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Guys

Since a while ago I was thinking of starting a force in the Lord of The Rings universe, but do not quite know where to start?
Fact is that I would like to start small, with a few figures which I can further expand.

Firstly (I know it could be a stupid question) but can you buy and use models/characters from both LoTR and The Hobbit in the same army? Is there a difference in rules/usage of both these types of movie-based forces?

Are the rules regarding the gameplay the same for both?

If for example I would like to start a 'Good' force is the "Fellowship of the Ring" a good idea and can I then expand it with humans, elves or dwarves?

To be honest I am a huge fan of this fantasy Universe and been watching and reading everything based on Tolkien's creation.

I will be really grateful on any sort of advice

Welcome to LotR!

First thing to note is that The Fellowship is a viable army in its own right, and will fill your points up to a fairly high level easily. It's a powerful force - IIRC, Harry Parkhill won a national tournament recently using just the Fellowship.

Secondly, yes, you can mix armies from different force lists. You need to be aware that there are army alliance rules in Matched (points) play.

1) Armies get a bonus for being a "pure" force from a single list.

2) If you ally armies, each contingent must meet the Warband rules - each warband must comprise a hero and a number of troops from a single army list.

3) There is an Alliance table in the armies books. So-called Historical Alliances allow all allied contingents to retain their bonus. The Fellowship is allied to the Rivendell, Lothlorien and Misty Mountains (Ents and Eagles) lists.

4) Allies of Convenience are "on the same side". Such armies lose their bonus, but suffer no other effect.

5) Impossible Allies lose their bonus, and troops are only affected by heroes from their own army list.

6) Generally speaking, good and evil lists don't mix.

It's not as complicated as it sounds, honestly! There are two other "official" modes of play though:

1) Open play allows you to play games with whatever you think is a suitable force - chuck your minis on the table and play is an official rule!

2) Narrative play is usually based around historical LotR scenarios, and will have a force list included in the scenario description. If it's part of a campaign, there may be rules for retaining minis from previous games.

The Hobbit forces tend to be more cinematic, and are made up of more powerful heroes and troops. They are still balanced with LotR armies - you pay more for the fancy stats!

Thank you so much for the reply.

I have so many army/warbands in mind that I cannot quite decide with which to go. The fact is that I always liked so many minis representing the iconic characters from both the franchises.

Ideally I would like to connect collecting with gaming but I know that is hard to do on any competitive level. That is probably why I would go for some fun lists or such. Of course I get that mixing Good and Evil is a no go

So I would probably go for something from LoTR armies and then expand with some Hobbit characters/units? Is that a right way to go?

The 'dark side' is also tempting as they also has so many cool characters across both the trilogies but I still like the Gandalf crews the most. The first and the second.

Question to the Middle-Earth players - is it a lot of fun to play? Is there a lot of fluff and characters influence in the game?

I have always played larger scale battles (WFB in previous edition) but now I am setting up a restart in the hobby with smaller scale (mostly due to family life/lack of free time). That's why I am looking at LoTR and Kill Team in WHK40

The Hobbit armies book isn't out yet, but you can collect in any order you like. If you're playing fun games at home, feel free to proxy Hobbit figures for LotR ones in the meantime

The game is a LOT of fun!

If you're pushed for time and space, another great way of playing is the Battle Companies rules. You play a campaign with a force of 6-12 troop and minor characters, and slowly improve them. There are rules for points-costing your experienced figures in the main game as well! Great opportunities for converting models as well.

I second the suggestion of starting with Battle Companies.

Thanks guys.

Christmas is up ahead so I guess wife will have to spend hard for my presents

But I agree, I will most likely start with a small force/team and then build on that. I have a plan to collect and paint some of the most iconic characters from both series so will definitely be mixing up in the future.

Tbh I like the idea of smaller scale or skirmish battles of course due to time and minis required as well.

I have to buy some paints first and unfortunately there are no ready sets for LoTR or Hobbit so will spend some time before I get to the point where I'll be able to paint whatever mini I get.

