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I think the new lore paint Guilliman as a shell of what he used to be. He never believed in perfection, always had contingencies even for the Imperium failing but when he came out of his stasis, he seemed crushed saying it would be better if he was put back in, as well as his treatment by the Emperor. I wonder how the rest of the Primarchs will be after 10,000 years of war and the fact that the Imperium is a superstitious oligarchy. I think the Dorn, the Lion and Corax will be especially crushed. Vulken would be but he already knows of the fate of the Imperium. Who else to you see coming back as a different person and who will be the same?

The Imperium is a theocracy more than an oligarchy. If any of the primarchs come back they'll be different than before they left. Would be pretty boring if they weren't changed.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I think the new lore paint Guilliman as a shell of what he used to be. He never believed in perfection, always had contingencies even for the Imperium failing but when he came out of his stasis, he seemed crushed saying it would be better if he was put back in, as well as his treatment by the Emperor. I wonder how the rest of the Primarchs will be after 10,000 years of war and the fact that the Imperium is a superstitious oligarchy. I think the Dorn, the Lion and Corax will be especially crushed. Vulken would be but he already knows of the fate of the Imperium. Who else to you see coming back as a different person and who will be the same?

As far as we know, none of the primarchs experienced 10,000 years of war. They got a most a couple centuries of conflict, followed by the great betrayal, and then some of them were around briefly for the cleanup and others got 'lost' pretty quickly.
If Dorn shows up, I'd expect him to be pretty marked by his maiming.
With the Lion, he already saw the worst, as his stupid decisions fractured his Legion and his best friend turned on him. He's likely going to be paranoid and looking for someone else to blame (if his characterization from the HH novels remains consistent). Which will probably be Guilliman, given the stuff that went on already in Unremembered Empire.

Most of the rest are such non-entities that it's hard to say, but I'm not sure that many will much care about the Imperial Truth vs Imperial Reality. They were there to war, and not much else.

Except Russ, but they will likely just plop a cartoonish viking hat on him and call it a day.

I think that what's so crushing for the Primarchs isn't the fact that the Imperium is a brutal dictatorship with a powerful personality cult surrounding the Emperor (and by extension his Primarchs). That was already the case in 30K. The only major difference is that people call the Emperor a God, instead of just acting like if he was one. What's the most crushing is the fact that their victories were almost pointless. Humanity is again on the brink of destruction and enslavement by cruel outside forces. The war didn't end. Humanity didn't triumph. What they strived to build was either destroyed or was never built in the first place. Finally, many might feel they are responsible for that state of affair. They were the leaders during the Horus Heresy. It was their brothers. They should have known it would happen. Mortarion always was creepy and cruel, Kurze always was violent and insane, Magnus was always to curious for his own good, Fulgrim always was a self-centered person, Horus always was power and fame hungry, Angron always was bloodthirsty and angry, the Emperor always was autocratic and a dreamer. I wouldn't expect any loyalist Primarch to return without major changes. I would expect the Lion to be almost rebellious, blamming others and wanting to take charge of everything and Corax to turn into some sort of flagellant over his numerous weaknesses maybe even fall to Chaos because of it. I would expect Dorn to take rather nicely to the Imperium. He did have a dark streek with his penchant for masochism. The idea of expunging his failling by fighting a nearly hopeless battle against a personification of all evil would probably please him. He might also be the first Primarch to actually convert to the Imperial Creed because of that. Vulkan would probably be withdrawn and obstinate himself into some sort of martyr-like good guy whose not ready to concede anything to the current situation.

I took Gulliman as dented not broken or else he wouldn't even be trying to slowly reform the IOM while also being very aware that to much to soon would cause a second large scale civil war. I think the one thing that really is weighing on him is how alone he is as the last loyal son. One of my favorite parts of Dark Imperium was the moment when he was by himself and wanted so badly just to have a conversation with one of his brothers. It was a powerful moment that a immortal demi god wanted something as human as a chat to blow off steam.

I don't think any of the primarchs are going to react well. Vulkan might handle it the best since he has now been retconned into being the last one to vanish. He's gotten a preview of what the IOM was already becoming. I think Russ would likely be the most hurt. Fenris is gone and most of it's people are dead. His legacy won't be his people fighting on but generic vat grown primaris marines. I'd imagine that would be a gut punch.

