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So, I watched a flip-through of the latest CA, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but apart from the points adjustments, there seems to be very little in general in it.

For example.........

Rumored full smite for GK and Thousand boyz isn't happening. I'd also have preferred that rubrics get a rule similar to GK's that don't evaporate half the squad if they perils, but very few new datasheets.

Rumored -1 to hit tactics changing to cover isn't happening. That's a bit of a shocker, as the similar ork klan (blood axes) got always in cover instead of -1 to hit.

SM/CSM not getting chapter/legion tactics on all vehicles, like everyone else is also surprising. It seems only fair at this point.

And as an ork player, I was personally expecting that natural 6s always counting as a hit would be more than fair game-wide. But nothing outside of a blurb in city fights.

Lastly, also as an ork player, our 'gets hot' weapons only get hot on unmodified 1s, which again, seems more than fair game-wide. But nothing there either - so if it's dark out, shiny imperium plasma still catastrophically gets hot more easily, whereas ork stuff still only deals 1 MW on a natural 1. And on that topic, I think that gets hot should just cause 1 MW instead of a instagib, again, like orks.

So, somehow, ork plasma weaponry is more reliable and safer than imperium counterparts. That's an odd feeling.

So, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of actual rules tweaks, in addition to some odd points tweaking.

I'm a little surprised regular Leman Russes didn't go down a bit, with the -25 pts to Tank Commanders there's no reason to not take them over standard russes. Orders + BS3 is absolutely worth 15 points.

 Horst wrote:
I'm a little surprised regular Leman Russes didn't go down a bit, with the -25 pts to Tank Commanders there's no reason to not take them over standard russes. Orders + BS3 is absolutely worth 15 points.

Rule of 3 prevents abuse! Even though the points aren't balanced whatsoever! Yay Rule of 3!

Errata are for established rules getting tweaked, generally. Last CA a number of FAQs came out alongside. We'll have to see if the same thing happens here.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Horst wrote:
I'm a little surprised regular Leman Russes didn't go down a bit, with the -25 pts to Tank Commanders there's no reason to not take them over standard russes. Orders + BS3 is absolutely worth 15 points.

Rule of 3 prevents abuse! Even though the points aren't balanced whatsoever! Yay Rule of 3!

I will have to content myself with a Supreme Command consisting of Pask and 3 Tank Commanders for my heavy fire support I'll live somehow.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Errata are for established rules getting tweaked, generally. Last CA a number of FAQs came out alongside. We'll have to see if the same thing happens here.

Fingers crossed. Hopefully several things get tweaked.
Here's my wishlist:
DE Disintegrators go to Damage:1 or even D3 like Star cannons. Flat 2 is brutally reliable
Eldar Reaper launcher goes to Damage: D3 (D1 on the multi-shot mode)
CPs get a massive tweak, preferable returning Battalions to 3CPs and Battle Forged to 5CPs
Alaitoc/RG/AL become a cover bonus instead of -1 to be hit

I'll be happy if 3 out of 4 of this happen

-

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Errata are for established rules getting tweaked, generally. Last CA a number of FAQs came out alongside. We'll have to see if the same thing happens here.

That's a good point. I don't remember FAQs during last year's CA, but I'll take your word for it! Then again, if they're just going to FAQ everything (and they should FAQ point changes for free), makes you wonder why they bother with CA in the first place. I guess missions.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Errata are for established rules getting tweaked, generally. Last CA a number of FAQs came out alongside. We'll have to see if the same thing happens here.

That's a good point. I don't remember FAQs during last year's CA, but I'll take your word for it! Then again, if they're just going to FAQ everything (and they should FAQ point changes for free), makes you wonder why they bother with CA in the first place. I guess missions.

I could be remembering it incorrectly. I agree on points. They're clearly able to do them in FAQs, but I don't mind them in CA so that I can have on physical reference instead of printing off a bunch of FAQs.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Horst wrote:
I'm a little surprised regular Leman Russes didn't go down a bit, with the -25 pts to Tank Commanders there's no reason to not take them over standard russes. Orders + BS3 is absolutely worth 15 points.

Rule of 3 prevents abuse! Even though the points aren't balanced whatsoever! Yay Rule of 3!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe it's an official rule. I thought it was just a suggestion in CA.

 lolman1c wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Horst wrote:
I'm a little surprised regular Leman Russes didn't go down a bit, with the -25 pts to Tank Commanders there's no reason to not take them over standard russes. Orders + BS3 is absolutely worth 15 points.

Rule of 3 prevents abuse! Even though the points aren't balanced whatsoever! Yay Rule of 3!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe it's an official rule. I thought it was just a suggestion in CA.

Rule of 3 is a suggestion for organized events, yes. But is it such a GOOD suggestion, that 99% of events endorse it and therefore most players assume it to be the standard even in their casual games.
If you want to break the rule of 3 in your casual games, go nuts, just make sure your opponent knows/is ok with it as a courtesy.