I really want to heavily point out here that "Matched Play" games are not always the norm - as in "let's build a competitive list and have a fight". Middle-earth gaming was designed as, and it's strength still is, in my opinion, scenario and Narrative play. If you're like to start with the Fellowship, why not build up some evil forces to fight them narratively? For example, the Fellowship fought through Moria, so that is a great army to collect, and there are plenty of scenarios where you could use all those models. I would then suggest Isengard / Uruk-Hai scouts, so you can game the Breaking of the Fellowship at Amon-Hen. Add terrain to suit.

The Citadel Paint App does now including Middle-earth models in it, if that helps

I would also like to say that Strategy Battle Game is the best game Games Workshop has ever released - thanks to Rick Priestley, Alessio Cavatore, Adam Troke, and Jay Clare (who is the current caretaker), and thanks to Games Workshop for keeping it in print for 17 years, along with a huge re-investment of support this year. It is also my favorite skirmish gaming system. No matter how badly I have lost, I have always had a great time playing it, and I can always pinpoint my own personal tactical mistakes.

 judgedoug wrote:
I really want to heavily point out here that "Matched Play" games are not always the norm - as in "let's build a competitive list and have a fight". Middle-earth gaming was designed as, and it's strength still is, in my opinion, scenario and Narrative play. If you're like to start with the Fellowship, why not build up some evil forces to fight them narratively? For example, the Fellowship fought through Moria, so that is a great army to collect, and there are plenty of scenarios where you could use all those models. I would then suggest Isengard / Uruk-Hai scouts, so you can game the Breaking of the Fellowship at Amon-Hen. Add terrain to suit.

The Citadel Paint App does now including Middle-earth models in it, if that helps

I would also like to say that Strategy Battle Game is the best game Games Workshop has ever released - thanks to Rick Priestley, Alessio Cavatore, Adam Troke, and Jay Clare (who is the current caretaker), and thanks to Games Workshop for keeping it in print for 17 years, along with a huge re-investment of support this year. It is also my favorite skirmish gaming system. No matter how badly I have lost, I have always had a great time playing it, and I can always pinpoint my own personal tactical mistakes.

Thank you for your opinion and tips.
I will defo start an army or a skirmish rather.
Reading through the replies it seems that the Fellowship is a good idea to start. I have not though on a 'counter' party so I will look into that. Would a Hobbit based force be a good idea? There were lots of fun armies in that series.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rules wise guys - is this a good idea to get the Middle-Earth Strategy Game Rulebook? I assume this has rules for both LoTR and Hobbit and both Good and Evil sides including all their special heroes etc. right?

Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game rulebook contains all the rules only.

Armies of The Lord of the Rings contains all of the profiles and armies for those that appear in The Lord of the Rings films, books, and appendices.

Armies of The Hobbit contains all of the profiles and armies for those that appear in The Hobbit films and book.

 judgedoug wrote:
Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game rulebook contains all the rules only.

Armies of The Lord of the Rings contains all of the profiles and armies for those that appear in The Lord of the Rings films, books, and appendices.

Armies of The Hobbit contains all of the profiles and armies for those that appear in The Hobbit films and book.

Thanks for explaining.
Bit of a rip off cause you really need all 3 of them books and you look at around 75-80 pounds just for that.

It's a different situation from 40k, really not comparable. For the price of a single 40k Codex plus cards, the LotR Armies book has nearly 300 minis profiles, and something like 27 army lists (and another dozen "historical" scenarios). Allies allows you to combine forces in dozens of different ways.

There are a number of viable builds for each army (or at least the main ones), with others meant to ally in (or give you hard choices about losing your army bonuses). Beyond the Warband rules, it's up to you - do you go elite-heavy, or lots of baseline troops, or look at monsters or speed/mobility options? There's a LOT of difference between 500 points and 1000 (the recommended range). The game is viable even with a small force of very tough heroes. As there's a range of scenarios, there's a range of ways to win - you are NOT going to table your opponent in a turn or two.

Even the core rules contain a lot of extras and advanced rules, such as the rules for sieges and warmachines.

Also, if you're in the UK, there are several places that sell at discount, to ease the burden. I know it's expensive, but you're getting a complete game and a ton of great content for your money.