Voss wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
I think the new lore paint Guilliman as a shell of what he used to be. He never believed in perfection, always had contingencies even for the Imperium failing but when he came out of his stasis, he seemed crushed saying it would be better if he was put back in, as well as his treatment by the Emperor. I wonder how the rest of the Primarchs will be after 10,000 years of war and the fact that the Imperium is a superstitious oligarchy. I think the Dorn, the Lion and Corax will be especially crushed. Vulken would be but he already knows of the fate of the Imperium. Who else to you see coming back as a different person and who will be the same?

As far as we know, none of the primarchs experienced 10,000 years of war. They got a most a couple centuries of conflict, followed by the great betrayal, and then some of them were around briefly for the cleanup and others got 'lost' pretty quickly.
If Dorn shows up, I'd expect him to be pretty marked by his maiming.
With the Lion, he already saw the worst, as his stupid decisions fractured his Legion and his best friend turned on him. He's likely going to be paranoid and looking for someone else to blame (if his characterization from the HH novels remains consistent). Which will probably be Guilliman, given the stuff that went on already in Unremembered Empire.

Most of the rest are such non-entities that it's hard to say, but I'm not sure that many will much care about the Imperial Truth vs Imperial Reality. They were there to war, and not much else.

Except Russ, but they will likely just plop a cartoonish viking hat on him and call it a day.

Most of them have apart from the Lion and Guilliman. We know that Vulken the Khan and Russ have most likely been at war ever since, Dorn and Corax who knows.

As for being used for war and not much else couldn't be farther from the truth, only Angron lived like that, even Kruze at least wanted to be more than a savage killer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

epronovost wrote:
I think that what's so crushing for the Primarchs isn't the fact that the Imperium is a brutal dictatorship with a powerful personality cult surrounding the Emperor (and by extension his Primarchs). That was already the case in 30K. The only major difference is that people call the Emperor a God, instead of just acting like if he was one. What's the most crushing is the fact that their victories were almost pointless. Humanity is again on the brink of destruction and enslavement by cruel outside forces. The war didn't end. Humanity didn't triumph. What they strived to build was either destroyed or was never built in the first place. Finally, many might feel they are responsible for that state of affair. They were the leaders during the Horus Heresy. It was their brothers. They should have known it would happen. Mortarion always was creepy and cruel, Kurze always was violent and insane, Magnus was always to curious for his own good, Fulgrim always was a self-centered person, Horus always was power and fame hungry, Angron always was bloodthirsty and angry, the Emperor always was autocratic and a dreamer. I wouldn't expect any loyalist Primarch to return without major changes. I would expect the Lion to be almost rebellious, blamming others and wanting to take charge of everything and Corax to turn into some sort of flagellant over his numerous weaknesses maybe even fall to Chaos because of it. I would expect Dorn to take rather nicely to the Imperium. He did have a dark streek with his penchant for masochism. The idea of expunging his failling by fighting a nearly hopeless battle against a personification of all evil would probably please him. He might also be the first Primarch to actually convert to the Imperial Creed because of that. Vulkan would probably be withdrawn and obstinate himself into some sort of martyr-like good guy whose not ready to concede anything to the current situation.

Nah the great crusade was ruined after the Heresy, during the great scouring the Imperium was still pretty much at its zenith, especially in terms of hope, they got rid of the traitors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I took Gulliman as dented not broken or else he wouldn't even be trying to slowly reform the IOM while also being very aware that to much to soon would cause a second large scale civil war. I think the one thing that really is weighing on him is how alone he is as the last loyal son. One of my favorite parts of Dark Imperium was the moment when he was by himself and wanted so badly just to have a conversation with one of his brothers. It was a powerful moment that a immortal demi god wanted something as human as a chat to blow off steam.

I don't think any of the primarchs are going to react well. Vulkan might handle it the best since he has now been retconned into being the last one to vanish. He's gotten a preview of what the IOM was already becoming. I think Russ would likely be the most hurt. Fenris is gone and most of it's people are dead. His legacy won't be his people fighting on but generic vat grown primaris marines. I'd imagine that would be a gut punch.

I think he's doing that just because its in his nature, but I saw him as broken when I read all the new lore. He still just has his sense of duty, I think that's all he has left.

Most of them have apart from the Lion and Guilliman. We know that Vulken the Khan and Russ have most likely been at war ever since, Dorn and Corax who knows.

How do we know this? There are wacky rumors and legends about the lost primarchs, but as far as I know, absolutely zero facts.

As for being used for war and not much else couldn't be farther from the truth, only Angron lived like that, even Kruze at least wanted to be more than a savage killer

What do you mean? They were found and pushed into the Crusade and then the Heresy, they didn't last long after that.

