When was Abaddon "retconned" into being successful?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Skaorn**

I dropped out of 40K around 6th ed. Since I've come back I keep hearing about Failbaddon who failed 12 times and then GW retconned him into winning. I get that GW retconned a lot of the 13th Black Crusade campaign results, which I get. It's not like they ended the campaign and Abaddon retreated into the Eye. They just left it as a cliffhanger, with the 13th still ongoing but frozen until GW decided to really push the storyline forward.

Now, when I started playing with the Chaos 3.0 codex, almost 20 years ago, I'm fairly certain that they described the previous 12 Black Crusade were generally designed to achieve specific goals and the ones that actually get described seem to have some measure of success building up to something bigger, and that the Imperium was very worried what might happen when the 13th one finally happened. Yes, he would pull back when he was satisfied and things started to grind down, because the Crusades weren't the war, just offensives in it, and he knew the Imperium would keep sending more, and overwhelming his forces. I know this was definitely in BFG and.3.5 Chaos. The only real shift in the narrative I experienced was going from the 13th Crusade was coming to it was here.

So what is the retcon people are talking about? Did I some how miss some major change before the 3rd ed codex. Is it that they changed things for the 13th from what GW described at the end of the campaign? Or is it something else people are referring to when they talk about Failbaddon and retcons?

**Danielle Rae**

I think the problem people have is that Abbaddon projects the affect of being a big-spikey-evil-dude, like Sauron or Archaon, and the Black Legion is described as being big and scary. This gives the impression to those who didn't read much into the lore -myself included, for quite a while- that any one of his Black Crusades could and should have toppled the Imperium. The need to hype up Cadia and the Imperials in general plus inconsistent writing adds to this.

The thing is, while Abbaddon is big, spikey, and evil, he is not a big-spikey-evil-dude. From the end of the Horus Heresy onwards, his side has been the weaker one: less well-equipped, disunited, with little infrastructure supporting them, outnumbered by the vast reserves of the Imperium and their massive navies. Abbaddon ultimately had to win through strategy and magical shenanigans: going toe-to-toe with the Imperium was never a viable option. So it speaks to Abbaddon's strategic genius that he was able to strike deep into Imperial space 12 times and come away unscathed every time. Expecting the Black Crusades to conquer Terra is kind of like asking Robin Hood to take Nottingham Castle by siege.

Fast-forward 12 black crusades, and Abbaddon has come out of it stronger, not weaker. He now has multiple superweapons, has swelled the ranks of the Black Legion with other warbands who've flocked to his banner after each daring raid into the Imperium, and has weakened the fabric of reality and pleased the gods enough to summon massive quantities of daemonic allies. Plus, the Imperium's kinda got its hands full with Ghazzy, Leviathan, and bickering. It's only then that he becomes a big-spikey-evil-dude and can finally take them on head-on, and despite the intervention of a tactical genius, a living saint and various other factors he still manages to take Cadia and all-but shatter the Imperium.

Man's a beast.

**BaconCatBug**

I don't get why people are so scared of Abaddon, 'e's 'armless.

I think the dislike is more to do with GWs botched advancing of the storyline more than anything specifically retconed.

**Grimtuff**

BaconCatBug wrote:
I don't get why people are so scared of Abaddon, 'e's 'armless. .

And the low-hanging fruit "humour" never ceases.... Wanna roll out some other classics?

People think Abby was a failure as they only get their background from 1d4Chan, memes and gakky Youtube shows. It was never retconned- it was expanded in the BFG book and various other sources such as the EoT campaign.

**Arachnofiend**

Problem with Abaddon is that GW's writers (much like most everyone in sell-a-game fiction) aren't smart enough to write strategic geniuses. You get a lot of tell-not-show where you're told that the character is a master manipulator with grand designs far beyond our feeble comprehension but what you see is the character getting their butt kicked at every turn like they're Team Rocket. It's only natural that it'd surprise people when the character's plots eventually work out.

**nareik**

Abaddon's first inclusion was in 2nd ed, and even there the codex was clear that each Black Crusade secured strategic victories, and no single Black Crusade was an attempt to destroy the galaxy piecemeal (yet).

I'm guessing somewhere between 3rd and 5th there may have been an absence of evidence for what the crusades accomplished, leading to the notion they were 12 failed attempts to retake the imperium. That wouldn't really be a retcon though, more a failure to detail.

