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2018/10/29 04:11:52
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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I've fallen in love with the daemon prince models, and I was thinking of doing an experiment of fielding an army in 40k with nothing but them to see how things turned out. Be'lakor would be my commander/HQ. With a mixture of flying and non-flying princes, as well as some using talons and others using blades, is there any chance that this could work in a game?
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2018/10/29 04:37:09
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Dakka Veteran
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Depending on your meta, probably not. You will run into issues with dealing with anyone prepared for a knight, but don't let that stop you playing with what you think is fun.
In terms of rules you can bring:
Belakor
3 x Daemon Prince of Chaos (Chaos Daemons)
3 x Daemon Prince (CSM)
3 x Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Death Guard)
3 x Daemon Prince of Tzeentch (Thousand Sons)
Use 3 x Supreme Command detachments. You will need to have one with the faction keyword TZEENTCH, another with NURGLE, and the last with DAEMONS.
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2018/10/29 05:49:52
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Daemon Princes are strong, but I don't think a whole DP army is strong. They suddenly all become targetable. and the 5++ / 4++ may not help them survive far.
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2018/10/29 08:33:11
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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You need some kind of screen to protect them from getting shot off the table.
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2018/10/29 09:06:07
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Dakka Veteran
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What are some things Daemon Princes would be afraid of fighting in close combat?
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In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! |
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2018/10/29 15:48:30
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Unless you Death Hex him, or smited him down to his last 2-3 wounds before charging in, Guilliman is a ban of the Daemon Princes of all kind in CC, in my experience, he can 1 VS 2 or even 1 VS 3 Daemon Princes and come out winning the combat pretty quick. SW Wulfens, should they have the right loadout andget the charge, would wreck a Daemon Prince no problem unless the DP rolls amazing in saving throws. IK may give DP hard time in combat due to their high toughness. Last but not the least for Imperial Factions, don't underestimate the humble IG, a Catachan Company Commander with the Straken and Priest nearby can give your DP 15 Str8 PF punchs in one battle round, which might caught you off guard.
I don't have in-depth experience with the Xeno CC ability but surely some high number of attacks unit may be a threat, such as the Genestealers, 80 attacks per phase from a unit of them would likely to bring down a DP.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/29 15:49:40
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2018/10/29 16:07:58
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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I second having some decent non-DP presence. Hordes of either Cultists or lesser Daemons (nurlgings are the best for this) would do. If your whole army is made of only Characters, you don't get any Character protection. Having some non-Character units will allow the DPs to "hide" and not get shot to pieces in the first turn. Also, if you plan on using Matched play, you'll need to use different DP datasheets (the CSM, TSons and DG codices all that different datasheets) as you can only use the some datasheet 3x. With at least 3 different DPs, you can have at least 9 + Belakor. Although you're unlikely to be able o fit this many in a 2K list and still take some chaff. -
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/29 16:08:28
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2018/10/29 18:46:50
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Galef wrote:
If your whole army is made of only Characters, you don't get any Character protection. Having some non-Character units will allow the DPs to "hide" and not get shot to pieces in the first turn.
That is actually not true. Only characters will less than 10 wounds are ignored. If you have characters with more than 10 wounds DPs will be protected.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/29 18:47:02
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2018/10/29 20:47:34
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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p5freak wrote: Galef wrote: If your whole army is made of only Characters, you don't get any Character protection. Having some non-Character units will allow the DPs to "hide" and not get shot to pieces in the first turn. That is actually not true. Only characters will less than 10 wounds are ignored. If you have characters with more than 10 wounds DPs will be protected.
Like Magnus or Morty? That would lead to either of them being sacrificed very quickly as everything could only shoot at them. But my comment was fully assuming all characters were >10 wounds, since Belakor and every DP is >10 wounds, which are specifically the units we were discussing. "So what I said was true...from a certain point of view." -
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/29 20:47:52
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2018/10/30 16:07:12
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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You can field 34 Daemon Princes quite legally. 3x Khorne (CSM), 3x Khorne (CD) 3x Nurgle (CSM), 3x Nurgle (CD) etc. etc. plus 3x DG 3x TS 1 Belakor 1 Mamon 1 Cor'bax 1 Uraka Warfiend
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 16:07:34
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2018/10/30 17:01:16
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Excited Doom Diver
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Excommunicatus wrote:You can field 34 Daemon Princes quite legally.
3x Khorne ( CSM)...
3x Nurgle ( CSM)...
This is debatable, at the least. Both the Khorne CSM and the Nurgle CSM princes are from the exact same datasheet - "Daemon Prince" in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. There is fair reason to think that taking 3 Khornate and 3 Nurglitch princes from the same datasheet is a breach of the Rule of Three.
I don't want to open that whole can of worms again, but it's been debated back and forth on YMDC for some time with no definitive answer, so stating that it's legal as a fait accompli (without at least caveating your comment) could lead to issues down the line for someone who treats it as straight unambiguous fact.
That being said, even with the Rule of 3, it is unambiguous that you can take 12 plus the special characters.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 17:02:10
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2018/10/31 02:14:42
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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Galef wrote:I second having some decent non- DP presence. Hordes of either Cultists or lesser Daemons (nurlgings are the best for this) would do.