 Momotaro wrote:
It's a different situation from 40k, really not comparable. For the price of a single 40k Codex plus cards, the LotR Armies book has nearly 300 minis profiles, and something like 27 army lists (and another dozen "historical" scenarios). Allies allows you to combine forces in dozens of different ways.

There are a number of viable builds for each army (or at least the main ones), with others meant to ally in (or give you hard choices about losing your army bonuses). Beyond the Warband rules, it's up to you - do you go elite-heavy, or lots of baseline troops, or look at monsters or speed/mobility options? There's a LOT of difference between 500 points and 1000 (the recommended range). The game is viable even with a small force of very tough heroes. As there's a range of scenarios, there's a range of ways to win - you are NOT going to table your opponent in a turn or two.

Even the core rules contain a lot of extras and advanced rules, such as the rules for sieges and warmachines.

Also, if you're in the UK, there are several places that sell at discount, to ease the burden. I know it's expensive, but you're getting a complete game and a ton of great content for your money.

Yep I live in London and actually been to my local GW store which isn't really big..and they hardly had any minis for Middle-Earth.
Saying that I would need to order everything online. Visited few (the cheapest stores in UK - ElementGaming and GoblinGaming) and both of them only have a very limited offer on Middle-Earth. Some LoTR stuff and NONE from The Hobbit. Which of course means I would have to order from Games Workshop direct with their expensive prices. But some might say that at least they got everything available.

 Blooddragon1981 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game rulebook contains all the rules only.

Armies of The Lord of the Rings contains all of the profiles and armies for those that appear in The Lord of the Rings films, books, and appendices.

Armies of The Hobbit contains all of the profiles and armies for those that appear in The Hobbit films and book.

Thanks for explaining.
Bit of a rip off cause you really need all 3 of them books and you look at around 75-80 pounds just for that.

Sure, I suppose, full-color giant hardcover books are pricey. All three books are massive, though. You'd need approximately a 700 page book if you wanted all of that in one go. It's also significantly cheaper than it used to be - the whole range overall has received a price decrease. Core rules are 20% cheaper, the Armies of the Lord of the Rings are roughly 50% cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blooddragon1981 wrote:
[Yep I live in London and actually been to my local GW store which isn't really big..and they hardly had any minis for Middle-Earth.
Saying that I would need to order everything online. Visited few (the cheapest stores in UK - ElementGaming and GoblinGaming) and both of them only have a very limited offer on Middle-Earth. Some LoTR stuff and NONE from The Hobbit. Which of course means I would have to order from Games Workshop direct with their expensive prices. But some might say that at least they got everything available.

There's only a few items that have been released to retail since the relaunch. A few months ago, there was nothing available in-store. Now, it's the starter set, books, about a dozen plastic sets. Next week a bunch of new character blisters go to retail as well.

The situation is that most of the range is in metal, and GW does not sell any metals at retail anymore; so these are direct only.

Find an online retailer who sells direct stuff at discount. Any store that has a trade account with GW gets at least 35% off direct-only items, so any smart ones offer at least a 15% discount to consumers.
The main site I order from in the USA does 30% off retail/trade items and 15% off direct-only items.

Depending on how much you like the official models, there are a couple of ways to get armies cheaply.

Official models. Element Games, Wayland Games, Dark Sphere usually offer stuff at 20% off. The core LotR plastics are core distribution items, so they have them. My own FLGS does them for 20% off - £20 for 24 minis is decent. If your FLGS is Leisure Games, they never offer discount - and to be fair, they have kept going for decades. A lot of the rest of the LotR line is direct only, so not much lock there.

The next way is to convert your command figures and elite units. There are a LOT of other historical plastics out there, and you can have fun playing around converting the minis. I converted my Mordor Black Guard by giving plastic Morannon Orcs some Roman shields, and I tend to do my captains, banner-bearers (paper banners) and other stuff (whips, drums) that way. Several historical sprues - command sprues especially - carry horns. Cloaks can be added using tissue or cigarette paper stiffened with PVA glue, Hasslefree even sells metal helmet wings! Add in a different paint scheme and you're good to go.