**Formosa**

He wasn’t, filling in detail is not the same as a retcon, so when some single line of text says “abbadon attacked blah blah sector and was defeated” it doesn’t contain enough information, so when a novel, codex or campaign book comes out and fills in the details and we see that abbadon got what he wanted and left, that’s not a retcon.

That and the abbadon has no arms meme

**AegisGrimm**

Grimtuff wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
I don't get why people are so scared of Abaddon, 'e's 'armless. .

And the low-hanging fruit "humour" never ceases.... Wanna roll out some other classics?

People think Abby was a failure as they only get their background from 1d4Chan, memes and gakky Youtube shows. It was never retconned- it was expanded in the BFG book and various other sources such as the EoT campaign.

This^ in a nutshell. Not one single Black Crusade was meant to take the war to the Imperium, they were all performed with a specific goal in mind and the conflict was mainly to keep Imperial forces occupied. Like how the entire Gothic War was done with obtaining the Blackstones in mind, along with field testing his superweapon-ship.

They may have been called Crusades, but Abaddon is still mainly a guerilla warfare general.

**HoundsofDemos**

I don't have my eye of terror book with me at the moment or access to much of the 2nd edition fluff but I believe the idea that every black crusade was an attempt to destroy Terra in one shot and were all thrown back with chaos being totally defeated was something that the actual text never has supported and instead something that a few people in the community with a shallow understand of said text started and it just snow balled from there.

**Wayniac**

Abaddon was ALWAYS successful. I don't know where this failure stuff started but even back in 2nd edition (i.e. when there was an Abaddon since he didn't exist in Rogue Trader) the Black Crusades always had some ulterior motive and were general "let's cause mayhem in the Imperium". They were never full scale assaults that failed as far as I can remember.

I have a copy of the 2nd edition codex. I'll transcribe the black crusade section tomorrow morning. But someone basically read that since there were multiple crusades, it meant they were failed attempts.

It's basically a 4chan meme that spread. Same like the armless thing because supposedly the arms on his model are prone to falling off (must have been the Finecast version because I had the metal one back in the day and never had problems) so people used him without arms, hence "Failbaddon the Armless"

**Crazyterran**

I thought the super weapon ships were the Blackstone Fortresses, and he lost the one he had (the other Huron has, for some reason) at Cadia.

The other four in the gothic sector blew up, after all.

**Wayniac**

So, as promised.

From the 2nd edition chaos Codex on Black Crusades (note that here the term "Black Crusade" is any major Chaos attack, not just Abaddon's. That he is synonymous with Black Crusade is indicative of his infamy and how devastating his crusades are):

Spoiler:

THE BLACK CRUSADES

Perhaps once or twice in a millenia a truly great Champion of Chaos will arise in the Eye of Terror. Through the power of his implacable will and the favour of the Dark Gods this CHampion can weld together an unsteady alliance between the infernal regions of the Eye. How the Champion brings the crusade together depends on his nature and his patron god. Some use manipulation, others extortion, others domination, others intimidation. Most simply use all of the considerable powers at their disposal.

Preparations for a Crusade can take years, of weeks depending on the whims of the gods. The forges of hell worlds belch out armour and weapons for the chosen one's followers, daemon engines are aroused from their dark slumber with blood sacrifices, factions vie for command of the massed ranks of crusaders or are crushed into obedience.

When the Black Crusade is launched the Eye of Terror vomits forth the diabolic hordes of Chaos: armies of daemons, rank upon rank of huge, twisted monsters; numberless masses of Cultists; wild tribes of Beastmen; ancient and terrifying Chaos Titans. Spearheading it all are the Chaos Space Marine Legions, united in their lust for booty and their desire to bring destruction upon the hated Imperium.

The Imperium keeps strong forces stationed around the Eye to fend off these invasions. Entire Titan Legions, Space Marine Chapters and massed regiments of the Imperial Guard defend the most vital systems in close proximity to the Eye. But even powerful fighting formations like these cannot guarantee victory over the infernal throng. All too often the black tide of Chaos expands and recedes leaving entire systems ravaged and burned. Whole planetary populations are irrevocably tainted by Chaos, cities and industries are crushed by the thunderous pounding of diabolic engines of destruction, uncounted citizens are dragged away to serve as slaves and playthings to the damned souls and their daemonic masters at the edge of reality.

Every city ruined, every planet burned brings the Imperium a little closer to dissolution. In an Imperium of a million worlds, how much can a single world matter? Enough to have to defend each one against the infernal host, enough to bring the curse of Exterminatus upon those that bend the knee and bow down to daemon-king. A Black Crusade may come crashing forth from the Eye only once in a thousand years but the damage it inflicts can never be undone.