They might have been designed for other purposes in addition to war, but they never got to experience more.

Voss wrote:

Most of them have apart from the Lion and Guilliman. We know that Vulken the Khan and Russ have most likely been at war ever since, Dorn and Corax who knows.

How do we know this? There are wacky rumors and legends about the lost primarchs, but as far as I know, absolutely zero facts.

As for being used for war and not much else couldn't be farther from the truth, only Angron lived like that, even Kruze at least wanted to be more than a savage killer

What do you mean? They were found and pushed into the Crusade and then the Heresy, they didn't last long after that.

They might have been designed for other purposes in addition to war, but they never got to experience more.

Because they set out for war, Russ went to the eye to wage war and the Khan went to the Webway, that's all the info that we have so we don't know for certain but I'll go with that until we get more lore.

Yes they did, even Russ was a great philosopher in his own way and and a full time alcoholic lol, Guilliman was interested in everything, literature, philosophy, music. Fulgrim was an artist, Ferrus was a blacksmith ect. Lorgar was anything but a warrior or general, Magnus only cared for learning. Many of them had desires other than war after the GC was over. The Emperor made them for a purpose but they had free will, Lorgar is the best example to show that.

They had other desires, yes. But the were in the Crusade until the Heresy happened. What their desires were doesn't matter- they never had a chance to pursue them seriously. They could dabble in whatever hobbies they were designed for in their limited spare time, but what they did was war.


As for free will... very much debateable. It might even be the very thing the Emperor sacrificed to make them. Either directly to the chaos gods, or subsumed to his will in his own plots. It's quit notable that the only ones that broke from their intended roles were the ones that went over to chaos. The loyalists only really started thinking about it after everything fell apart and Secundus became a looming necessity.

There is an irony here. Lorgar, Kurze, and Angron would all be much happier in the 40k Imperium than they were in the 30k Imperium that drove them to rebellion. Especially Lorgar. His realization of the irony is noted in the 30k novels.

Voss wrote:
They had other desires, yes. But the were in the Crusade until the Heresy happened. What their desires were doesn't matter- they never had a chance to pursue them seriously. They could dabble in whatever hobbies they were designed for in their limited spare time, but what they did was war.


As for free will... very much debateable. It might even be the very thing the Emperor sacrificed to make them. Either directly to the chaos gods, or subsumed to his will in his own plots. It's quit notable that the only ones that broke from their intended roles were the ones that went over to chaos. The loyalists only really started thinking about it after everything fell apart and Secundus became a looming necessity.

They do matter if you are suggesting that they are only made for war or they are not able to be anything but generals and warriors, which is what you are suggesting. So what if they didn't have the time to achieve those goals, they perused them nonetheless, if they were only made for war than why would they peruse art, literature, philosophy, music etc.

Saying that them having free will is debatable is ridiculous, 2 were lost, 9 were loyalist and 9 were traitors. What is their destiny, either the Emperor made them completely and Chaos had nothing to do with it and if they don't have free will why did 11 end up destroyed or traitorous. If Chaos had more of a grasp upon them then why did 9 stay loyal if they had no free will?

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Voss wrote:
They had other desires, yes. But the were in the Crusade until the Heresy happened. What their desires were doesn't matter- they never had a chance to pursue them seriously. They could dabble in whatever hobbies they were designed for in their limited spare time, but what they did was war.


As for free will... very much debateable. It might even be the very thing the Emperor sacrificed to make them. Either directly to the chaos gods, or subsumed to his will in his own plots. It's quite notable that the only ones that broke from their intended roles were the ones that went over to chaos. The loyalists only really started thinking about it after everything fell apart and Secundus became a looming necessity.

They do matter if you are suggesting that they are only made for war or they are not able to be anything but generals and warriors, which is what you are suggesting. So what if they didn't have the time to achieve those goals, they perused them nonetheless, if they were only made for war than why would they peruse art, literature, philosophy, music etc.

Because they wanted to be real boys, and the smart ones (which was a sadly small percentage) realized that if the crusade ended, they'd have to shift their focus to other areas. The REALLY smart ones realized ahead of time what those roles would be, so studied accordingly.

