Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

First of all, I have a side question:
Are there any other factions besides Astartes (both Adeptus and Heretic) that do not apply their special sub-faction traits to specific units?

If not, than hopefully GW fixes the Astartes and allows their traits to apply for all units with the appropriate keywords.
If that happens, what Marine traits would become appealing?

For example, the UM trait could be interesting on a mech list. And assuming Raven Guard and Alpha Legion become cover bonues, that could also make mech lists interesting.
Thoughts?

-

Death Guard, if you count them separately since they're a separate Codex.

If it changed, it would make Predators/LRs/Crawlers that much better since moving and firing with no penalty is big.

Ultramarines and Raven Guard would be the biggest winners. Again.

Iron Hands would be okay-ish, but without the stacking on Ven Dreads it's still useless. They have the worst version of the Ven Dread!

AFAIK it's only Space Marines and CSM that don't apply army wide (although other armies have some exceptions like Scions, Freebootas, Gretchin, etc).

It makes no sense that an Ultramarine suddenly forgets he's an Ultramarine when he's in the drivers seat of a Rhino but an Alatioc Eldar remembers he's Alatioc when flying a Fire Prism.

The sad truth is however that even if traits did apply to Marine Tanks, they would still be sub-par due to useless stratagems and the traits themselves being bad.

Bit of a tangent but I'd love catachan rough riders or bullgryns for the leap to S6/8 respectively, though it doesn't make sense fluff-wise (well maybe the rough riders ).
Joking aside guard are a bit of a mess with all the sub-factions and who can use orders/doctrines.

The Imperial Guard one is a silly issue just like with Chaos Marine Steed HQ units.

Just make it so the Traits apply to Calvary. Done. Why this hasn't been done yet I don't know. Do we need to get a campaign started to do this or what?

Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, does not get the Ultramarines chapter tactics, because he is a monster. GG

 Marmatag wrote:
Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, does not get the Ultramarines chapter tactics, because he is a monster. GG

Seems legit. Obviously his special rules represent the Codex Astartes As Intended, while the Chapter uses the Codex Astartes As Written.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, does not get the Ultramarines chapter tactics, because he is a monster. GG

Seems legit. Obviously his special rules represent the Codex Astartes As Intended, while the Chapter uses the Codex Astartes As Written.

Probably my favorite post by you, ever.

Actually laughed out loud.

Tau traits don't apply to auxiliaries like Kroot and Vespid.

Ork traits don't apply to Grots.

Necrons traits don't apply to Triach (?)

 Marmatag wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, does not get the Ultramarines chapter tactics, because he is a monster. GG

Seems legit. Obviously his special rules represent the Codex Astartes As Intended, while the Chapter uses the Codex Astartes As Written.

Probably my favorite post by you, ever.

Actually laughed out loud.

Indeed, absolute gold!

meleti wrote:
Tau traits don't apply to auxiliaries like Kroot and Vespid.

Ork traits don't apply to Grots.

Necrons traits don't apply to Triach (?)

And those make sense. But Astartes vehicles should get Chapter Tactics, as should their friggin Primarch

-

If SM/CSM get their traits extended to the whole army (as they should), several would need a complete rewrite - example Word Bearers rerolling morale on vehicles? Woo!

Well that traits being useless on vehicles is less relevant than them applying consistently as other factions' traits do.
There are a few CWE traits that do nothing for their vehicles, but that apply nonetheless

-

As a CSM Renegades player this would actually change nothing for me. It would slightly extend the range of my tanks and rhinos if I wanted to tie something up in close combat, but generally speaking the traits currently apply to:

-Daemon Princes
-Bikers
-Infantry
-Helbrutes (all types)

And my trait is to advance and charge. So it would actually change very little. As mentioned above, it would be pretty irrelevent on some units, but it's still the trait...so that's fine. My Eldar are currently running Iyanden and that benefits very few of my major units.

Which is why Marine traits need a full re-write. They should either be made applicable to all unit types, or go the Imperial Guard route of having split traits for some (ala Catachans).

Lots of armies have traits that dont do squat for lots of units, even if they may technically benefit. Yeah, SM tanks dont get chapter tactics. Catachan Hydras, Exterminators, Vanquishers, Punishers, non-flamer equipped Sentinels & Chimeras, etc get no benefit from a their trait despite it being therr and arguably OP on random shot units.