-

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
So, I watched a flip-through of the latest CA, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but apart from the points adjustments, there seems to be very little in general in it.

For example.........

Rumored full smite for GK and Thousand boyz isn't happening. I'd also have preferred that rubrics get a rule similar to GK's that don't evaporate half the squad if they perils, but very few new datasheets.

Rumored -1 to hit tactics changing to cover isn't happening. That's a bit of a shocker, as the similar ork klan (blood axes) got always in cover instead of -1 to hit.

SM/CSM not getting chapter/legion tactics on all vehicles, like everyone else is also surprising. It seems only fair at this point.

And as an ork player, I was personally expecting that natural 6s always counting as a hit would be more than fair game-wide. But nothing outside of a blurb in city fights.

Lastly, also as an ork player, our 'gets hot' weapons only get hot on unmodified 1s, which again, seems more than fair game-wide. But nothing there either - so if it's dark out, shiny imperium plasma still catastrophically gets hot more easily, whereas ork stuff still only deals 1 MW on a natural 1. And on that topic, I think that gets hot should just cause 1 MW instead of a instagib, again, like orks.

So, somehow, ork plasma weaponry is more reliable and safer than imperium counterparts. That's an odd feeling.

So, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of actual rules tweaks, in addition to some odd points tweaking.

Probably saving those changes for the next Vigilus type book. My understanding is that book has updated data sheets (well at least for Calgar)

I'm not surprised by the lack to changes to rules. They don't seem to change datasheets for the most part.

However, there are some changes I'm surprised with:
Tank Commanders down like 20+ points, but no corresponding change to regular tanks. Why are Tank Commanders going down in points in the first place?
Manticores going back down to 133 points. Huh?
Those are both entirely unexpected.

It was also expected that Guardsmen would go up a point, especially since Cultists did, but didn't.
It was generally assumed that Tacticals would go down a point, but they didn't.

They seemed very conservative changes. (barring named characters at least)

And I think the reasoning for it is the re-introduction of formations.

Correct me if I'm wrong but chaos isn't officially at Vigilus yet except for a warband led by haarkon. 80 days lands in early March so I figure chaos formations will be the star along with a couple others(Tau and Necrons will probably be absent again unfortunately). I figure when abaddon shows up so will a bunch of demons followed up by GK formations since Vigilus is oh so important

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Errata are for established rules getting tweaked, generally. Last CA a number of FAQs came out alongside. We'll have to see if the same thing happens here.

Last year a bunch of faq's come out with CA because they hadn't moved to the 2x Faq per year schedule right?
I would not expect faq's this time.

It's another thing they keep missing. There's no reason CA shouldn't be for actual errata to the game as well. They just don't do it.

Kap'n Krump wrote:Lastly, also as an ork player, our 'gets hot' weapons only get hot on unmodified 1s, which again, seems more than fair game-wide. But nothing there either - so if it's dark out, shiny imperium plasma still catastrophically gets hot more easily, whereas ork stuff still only deals 1 MW on a natural 1. And on that topic, I think that gets hot should just cause 1 MW instead of a instagib, again, like orks.

So, somehow, ork plasma weaponry is more reliable and safer than imperium counterparts. That's an odd feeling.

Yeah, this point is baffling. Half of Imperial plasma has to include erratas and exceptions to not make 200+ model go pop because one tiny plasma gun somewhere in corner overloaded. They really should both make it universally unmodified 1 and 1 MW for all old gets hot weapons across the game.

Galef wrote:Fingers crossed. Hopefully several things get tweaked.
Here's my wishlist:
DE Disintegrators go to Damage:1 or even D3 like Star cannons. Flat 2 is brutally reliable
Eldar Reaper launcher goes to Damage: D3 (D1 on the multi-shot mode)
CPs get a massive tweak, preferable returning Battalions to 3CPs and Battle Forged to 5CPs
Alaitoc/RG/AL become a cover bonus instead of -1 to be hit

Yeah, a lot of guns with D2 in the game have no business doing so. It should really be limited to tank-grade guns or stuff with drawbacks (like GH), not given like candy to small hand guns.

This is why, BTW, I find all the people trying to invent primaris conspiracy to be so funny - GW would sure sell a lot more of them, if proliferation of D2 weapons didn't made them so bad, and if their expensive melee HQs (like fist captain) weren't stuck with single shot plasma pistol you can't swap that instantly kills your warlord if you try to overload it to actually deal any damage. You'd think that if the FUD was real in any way the rules wouldn't be constantly stacked in every possible way against the new faction (which has side effect of killing terminator and other elite units sales...).

And eh, the most urgent fix CPs need is the batteries. Make CPs only work for the faction of the detachment that generated them and I feel most problems with them will disappear.

I am not surprised in the slightest.