The 'so what?' I'm just baffled by. The loss of potential can be tragic when someone dies early, but dying early does mean their desires are lost as well as that potential. For the primarchs, they died or were lost as warriors.
Ferrus Manus might have been a great dancer in Space Las Vegas, but he got his head chopped off. Roboute could have dictated a 'Codex Statecraftia' that would have revolutionized Imperial Bureaucracy, but he got his throat slit and stuck in stasis. Magnus could have made sorcery safe for everyone. What they could have been was squashed by how things turned out. Definitionally it doesn't matter, because it never happened..

Saying that them having free will is debatable is ridiculous, 2 were lost, 9 were loyalist and 9 were traitors. What is their destiny, either the Emperor made them completely and Chaos had nothing to do with it and if they don't have free will why did 11 end up destroyed or traitorous. If Chaos had more of a grasp upon them then why did 9 stay loyal if they had no free will?

Because they had no free will in staying loyal? The emperor's programming/conditioning kept them so. [Free will is a weird thing with writing, because the 9 vs 9 was simply how the authors wrote it. And sometimes a lack of free will is indistinguishable from bad writing]

If he needed the chaos powers help to make them (which is very much implied at various points), breaking two, and keeping half the remainder in exchange for the other half is very much a workable bargain if it works with his plans.
Roboute finally finding out that the Emperor was an indifferent monster using the Primarchs as tools all along is very much in keeping with this. As was his glee that one of his tools came back. Keep in mind that when he woke up, a thousands and one things were falling apart, his realm is being invaded and everything is wrong. Yet somehow going to see the wizard takes precedence....

It's also in keeping with Horus' turn as written in the HH novels, which was basically 'I know you're trying to trick me, but whatever, I'm gonna do it anyway.' His lack of motivation reads to me as a lack of free will. He was stuck being the focal point for chaos, regardless of his decisions (and complete lack of motivation as written), so he simply... accepted that.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
There is an irony here. Lorgar, Kurze, and Angron would all be much happier in the 40k Imperium than they were in the 30k Imperium that drove them to rebellion. Especially Lorgar. His realization of the irony is noted in the 30k novels.

In black legion upon finding out for the first time about the ecclesiarchy the legionnaires all laugh their asses of and one mentions: "The word bearers bloody won." Yuup pre fall word bearers got exactly the imperium they wanted.

I’m still surprised by how badly everyone considers Horus’ fall to be written. He was teased by visions from the Chaos gods about how he’d be left behind and ignored by his father (which on its own he would laugh at). But they waited until he was struck low by the Chaos Blade, was feverish, and they attacked his body first, got to his mind and his emotions while he was roiling with fever and close to death. They didn’t try to turn him when was strong, they tricked him when he was at his weakest. I’m amazed by the amount of times I’ve seen on here that “Horus’ fall was terribly written”; yet it made perfect sense. It wasn’t the deepest thing ever written, but it was completely logical and written so the average reader would appreciate it.

The armchair authors on here should go write their own NYT best sellers, if they think they can do better.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m still surprised by how badly everyone considers Horus’ fall to be written. He was teased by visions from the Chaos gods about how he’d be left behind and ignored by his father (which on its own he would laugh at). But they waited until he was struck low by the Chaos Blade, was feverish, and they attacked his body first, got to his mind and his emotions while he was roiling with fever and close to death. They didn’t try to turn him when was strong, they tricked him when he was at his weakest. I’m amazed by the amount of times I’ve seen on here that “Horus’ fall was terribly written”; yet it made perfect sense. It wasn’t the deepest thing ever written, but it was completely logical and written so the average reader would appreciate it.

The armchair authors on here should go write their own NYT best sellers, if they think they can do better.

I always thought that the chaos blade that stabbed him corrupted him and the visions and such just pushed him over the edge. The straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

Voss wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Voss wrote:
They had other desires, yes. But the were in the Crusade until the Heresy happened. What their desires were doesn't matter- they never had a chance to pursue them seriously. They could dabble in whatever hobbies they were designed for in their limited spare time, but what they did was war.


As for free will... very much debateable. It might even be the very thing the Emperor sacrificed to make them. Either directly to the chaos gods, or subsumed to his will in his own plots. It's quite notable that the only ones that broke from their intended roles were the ones that went over to chaos. The loyalists only really started thinking about it after everything fell apart and Secundus became a looming necessity.

They do matter if you are suggesting that they are only made for war or they are not able to be anything but generals and warriors, which is what you are suggesting. So what if they didn't have the time to achieve those goals, they perused them nonetheless, if they were only made for war than why would they peruse art, literature, philosophy, music etc.

Because they wanted to be real boys, and the smart ones (which was a sadly small percentage) realized that if the crusade ended, they'd have to shift their focus to other areas. The REALLY smart ones realized ahead of time what those roles would be, so studied accordingly.