From Abaddon's flavor text in the 2nd edition Codex:

Spoiler:

**YeOldSaltPotato**

It's like there being a billion black templars or a single line marine taking a planet one handed, they're bizarre extrapolations people made from intentionally inconsistent lore.

Abadon's rules weren't amazing for a few editions and he didn't immediately win, it's about all it takes for something to 'suck' in fandom.

**Irbis**

Danielle Rae wrote:
I think the problem people have is that Abbaddon projects the affect of being a big-spikey-evil-dude, like Sauron or Archaon, and the Black Legion is described as being big and scary. This gives the impression to those who didn't read much into the lore -myself included, for quite a while- that any one of his Black Crusades could and should have toppled the Imperium. The need to hype up Cadia and the Imperials in general plus inconsistent writing adds to this.

The thing is, while Abbaddon is big, spikey, and evil, he is not a big-spikey-evil-dude. From the end of the Horus Heresy onwards, his side has been the weaker one: less well-equipped, disunited, with little infrastructure supporting them, outnumbered by the vast reserves of the Imperium and their massive navies. Abbaddon ultimately had to win through strategy and magical shenanigans: going toe-to-toe with the Imperium was never a viable option. So it speaks to Abbaddon's strategic genius that he was able to strike deep into Imperial space 12 times and come away unscathed every time. Expecting the Black Crusades to conquer Terra is kind of like asking Robin Hood to take Nottingham Castle by siege.

Fast-forward 12 black crusades, and Abbaddon has come out of it stronger, not weaker. He now has multiple superweapons, has swelled the ranks of the Black Legion with other warbands who've flocked to his banner after each daring raid into the Imperium, and has weakened the fabric of reality and pleased the gods enough to summon massive quantities of daemonic allies. Plus, the Imperium's kinda got its hands full with Ghazzy, Leviathan, and bickering. It's only then that he becomes a big-spikey-evil-dude and can finally take them on head-on, and despite the intervention of a tactical genius, a living saint and various other factors he still manages to take Cadia and all-but shatter the Imperium.

You guys got it wrong. The problem is not the fact that previous 12 crusades were raids that eventually had to withdraw against overwhelming forces. That would be perfectly natural and believable.

Not, the problem is GW writers incompetence in trying to retcon hit and fade raids into GLORIOUSU VICTORU (to paraphrase STW 2 meme) with hilarious ineptitude. Let's take BC #3. We learn from the retcon it was overwhelming triumph because he managed to desecrate a grave of this random dude. Wot? He pissed away tens of thousands of heretic astartes, millions of cultists and dozens of titans because he was afraid of random saint? And it's not like it helped any, because Celestine had shown up instead. Gee, this doesn't sound like a huge triumph to me, does it to you?

Then we have BC #1, he pisses away yet more forces to claim a sword. Which is pretty neat, but no idea how it's neater than all the forces of chaos that died so Abby could wave his new stick. BC #7, where he wastes thousands of CSM (presumed lost with their geneseed) to claim a few hundred loyalist glands as replacement. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't really sound like a victory either. BC #8, where he pleases Tzeentch with freshly harvested skulls for some reason (how giving Khorne's traditional offering to his greatest enemy didn't piss off Big K massively is left unexplained, making it even more of a fail). BC #10, where massive horde of Chaos can't even take one Chapter homeworld. BC #11, where Abby is beaten back by a single Waagh, something that is routinely defeated by small loyalist forces. Etc, etc, each new retcon is hilarious in its different way considering how little he gains (not even plunder and slaves found in old lore) and how much he loses doing so, making you wonder how he still has any forces left by tenth or so attempt.

Literally the only well written BC is the 12th one, the least touched by new retcons, because in it Imperium at least suffers any losses of note, Abby despite being beaten back at least gains something tangible (the two BF which he manages to pointlessly lose with little gains in #13), and the Chaos inflicts bigger losses than they suffered. Had the others looked more like that, and less like BC #8 (where he destroys a handful of habitats then kills less than a thousand pilgrims and calls it a day) then the meme wouldn't have any reason to exist...

**Skaorn**

Essentially there was no retcon and what people think is a retcon is actually GW backfilling in details that weren't originally described. I remember looking at Lexicanum and seeing most of the Crusades being blank or with a throw away line. Now it seems like they've tried to put in at least a little something for every one, rather than filling in one when someone actually had a cool sounding idea. Instead, some of them make me really question just what the Imperium considers a Black Crusade by Abaddon. It seems more like any time Abaddon shows up outside of the Eye, it becomes a Black Crusade.