If your whole army is made of only Characters, you don't get any Character protection. Having some non-Character units will allow the DPs to "hide" and not get shot to pieces in the first turn.
Also, if you plan on using Matched play, you'll need to use different DP datasheets (the CSM, TSons and DG codices all that different datasheets) as you can only use the some datasheet 3x. With at least 3 different DPs, you can have at least 9 + Belakor. Although you're unlikely to be able o fit this many in a 2K list and still take some chaff.
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I was thinking of using Bloodletters for chaff, and possibly a skull cannon for a bit of cover fire (though Princes do have the warp bolter).
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2018/10/31 06:24:07
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Thousand sone daemon princes of tzeench are probably the strongest among daemon princes.
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2018/10/31 09:28:09
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Excommunicatus wrote:You can field 34 Daemon Princes quite legally.
3x Khorne ( CSM), 3x Khorne (CD)
3x Nurgle ( CSM), 3x Nurgle (CD)
etc. etc. plus
3x DG
3x TS
1 Belakor
1 Mamon
1 Cor'bax
1 Uraka Warfiend
This is like saying you can run 3x <Ultramarines> Captains and 3x <White Scars> Captains.
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2018/10/31 09:49:34
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Galef wrote:
Like Magnus or Morty? That would lead to either of them being sacrificed very quickly as everything could only shoot at them.
But my comment was fully assuming all characters were >10 wounds, since Belakor and every DP is >10 wounds, which are specifically the units we were discussing.
"So what I said was true...from a certain point of view."
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Sorry, did Daemon Princes get a massive buff that I missed? The ones I play are 8 wounds (Daemon, CSM and Death guard codices). Belakor may have more I suppose but I do not recall him having a degradation table (which you usually get at 10+ wounds).
Any Greater Daemon or primarch that goes out in front to protect his lesser minions from the enemy has probably failed to grasp the basics of being an Evil Chaos Boss... Automatically Appended Next Post: koooaei wrote:Thousand sone daemon princes of tzeench are probably the strongest among daemon princes.
I don't have that codex. What do they get beyond a "standard" Daemon or CSM prince of Tzeentch?
Mark.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/31 09:51:52
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2018/10/31 11:44:09
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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2 Cast each Round, 2 Spells plus Smite, 18 Spells to Pick from, 4++ (3++ wl trait), +6 '' Cast range, no + 1 on Smite
But no Warpbolter!
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2018/10/31 21:01:30
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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Arachnofiend wrote: Excommunicatus wrote:You can field 34 Daemon Princes quite legally.
3x Khorne ( CSM), 3x Khorne (CD)
3x Nurgle ( CSM), 3x Nurgle (CD)
etc. etc. plus
3x DG
3x TS
1 Belakor
1 Mamon
1 Cor'bax
1 Uraka Warfiend
This is like saying you can run 3x <Ultramarines> Captains and 3x <White Scars> Captains.
You can.
It is indisputable fact for all the reasons I already outlined in YMDC. No point rehashing it here.
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2018/10/31 21:30:08
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Excited Doom Diver
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Excommunicatus wrote:Arachnofiend wrote: Excommunicatus wrote:You can field 34 Daemon Princes quite legally.
3x Khorne ( CSM), 3x Khorne (CD)
3x Nurgle ( CSM), 3x Nurgle (CD)
etc. etc. plus
3x DG
3x TS
1 Belakor
1 Mamon
1 Cor'bax
1 Uraka Warfiend
This is like saying you can run 3x <Ultramarines> Captains and 3x <White Scars> Captains.
You can.
It is indisputable fact for all the reasons I already outlined in YMDC. No point rehashing it here.
The fact that it is currently disputed means that it is, by definition, not indisputable. If you are going to claim something this contentious as fact, it is dishonest to not at least mention that there is some debate over the matter.
(For anyone who wants to know more about the debate, the most recent thread I could find was: here. It got closed because there was no real resolution and the arguments on both sides were going in circles.)
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/31 21:34:52
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2018/11/01 21:49:45
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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2018/11/02 00:13:46
Subject: Re:Daemon Prince army?
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Excited Doom Diver
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Agreed, which is why I have very deliberately not made any statements about what the rules actually say - only pointed out that what you claimed as "indisputable" was, in fact, under dispute. Rules questions belong in YMDC, so I have signposted anyone interested in the debate to the most recent thread.
You're trying to get a rise out of me. I'm not sure why.
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2018/11/02 00:40:59
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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p5freak wrote: Galef wrote:
If your whole army is made of only Characters, you don't get any Character protection. Having some non-Character units will allow the DPs to "hide" and not get shot to pieces in the first turn.
That is actually not true. Only characters will less than 10 wounds are ignored. If you have characters with more than 10 wounds DPs will be protected.
Character targeting rules were changed in the first big FAQ and became official.
Now you can only be protected by a unit that isn't another Character.
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2018/11/02 00:54:22
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Character of 9 or less wounds.
A character Knight, at 24 wounds, or a Greater Daemon, can protect them.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2018/11/02 06:49:09
Subject: Daemon Prince army?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Nightlord1987 wrote:
Character targeting rules were changed in the first big FAQ and became official.
Now you can only be protected by a unit that isn't another Character.
Wrong. You read the first big FAQ, why didnt you read the second big FAQ ??
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