The 'so what?' I'm just baffled by. The loss of potential can be tragic when someone dies early, but dying early does mean their desires are lost as well as that potential. For the primarchs, they died or were lost as warriors.
Ferrus Manus might have been a great dancer in Space Las Vegas, but he got his head chopped off. Roboute could have dictated a 'Codex Statecraftia' that would have revolutionized Imperial Bureaucracy, but he got his throat slit and stuck in stasis. Magnus could have made sorcery safe for everyone. What they could have been was squashed by how things turned out. Definitionally it doesn't matter, because it never happened..

Saying that them having free will is debatable is ridiculous, 2 were lost, 9 were loyalist and 9 were traitors. What is their destiny, either the Emperor made them completely and Chaos had nothing to do with it and if they don't have free will why did 11 end up destroyed or traitorous. If Chaos had more of a grasp upon them then why did 9 stay loyal if they had no free will?

Because they had no free will in staying loyal? The emperor's programming/conditioning kept them so. [Free will is a weird thing with writing, because the 9 vs 9 was simply how the authors wrote it. And sometimes a lack of free will is indistinguishable from bad writing]

If he needed the chaos powers help to make them (which is very much implied at various points), breaking two, and keeping half the remainder in exchange for the other half is very much a workable bargain if it works with his plans.
Roboute finally finding out that the Emperor was an indifferent monster using the Primarchs as tools all along is very much in keeping with this. As was his glee that one of his tools came back. Keep in mind that when he woke up, a thousands and one things were falling apart, his realm is being invaded and everything is wrong. Yet somehow going to see the wizard takes precedence....

It's also in keeping with Horus' turn as written in the HH novels, which was basically 'I know you're trying to trick me, but whatever, I'm gonna do it anyway.' His lack of motivation reads to me as a lack of free will. He was stuck being the focal point for chaos, regardless of his decisions (and complete lack of motivation as written), so he simply... accepted that.

The Emperor comparing them to pinocchio was just a metaphor it wasn't literal. You are just flat out wrong. Vulken wanted nothing more than to go back to his home after the GC, to try and say that they are built for nothing but war is just nonsense.

As for them staying loyal because the Emperors programming and conditioning, come on. Horus was extremely loyal so no thats not the case. The deal the Emperor made with chaos was not for half the Primarchs it was for all, in return he had to tell mankind about the gods which he didn't do so the gods scattered the legion, so that they could be brought up away from the Emperor and had more of a chance to turn them.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m still surprised by how badly everyone considers Horus’ fall to be written. He was teased by visions from the Chaos gods about how he’d be left behind and ignored by his father (which on its own he would laugh at). But they waited until he was struck low by the Chaos Blade, was feverish, and they attacked his body first, got to his mind and his emotions while he was roiling with fever and close to death. They didn’t try to turn him when was strong, they tricked him when he was at his weakest. I’m amazed by the amount of times I’ve seen on here that “Horus’ fall was terribly written”; yet it made perfect sense. It wasn’t the deepest thing ever written, but it was completely logical and written so the average reader would appreciate it.

The armchair authors on here should go write their own NYT best sellers, if they think they can do better.

It is a horrible fall because it happens in just a couple paragraphs and paints the character as a weak buffoon whose ideals are so weakly held that they can be pried from him in the course of one bad drug trip. It's unrealistic, jarring, and thematically godawful considering that Horus' fall to Chaos should have been the midpoint in the Horus Heresy book series, not the start. Horus falling right at the start of the series when we barely know who he even is would be akin to Oedipus consulting with the shepherd and the revelation of his birth occurring at the very start of the play. It doesn't work as the fall itself is what is supposed to be climax of the tragedy, with the battle on terra merely the result of the chief climax of the Horus Heresy- Horus' fall itself. And of course what this results in is most of the Horus Heresy consisting of worthless bolter porn fodder that does nothing but act as padding for a mostly empty tale.

Furthermore being an NYT best seller is worthless as a judgement of literary quality. It doesn't even represent a reader count, the number is just drawn from what bookstores order copies of.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m still surprised by how badly everyone considers Horus’ fall to be written. He was teased by visions from the Chaos gods about how he’d be left behind and ignored by his father (which on its own he would laugh at). But they waited until he was struck low by the Chaos Blade, was feverish, and they attacked his body first, got to his mind and his emotions while he was roiling with fever and close to death. They didn’t try to turn him when was strong, they tricked him when he was at his weakest. I’m amazed by the amount of times I’ve seen on here that “Horus’ fall was terribly written”; yet it made perfect sense. It wasn’t the deepest thing ever written, but it was completely logical and written so the average reader would appreciate it.

