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Like, just looking at battle scribe messing with things, you could easily run 2 Shadowswords + a Macharius Vulcan, and have 900 points left for Infantry (which is a LOT of infantry in the Guard).

Has anyone tried something like this? Would it work? It would certainly look pretty dang cool on the table at least, I'm building a Shadowsword now and it's a damn beautiful model.

You can do it but you are generally worse than Knights without a lot of benefits for losing ion shields and the warlord traits and relics. This will get you trapped into lots of who goes first wins games or games that are decided by a critical dice roll here or there.

As an example I ran a small 10 player ITC event last weekend and the top table was me with 2 Shadowswords/Baneblade/Hellhammer with quad heavy flamer sponsons vs a triple Shadowsword plus infantry and mortars list. I was only on the table because my round 2 opponent rolled triple 1s on the Genestealer Cult mind control power and then that final game was decided by the roll for first turn since the loser was not going to have much left on the table. So can it work? Sure. Is it the best approach or one that will give you a lot of matchup flexibility? Not necessarily.

I run a Baneblade Company routinely (and had to struggle through all the problems that causes).

They're not bad at all, and while they're not top-tier competitive like Mono-Knights, they're cheaper (generally) per-unit-firepower and have much better support options.

Knights in no-way made my superheavy tank regiment obsolete. If you have specific questions, let me know.

Comment, though: I'd not run the Vulcan. It's not a very good tank for its price; it's something like 405 + weapons, with the VMB being free. For 25 points (+ weapons) more, you can get 4 more wounds, a 40-man transport capacity, and a firing deck for 20 models from a Stormlord, which also has a VMB.

On the Stormlord vs Macharius thing, according to my copy of Battlescribe at least there's a 75 point difference between them. The Stormlord is ~450, and the Macharius is ~375. That's with both of them having identical weapons loadouts.

The firing deck is pretty cool though, you could put a bunch of SWS in there with triple plasma, or maybe a pair of 4x plasma command squads.... would be expensive, but pretty powerful.

 Horst wrote:
On the Stormlord vs Macharius thing, according to my copy of Battlescribe at least there's a 75 point difference between them. The Stormlord is ~450, and the Macharius is ~375. That's with both of them having identical weapons loadouts.

The firing deck is pretty cool though, you could put a bunch of SWS in there with triple plasma, or maybe a pair of 4x plasma command squads.... would be expensive, but pretty powerful.

They don't have identical weapons loadouts. The Macharius has 2 Heavy Stubbers and a Twin Heavy Stubber, plus the VMB. The Stormlord has the VMB, 2 heavy stubbers, and a twin heavy bolter. A THB is considerably better than a THS, and the 4 extra wounds and transport capacity is icing on the cake.

Macharius Vulcan [24 PL, 373pts]: 2 Heavy Bolters, Twin Heavy Stubber

Stormlord [26 PL, 452pts]: 2x Heavy stubber, Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [50 PL, 825pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

That's copied directly out of Battlescribe. So it looks like you're paying 79 points for those 4 wounds + transport capacity.

* edit - It's possible their points costs are off, it might be an error in the software. I don't know, the rules in this version are all over the place so I'm relying pretty heavily on Battlescribe being correct for me to build lists.

 Horst wrote:
Macharius Vulcan [24 PL, 373pts]: 2 Heavy Bolters, Twin Heavy Stubber

Stormlord [26 PL, 452pts]: 2x Heavy stubber, Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [50 PL, 825pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

That's copied directly out of Battlescribe. So it looks like you're paying 79 points for those 4 wounds + transport capacity.

* edit - It's possible their points costs are off, it might be an error in the software. I don't know, the rules in this version are all over the place so I'm relying pretty heavily on Battlescribe being correct for me to build lists.

Lemme look, but from memory the Macharius Vulcan's base cost was 405. Incidentally, its base sponson weapons are Heavy Stubbers, not Heavy Bolters. You'd have to pay to upgrade them, I think. Let me check.