The 3rd Crusade seems mostly about Abaddon tricking a Daemon Prince into attacking Cadia while using it as an opportunity to strike at the Shrine world. While potentially removing a second Saint from the final assault on Cadia (I think having 2 might have really changed things), based on the admittedly limited description, I'd say most of the fighting was done by Abaddon's patsy. Then you have something like the 6th which seems to be against a renegade war band or the 11th which seems mostly about capturing Orcs for experimentation. There might have been some action against the Imperium at the time, but should these really be considered a Crusade against the Imperium? Having anytime Abaddon show up outside of the Eye has many in the Imperium count it as a Black Crusade makes sense. It does mean that the focus on the 13th being "the Big One" is kind of pointless though.

So the issues with Abaddon isn't the character or any change in his basic lore around him (his Black Crusades being all parts of a larger plan is nothing new), it's trying to fill in too much info at once. Quality of writing aside, I can imagine some idea snowballing for what to do with the empty ones to include statements like "can we use Mr. StayPuff". Not that backfilling is a bad thing, you just can't manufacture gold on command and trying to force it doesn't work.

**Techpriestsupport**

Maybe someone at gw got sick of all the smug little fhanbois going on about "failbaddon" that they decided to make them look stupid...

**NinthMusketeer**

Skaorn wrote:
Essentially there was no retcon and what people think is a retcon is actually GW backfilling in details that weren't originally described.

This is the impression I got as well.

**nareik**

I like to think the 'thousands of marines' he wastes are ones who have loyalties to rival lords which are getting uppity, hard to control, are more interested in the eternal war than the long war.

Having these marines of such dubious loyalties purged seems expedient, and is consistent with Lunar Wolves history, as well as being moustache twirlingly "just as planned".

**NinthMusketeer**

Throw a few thousand marines in, and the few hundred chosen you get back are worth a point more per model!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
Essentially there was no retcon and what people think is a retcon is actually GW backfilling in details that weren't originally described.
This is the impression I got as well.

Yup.

Not a recon, but the introduction of a new perspective on things.

**Sgt. Cortez**

Someone correct me on this but I think it was the Black legion Codex supplement in 6th edition that gave a rather detailed background and reasoning to all black crusades for the first time. So that would be the answer of the OP.

I agree partly though that with Gathering Storm and how the Fall of Cadia worked out some of the Black crusades seem rather pointless in retrospect.

**iGuy91**

Honestly, it was hardly a retconn. It makes sense that perhaps imperial strategists did not realize his long term plan. A series of disjointed, seemingly unrelated objectives coalesce into a final hammerblow against the one piece of the puzzle that would not budge, Cadia itself.

He was always succeeding, but GW is using a new writing perspective as people in the setting come to realize what was actually going on, beyond the obvious.

Also, it helps advance the plot.

**Skaorn**

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Someone correct me on this but I think it was the Black legion Codex supplement in 6th edition that gave a rather detailed background and reasoning to all black crusades for the first time. So that would be the answer of the OP.

No, because all it did was expand on Abaddon's Black Crusades. It didn't change the idea that Abaddon used them to achieve specific goals aren't weren't just failed attempts to break the Imperium. This has been a major component of Abaddon since basically the beginning.

**Captain Joystick**

Wayniac wrote:
Same like the armless thing because supposedly the arms on his model are prone to falling off (must have been the Finecast version because I had the metal one back in the day and never had problems)

The armless joke has to do with the Talon of Horus - that piece of his model is big, heavy, and meant to be extended outward with only the glue in a tiny elbow socket to keep it in place - it's famously fragile, like all models that use that paradigm (the Canoness is at least easier to pin) but the real problem is that pose means gravity will eventually stress it enough to break the join.

The Finecast model, naturally, has less problems of that nature.

**AegisGrimm**

Crazyterran wrote:
I thought the super weapon ships were the Blackstone Fortresses, and he lost the one he had (the other Huron has, for some reason) at Cadia.

The other four in the gothic sector blew up, after all.

Not really, although they were superweapons themselves. In Battlefleet Gothic Abaddon's flagship was a unique construct called the Planet Killer. It was essentially a flying gun that had multiple warp cannons that if fired together could crack a planet. Imperial scholars mused that from what they could gather, even the construction of the ship wasn't possible outside of the Eye of Terror/Warp space.

**Wayniac**

Yeah during the Gothic War, Abaddon basically had the Death Star.