reduce points cost by 4-5pts

Venerable Land Raider:
Needs the ability to be another land raider type than the standard one (FW ones not applicable)
Reduction of points depending on type chosen, but base venerable land raider should be at least 30pts cheaper.

All Custodes:
All spear/axe weapons are Assault 2. Helps alleviate Custodes crippling lack of fire power on troop models.
Sentinel blade will stay pistol 2, but should be 2D like spear weapons.
Cost reduction of the misericordia to 3pts

Main issue I have with Wardens is they really don't have a niche. I really struggle to find a use case for them, when alternatively I could take regular Custodian Guards and fill out Troop slots instead.

I think they need something unique to make them stand out (more than just access to axes).

One possibility is to have them be the dualist specialists of the army, and give them a parry ability - basically -1 to hit them in the Fight Phase.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
As a pure Custodes player, I'll chip in with what I personally think would help Custodes to be a mono faction that doesn't rely on jet bikes.

Allarus Terminators:
Make them 4++ to begin rather than 5++
Make their grenade launcher D6 shots but -2AP
If these buffs aren't applied, then their cost should be reduced by 8-10pts.

Venerable Contemptor Dread:
2+ Armour Save
Affected by the custodians +1 to invulnerable in a mono detachment
The ability to take other weapon options that Relic Contemptor dreads can
If these buffs are applied, then a points will increase with weapon options. If not, then a reduction of 15pts is needed.

Custodian Wardens:
Reduce points cost by 4-5pts

Venerable Land Raider:
Needs the ability to be another land raider type than the standard one (FW ones not applicable)
Reduction of points depending on type chosen, but base venerable land raider should be at least 30pts cheaper.

All Custodes:
All spear/axe weapons are Assault 2. Helps alleviate Custodes crippling lack of fire power on troop models.
Sentinel blade will stay pistol 2, but should be 2D like spear weapons.
Cost reduction of the misericordia to 3pts

Al of this changes are sensible and very needed, specially for the terminators that have literally no use compared with Jetbikes.