EDIT: You're right, its base cost is 350 + weapons, or 365 for the base cost. No idea where I got the 405 base from, but yeah, in that case, it's a better way to take a VMB than the Stormlord if you aren't looking for the extra transport cap.

Can you give me an example of a list you'd run then as a super-heavy company?

Playing around in battlescribe with the models I already own, it looks like I could run Pask in an Executioner, 3 company commanders, a Primaris Psyker, 90 infantry, 6 mortar teams, 2 Shadowswords, and a Macharius (I like the model).

All I'd need to get is a second Shadowsword and the Macharius (which admittedly are very expensive).

 Horst wrote:
Can you give me an example of a list you'd run then as a super-heavy company?

Playing around in battlescribe with the models I already own, it looks like I could run Pask in an Executioner, 3 company commanders, a Primaris Psyker, 90 infantry, 6 mortar teams, 2 Shadowswords, and a Macharius (I like the model).

All I'd need to get is a second Shadowsword and the Macharius (which admittedly are very expensive).

I use 3 Baneblade-chassis tanks for ~1500-1600 (for example my 3 Stormhammers end up being I think 1542), then 2 battalions: 1 Ad-Mech with 2 Enginseers and 3 Skitarii (this gives access to enginseers and the Tech-Adept stratagem, giving you 3-9 wounds repaired per turn, with 2-6 on one tank. If you take the Warlord from this detachment, that becomes 4-8 wounds on one tank and 5-11 wounds total), 1 Imperial Guard for bodies.

Flavor to taste.

I never even thought about using the AdMech codex for a detachment to repair... that sounds like a really cool idea. What would the main weaknesses of this army be? Knights? Or Hordes?

 Horst wrote:
I never even thought about using the AdMech codex for a detachment to repair... that sounds like a really cool idea. What would the main weaknesses of this army be? Knights? Or Hordes?

In my experience, it's actually maneuverability. Locally, we play with lots of Terrain, which makes even Baneblades tactical because they've got niches to hide in and whatnot. The problem, though, is the vehicles are so massive that they struggle to maneuver flexibly, lacking Fly. The places where something the size of a Baneblade can fit are quite obvious, and so I often find myself dividing my company between the "overwatch" or "fire support tank" which gets put in a place where it has only one real exit but good vision, and the two "maneuver tanks" which typically pound forwards and assault.

Sometimes even the two tanks get in each other's way, if the table is really cramped. I've definitely struggled to push three up the table without cutting each other off, etc. So two as a maneuver element (looking to use the Baneblade's impressive close-combat stats and ability to lock in and still shoot) and one as a Fire Support element that has self-defense from backfield assaulters (since Baneblades give no gaks about being locked up, unlike most backfield support units).

A key different between the Macharius and the Stormlord is the melee power. Stormlord has 6 more attacks, 1 more strength and the track weapon with -2ap d3 damage. I know it's a tank and melee isn't great but with 2+ crush them stratagem a baneblade variant should not be underestimated.

I really hate the stormlord though, for no good reason. I would take a crazy flamer hellhammer. I always wanted to unleash a catachan 4xflamer hellhammer to yo-yo in and out of combat. Can you give it the Tallarn warlord trait for maximum yo-yo-ing?

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Vulcan is Heavy 15/30 while the Stormlord is Heavy 20.

30 shots while stationary is really good with Cadia.

Stormlord used to be able to shoot twice if it didn't move. Can it not do that anymore?

diagramdude wrote:
I'm surprised no one mentioned the Vulcan is Heavy 15/30 while the Stormlord is Heavy 20.

30 shots while stationary is really good with Cadia.

For some reason I thought it lost that ability, although checking the FAQ it seems you are correct. That changes things a bit. I do love Macharius models, although my preferred variant is the vanquisher. That is a bit rubbish compared to a russ though.