The armchair authors on here should go write their own NYT best sellers, if they think they can do better.

It is a horrible fall because it happens in just a couple paragraphs and paints the character as a weak buffoon whose ideals are so weakly held that they can be pried from him in the course of one bad drug trip. It's unrealistic, jarring, and thematically godawful considering that Horus' fall to Chaos should have been the midpoint in the Horus Heresy book series, not the start. Horus falling right at the start of the series when we barely know who he even is would be akin to Oedipus consulting with the shepherd and the revelation of his birth occurring at the very start of the play. It doesn't work as the fall itself is what is supposed to be climax of the tragedy, with the battle on terra merely the result of the chief climax of the Horus Heresy- Horus' fall itself. And of course what this results in is most of the Horus Heresy consisting of worthless bolter porn fodder that does nothing but act as padding for a mostly empty tale.

Furthermore being an NYT best seller is worthless as a judgement of literary quality. It doesn't even represent a reader count, the number is just drawn from what bookstores order copies of.

Well lore can still be written at the time of Ullanor and before, I'd love a pre-heresy series, that could add a lot more to Horus' character as well as all the other Primarchs. The first three novels did a great job of defining Horus as a character though.

I did find it interesting that, considering how hard Guiilman pushed to have his codex adopted by the other legions, that the Primaris kind of got a hand wave on the finer points. Forgive me if I'm wrong, as I do fight for Chaos, but I had always read it that the codex included unit structures, load outs, and experience reguirements to get promoted to different units. I've heard several people say that Primaris are set up like SM units in 30K.

Now obviously GW wanted them to be different in function and mechanics from old marines. In the setting you could justify it that the Primaris in stasis needed to be deployed quickly and didn't have the luxury at the time to have it drilled into them. It still seems like something that Bob would want rectified quickly so that Primaris squads would have the versatility of existing SM units and fit in with the existing structures (requiring fresh Primaris recruits to serve as scouts for example). While this is clearly a case of the mechanics driving the narrative, it does seem to imply that Guillman is not as keen on his magnum opus as he used to be.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m still surprised by how badly everyone considers Horus’ fall to be written. He was teased by visions from the Chaos gods about how he’d be left behind and ignored by his father (which on its own he would laugh at). But they waited until he was struck low by the Chaos Blade, was feverish, and they attacked his body first, got to his mind and his emotions while he was roiling with fever and close to death. They didn’t try to turn him when was strong, they tricked him when he was at his weakest. I’m amazed by the amount of times I’ve seen on here that “Horus’ fall was terribly written”; yet it made perfect sense. It wasn’t the deepest thing ever written, but it was completely logical and written so the average reader would appreciate it.

Except they don't 'trick him.' He's fully cognizant of what's going on, recognizes his 'guide' as Erebus and successfully identifies the whole thing as manipulation to trick and trap him, and points that out.

It was the opposite of logical and understandable. The most compelling motive you can give him at that stage was he resented daddy a bit, and was oddly jealous of his brothers, given his primacy.

False Gods, p 324 wrote:You must take me for a fool, Erebus, if you think such simple parlor tricks would bewitch me to your cause.

What apparently sways him is he likes Lorgar more than Magnus. But we kind of have to guess at that (based on his 'most beloved brother' thought) since the actual decision is made 'off camera.'
But it might as well be fate, mental control, writer fiat or lol!random with the given text.



----

@Skaorn- that's actually touched on in the Primarch series novel named after him. He doesn't look at the Codex as magnum opus, and certainly not the holy untouchable doctrine it got turned into over the millenia.
His take on it is a summary of experience that NEEDS to be changed to adapt to new circumstances. It gives the impression that he will be disappointed that his sons clung to it so rigidly. It's advice, not proscriptive, and by its nature unfinished and unable to be finished (as new foes, battlefields, weaponry and circumstances are always going to arise).

That said, the Primaris setup is mysteriously even more rigid than the SM one and makes even less sense in this context, as too many of the primaris units should run into unsolvable problems on a regular basis. (Though I suspect it's model design driving mechanics driving narrative)

But yeah, no surprise he's not very keen. The chapters clung to it because it became holy, not because it was correct. Even when the advice was outdated or otherwise incorrect.