Making those changes suggested would mean they had to put the models second in their design decisions. They clearly don't want to consider certain decreases or nerfs as it would invalidate some previous design decisions.

Or it could be they just didn't think about the tournament scene.

 Ordana wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Errata are for established rules getting tweaked, generally. Last CA a number of FAQs came out alongside. We'll have to see if the same thing happens here.

Last year a bunch of faq's come out with CA because they hadn't moved to the 2x Faq per year schedule right?
I would not expect faq's this time.

You could be right. Won't be long either way.

No, I'm not surprised at all.

That a lot of you worked yourselves into a frenzy about xyz happening & got your hopes crushed is highly amusing to me though.
Oh well, it'll surely all come true in the next FAQ, won't it?

When the Big FAQ dropped, everyone expected points drops and GW repeatedly stated that was going to be covered by Chapter Approved.

Not sure why anyone expected rules errata to be in CA.

If anything, changes to gameplay would be seen in modified mission rules, which is sort of what we got.

I think there are more changes than people really think going on - admittedly not stated outright in Chapter Approved.

The missions, for example, in Chapter Approve change the entire way the game is played more or less. Likewise, the specialist detachments in the upcoming Vigilus book include stratagems which affect Space Marine vehicles of certain types, etc. I don't think we'll see the full change until a couple of tournaments and a couple hundred battle reports go by.

I am 100% not surprised by the lack of army tweaks CA. They gave us exactly what they said they would and exactly what they gave us last year. Everyone wishing for otherwise was setting themselves up for disappointment.

It is interesting that there are no changes to codexes for the April to June releases (Drukhari, Deathwatch, Harlequins, and Imperial Knights) except for those that fall in line with other codexes (Deathwatch and Space Wolves get the same changes as Space Marines). That puts CA a full 6 months behind the meta when it comes to changes.

No one here wants to believe how long it actually takes to produce, translate, and ship a book worldwide.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that Dark Eldar didn't get nerfed into the ground and just how many points drops my Death Guard got. I expected Dark Eldar to become at least unplayable.

Custodes, still no points drops for my FW hover tanks.

Land Raiders, still pretty useless.

GK, I just feel bad for these guys.

Cultists are 5 points but Guard are 4? In what fething world does this even remotely make sense? Just adjust the keywords on cultists, it's not hard. They aren't a 5 point model.


All in all. Hack job. But, it's GW and I'm used to it by now.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Cultists are 5 points but Guard are 4? In what fething world does this even remotely make sense? Just adjust the keywords on cultists, it's not hard. They aren't a 5 point model.

Maybe they're just trolling all of you who think you know how to properly stat this game better than they do.

ccs wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Cultists are 5 points but Guard are 4? In what fething world does this even remotely make sense? Just adjust the keywords on cultists, it's not hard. They aren't a 5 point model.

Maybe they're just trolling all of you who think you know how to properly stat this game better than they do.

Do explain how a Cultist is worth a 25% increase over a Guardsmen. Please, enlighten us.

ccs wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Cultists are 5 points but Guard are 4? In what fething world does this even remotely make sense? Just adjust the keywords on cultists, it's not hard. They aren't a 5 point model.

Maybe they're just trolling all of you who think you know how to properly stat this game better than they do.

Well knowing better than gw designers is pretty low bar...trained monkev could do it

 Crimson Devil wrote:
No one here wants to believe how long it actually takes to produce, translate, and ship a book worldwide.

So don't put them in a book?

 JNAProductions wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Cultists are 5 points but Guard are 4? In what fething world does this even remotely make sense? Just adjust the keywords on cultists, it's not hard. They aren't a 5 point model.

Maybe they're just trolling all of you who think you know how to properly stat this game better than they do.

Do explain how a Cultist is worth a 25% increase over a Guardsmen. Please, enlighten us.

In a vacuum it isn't, but when you get to multiply anything you do to them by 40 then it adds up pretty quickly.

Did people forget why conscripts were a pain in the ass? You could take up to 50 of them and rock orders for a billion shots. Then they kicked the max size in the pants and nerfed orders.

Cultists don't have an implicit way to block what makes them good like orders on conscripts.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Cultists are 5 points but Guard are 4? In what fething world does this even remotely make sense? Just adjust the keywords on cultists, it's not hard. They aren't a 5 point model.

Maybe they're just trolling all of you who think you know how to properly stat this game better than they do.

Do explain how a Cultist is worth a 25% increase over a Guardsmen. Please, enlighten us.

In a vacuum it isn't, but when you get to multiply anything you do to them by 40 then it adds up pretty quickly.

Did people forget why conscripts were a pain in the ass? You could take up to 50 of them and rock orders for a billion shots. Then they kicked the max size in the pants and nerfed orders.

Cultists don't have an implicit way to block what makes them good like orders on conscripts.

Of course they do, remove the heretic astartes key word and suddenly they become 4pt nobodies who can't fire twice or get +1 to wound.