Ultimately, I really dont want to have to deal with 2+sv -1 to hit Hemlocks any more than I wanna deal with -2 to hit ones

 Elbows wrote:
As a CSM Renegades player this would actually change nothing for me. It would slightly extend the range of my tanks and rhinos if I wanted to tie something up in close combat, but generally speaking the traits currently apply to:

-Daemon Princes
-Bikers
-Infantry
-Helbrutes (all types)

And my trait is to advance and charge. So it would actually change very little. As mentioned above, it would be pretty irrelevent on some units, but it's still the trait...so that's fine. My Eldar are currently running Iyanden and that benefits very few of my major units.

You'd have a reason to run the Maulerfiend. Probably not enough of a reason, but a reason nonetheless!

Tyranids have some big IFs.

Jormungandr works only for units without <FLY>

Hydra needs you to outnumber the enemy, which removes all characters and monsters.

Kronos does nothing on pure melee units and monsters (and we have many of those).

Gorgon, Kraken, Behemoth, and Leviathan can be used by all units (Leviathan requires some range micro management)

I think Iron Warriors trait would be awesome on some of the vehicles, such as predators and Rapier Artilleries.

Rumor has it (obviously unconfirmed) that Chapter Tactics WILL be getting applied to all units as of Chapter Approved 2018. Take that with a grain of salt.

Being able to ignore cover while having a bunch of Assault Cannon Razorbacks driving around would be nuts. Especially when things like Raven Guard/Alaitoc/Stygies VIII are being changed to a cover bonus.

Cant wait to reroll charge range for my black templar predator tanks... Woooho!

 Galef wrote:
First of all, I have a side question:
Are there any other factions besides Astartes (both Adeptus and Heretic) that do not apply their special sub-faction traits to specific units?

If not, than hopefully GW fixes the Astartes and allows their traits to apply for all units with the appropriate keywords.
If that happens, what Marine traits would become appealing?

For example, the UM trait could be interesting on a mech list. And assuming Raven Guard and Alpha Legion become cover bonues, that could also make mech lists interesting.
Thoughts?

-

Custodes, also don't get their special rules applied on vehicles except the Contemptor Dread. As I can remember, their venerable LR don't get that 5++ save.

Gitdakka wrote:
Cant wait to reroll charge range for my black templar predator tanks... Woooho!

Almost as good as your Predators having +1 to wound in melee when they charge or get charged.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rumor has it (obviously unconfirmed) that Chapter Tactics WILL be getting applied to all units as of Chapter Approved 2018.

What is the source of this rumour?

i'd imagine that if the rumour is true that it will be like IG regimental traits which differ depending on what uses them.

As a Dark Angels player, I don't think our tactic being army wide would make a massive difference.

To remind people, it's re-roll 1s to hit for shooting attacks if you don't move.

A lot of our units want to be mobile, so this would never apply to them. It would help Predators and certain dreadnoughts for sure, but most serious DA players were taking Azrael for their gunline anyway, which makes it redundant. Not to mention that those units aren't exactly super stars anyway.

I wouldn't turn it down and it would come up a bit, but it wouldn't change much in terms of how the army played and the power level.

 Stux wrote:
As a Dark Angels player, I don't think our tactic being army wide would make a massive difference.

To remind people, it's re-roll 1s to hit for shooting attacks if you don't move.

A lot of our units want to be mobile, so this would never apply to them. It would help Predators and certain dreadnoughts for sure, but most serious DA players were taking Azrael for their gunline anyway, which makes it redundant.

I wouldn't turn it down and it would come up a bit, but it wouldn't change much in terms of how the army played and the power level.

Whirlwinds rerolling 1s ? I mean they are not good but i 'd imagine that atleast that would help the poor thing a bit.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rumor has it (obviously unconfirmed) that Chapter Tactics WILL be getting applied to all units as of Chapter Approved 2018.

What is the source of this rumour?

I first saw it on BaCS, but it definitely sounds like internet wish listing the more I look at the post.

Yeah, I don't think applying the current Marine traits to all units would make a huge, meta-shifting change. But it would feel more consistent with other factions and there would be some slight changes in rare situations that would make Marines just that much better.
It's a needed change and should have been that way from the start.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Stux wrote:
As a Dark Angels player, I don't think our tactic being army wide would make a massive difference.

To remind people, it's re-roll 1s to hit for shooting attacks if you don't move.

A lot of our units want to be mobile, so this would never apply to them. It would help Predators and certain dreadnoughts for sure, but most serious DA players were taking Azrael for their gunline anyway, which makes it redundant.

I wouldn't turn it down and it would come up a bit, but it wouldn't change much in terms of how the army played and the power level.

Whirlwinds rerolling 1s ? I mean they are not good but i 'd imagine that atleast that would help the poor thing a bit.

Right, but if that was worthwhile we'd see people taking them to stick next to Azrael/their Captain already.