Second City Games on eBay UK sells cheap individual sprues. Little Big Men Studios sells amazing shield transfers sized to different historical lines, and also banners (including fantasy - look for Oathmark).

This is a great way to stick with the official figures, but lets you go to town with your own creativity.

The second way is to proxy. Historical minis are great for the human forces - there's everything out there from Gauls and Vikings to Arabs and Byzantines. I did a whole Gondor army plus Fiefdoms support using the Conquest Games Norman plastics.

Tons of fantasy models out there too. An especial shout out to the plastic Oathmark range - their dwarfs are ok, but their goblins are really good. I kind of like the plastic Mantic orcs too - others don't though (and avoid their goblins, that was... not a good set of models). Older metal ranges include Scotia Grendel, who carry the old Harlequin LotR range in their fantasy line. Old Grenadier orcs and half-orcs (Carried by Mirliton in Italy and eM-4 in the UK) are nice models too.

The older LotR ranges - Citadel from the 80s and Heritage from the 70s are lovely and characterful, but showing their age now.

There's also a lovely range by Mithril in Ireland, but they sell them as collectables - they can be VERY expensive, but are lovely figures. Look out for their sales.

Unreleased Minis in Poland do nice figures, but are barely less expensive than the models they are meant to stand in for.

I will definitely be browsing through eBay as I have seen tons of LoTR and Hobbit minis there. Of course there are loads of unused, still originally boxed ones but those usually cost too much. I will be looking for used, but unpainted and sometimes even un-assembled as I do like to do that myself, with green stuff filling, priming, basing etc.
Online as you say you can get some sets 20% cheaper than GW store but still too limited offer for me.
GW is doing a re-release of some minis I heared and also the new Rule Book came out of course. Has that affected the prices in any ways guys? Most likely yes but I cannot tell as I am just combing back to the hobby after years or absence.

Converting? Yes, I always liked converting but for the start I would rather have some original minis etc. Besides for me personally it would not only be for gaming purpose but also collecting and display.

The only other thing I can suggest is car boot sales. The movies were HUGE back in the early 00s, and GW had the minis in a magazine in newsagents across the world. I've lost count of the number of *ahem* "normal" people who turn out to have been into it 20 years ago when I mention I play the game.

One guy had bought a pack of metal figures for himself, for every pack he bought his son to play with, and was sitting on a goldmine of unopened blisters!

Happy hunting!

Would the new boxed set 'Battle of Pelennor Fields' be a good idea to start collecting Middle-Earth?
For approx 70 pounds (online) you get two big armies, rules and other goodies for beginners. Then it is possible to expand both Good and Evil forces imo.
Christmas is just ahead so an ideal gift idea as well

The new boxed set is an absolutely terrific steal. Tons of miniatures and a good mix of infantry, cavalry and monsters - a fell beast and troll in the same box!?

I think you should get it even if you don't end up goign with one of the included armies. They can make allies down the line at the least. You won't regret it.

I was really thinking of getting the new boxed set. As a lot of you guys mention it is a bargain, especially for the beginners but..I do not really want to start with big armies, at least for now.

That is why I decided to go with some smaller sets and ordered the Fellowship of the Ring, Thorin's Company and added Tauriel with Legolas and Gandalf the White as extras.

Would this be enough to get me started in some smaller size battles or skirmishes?
I do realize that in time I would have to expand it and decide to go for one of the good side armies.
For a fact I was already thinking of some elves but that is for later.

Evil side armies do look tasty as well if I might be honest.
Are you guys collecting both sides of the conflict? The Evil side has some pretty cool characters and heroes as well as the Good.

You can have a 600 pt army with Gandalf the Gray, Aragorn as Strider, Legolas and Gimli.

 Crazyterran wrote:
You can have a 600 pt army with Gandalf the Gray, Aragorn as Strider, Legolas and Gimli.

That's great. I hope with even mixing up characters and not adding a lot of 'ordinary' troops you can still have games vs other armies. Or as some of you guys mentioned just skirmish battles and maybe some storyline games.

 Blooddragon1981 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
You can have a 600 pt army with Gandalf the Gray, Aragorn as Strider, Legolas and Gimli.

That's great. I hope with even mixing up characters and not adding a lot of 'ordinary' troops you can still have games vs other armies. Or as some of you guys mentioned just skirmish battles and maybe some storyline games.

Following on from this one way of making your "ordinary troops" more efficient is to try and make sure you grab a basic box that covers all of your bases; you wouldn't want to try and start Isengard if you're trying to do a quick budget army since the pike-line box doesn't have your ranged troops and don't serve as dismounts if you want the cavalry, whereas if you wanted to play Lothlorien the Galadhrim box gives you a full range of loadouts (spear, elf bastard sword, bow) and serve as dismounts if you want to get Galadhrim Knights.

And/or play the Grey Company where your 24-man infantry box of Rangers is composed of 30pt heroes.

Okay to borrow the thread? There's LOTR gaming starting up and in real hurry schedule so I need something painted FAST. Well army of the dead sounds like easy one to paint! Soooo. Just one problem. As I understand each hero allows fielding X number of warriors in upgraded rules. That sounds like it limits # of mooks right? Dead have just king of the dead as character though...

Do warriors of the dead have some way to get around or have I misunderstood something?

If you look in the Armies of Middle Earth book, the King of the Dead has a special rule that turns Warriors of the Dead into Captains for deployment. So you just need him, and then as many Dead warriors/riders as you need. I think?

Ok good to know. I don't have the book yet as I only found out about the league like hour ago and unsurprisingly all the stores are close by now (near 11pm here). I'll get it and battle of pelennor's field on monday. But good to know it's legal.

Only problem is getting that king's of the dead model is going to take a long time unless somebody from local has spare on sale...

As long as no one minds you proxying until it comes back in stock. But yes, you can "count" warriors as captains for deployment.

Also, Aragorn.

Oh right it's OOP at GW. Ordered one from ebay right a way. Need to notify local store to cancel that one. They still will get Pelenor's field box, rules and Aragorn.

Games starts initially 400 pts matched plays. Looks like King of the dead and 18 warriors(6 with spear and shield, 1 with banner and rest with sword and shield) will add up to 400 to the dot.

Bit one dimensional but eventually seems points go up and I presume I can ally with something like Rohan or Minas Tirith later. Would make sense with Pelenor's field battle and all. And above all give me playable force FAST. Can expand to other forces later ;-)

tneva82 wrote:
Oh right it's OOP at GW. Ordered one from ebay right a way. Need to notify local store to cancel that one. They still will get Pelenor's field box, rules and Aragorn.

Games starts initially 400 pts matched plays. Looks like King of the dead and 18 warriors(6 with spear and shield, 1 with banner and rest with sword and shield) will add up to 400 to the dot.

Bit one dimensional but eventually seems points go up and I presume I can ally with something like Rohan or Minas Tirith later. Would make sense with Pelenor's field battle and all. And above all give me playable force FAST. Can expand to other forces later ;-)

A thing to note with the Dead: They're automatically red allies with everyone (no army bonus and no cross-faction hero abilities) if your army doesn't include Aragorn, so you may want to make getting him a priority. And one of the army bonuses is Harbinger of Evil (-1 Courage aura) on the King, which is really incredibly useful for your bad matchups (Good high-Courage armies).

Yeah that I noticed from the road to dimholt article series from warhammer community. Largely was inspiring to this army! I have the black gate Aragorn ordered already so that sorts that one. Would like more ranger-y version but I'll see if somebody from here could sell one before resorting to ebay. Postages are murder!

Alas seems Battle of Pelennor's field are pretty much out of stock here so can't pick up on monday anything after all. Grrr! Spent last night finding somewhere and ended up getting from store in Helsinki as that was only store in Finland that had them in stock(making it possible I get the order next week. If not I come back to home 1.1.2019 due to christmast&new year holiday!).

Could have sworn FLGS had box but either I misremember or somebody picked it up already. Wish the upcoming gaming had been informed week earlier! Last sunday I was in the store I ordered so could have picked it up then! ARGH!