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2018/12/13 20:49:10
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/13/13th-dec-wrath-and-rapture-the-daemons-of-khornegw-homepage-post-3/
As far as I can see, Bloodletters have taken quite the hefty nerf, perhaps signaling that the initial wording on Decapitating strike was a mistake? Or just more powerful than intended.
Previously, every 6+ To Hit was dealt as a Mortal Wound instead of rolling to wound. Modifiers would apply to this roll, with positive hit modifiers making them quite powerful for dishing out mortal wounds.
With this rule update, it's changed to Unmodified To-Hit-Rolls of 6 dishing out a Mortal Wound in addition to any other damage inflicted.
Would still having the potential 'normal' damage from getting the 6 to hit balance out losing Modifiers working on their Mortal wound output, but 'losing' the rest of that attack? First glance makes me see it as a nerf to a particular strategy, but making normal Bloodletters more reliable against Negative Hit Modifiers, and not as reliant on buffing or running them in max units.
Opinions and thoughts?
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Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 |
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2018/12/13 21:10:31
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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Most abilities that previously triggered on a 6+ have been changed to trigger on an unmodified 6. We should have been expecting this. If you're currently using any model with a similar ability, expect this change in the future. GW seems to be trying to de-emphasize stacking modifiers, and I feel like that's a good thing.
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2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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2018/12/13 21:52:30
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
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For sure it's a trend I've been noticing as well, and is over all good for the gameplay.
I'm imagining though, that we'll be seeing less max-units of Bloodletters, since the incentive to use them in hordes is lower.
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Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 |
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2018/12/13 22:19:26
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Clousseau
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Anything that shifts a min/max crutch away is a good thing IMO.
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2018/12/13 23:08:03
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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Hope this makes it's way to the Blighted Weapons
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BlaxicanX wrote:A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
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2018/12/14 00:50:57
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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Conversely, negative modifiers from enemies won't make it impossible to get the 6s though. I played vs a Death army once with a Mourngul and 2 other - hit effects. Really REALLY stale circus peanuts in that game.
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2018/12/18 14:33:48
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait
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Yes we lose stacking modifiers for auto mortal wound.
We gain - 6's for MW AND the attack carries on to wound/ potentially cause another wound so each BL can potentially do 2 damage, immunity to -modifiers negating our precious MWs.
I call it a fair trade personally.
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2018/12/22 19:04:21
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Monstrous Master Moulder
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Indeed, this change is one that can neither be classed as a buff or a nerf.
Nighthaunt units "suffered" the same fate (such as the spirit hosts). They still kick out lots of MWs btw, it just doesn't go overboard and they don't hit like wet noodles now when there's a debuff. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... |
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2018/12/24 14:17:47
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Clousseau
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Did they change the points in this box set. Apparently they did. Thats nice of them to change points around outside of the ghb and not let anyone know unless you buy some side box lol.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/24 14:38:35
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2018/12/24 17:03:25
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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GW only changes points in GHB, auticus complains about them only balancing the game once a year. GW changes points between GHBs, auticus complains about them balancing outside the place he expects them to.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/24 17:03:41
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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2018/12/24 19:45:45
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Clousseau
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I'll take that as a yes, they made changes to points outside of any faq or errata. That was fun to have sprung up on.
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2018/12/25 09:21:44
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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To be fair they have the capacity to repoint units monthly now since they have their own Warscroll Builder.
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2018/12/25 14:11:47
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Clousseau
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They do. But they don't. Except now they've set the precedence that they will if they release a box. I wouldn't have really cared either way to be honest except that there is nothing that signals that points were changed and that players needed to go adjust their information. There should have been an FAQ or Errata article stating that the matched play points of the units in the new box have changed.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/25 14:51:35
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2019/01/01 22:38:51
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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I would be pretty happy if blightkings went this way. Of course they do not have easy access to hit bonuses, but for me the trade off is totally worth not being neutered by hit penalties.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2019/01/26 08:49:56
Subject: Re:Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Fixture of Dakka
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So what do Bloodletters cost now (in Wrath)?
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2019/01/26 16:25:08
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Clousseau
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I dont think we're allowed to post point costs here. However GW endorses the warscroll builder on their own community site which has their points listed up there.
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2019/01/27 04:52:24
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Fixture of Dakka
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auticus wrote:I dont think we're allowed to post point costs here. However GW endorses the warscroll builder on their own community site which has their points listed up there.
So this section of Dakka is runs differently than the 40k sections? Or is the 40ksectin is the anomaly? Because 40k pts are freely bitched about all the time & nothing happens to anyone.
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2019/01/27 09:10:50
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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They were 100 for 10.
Now 120/320 for 10/30
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Oli: Can I be an orc?
Everyone: No.
Oli: But it fits through the doors, Look! |
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2019/01/30 22:40:56
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Oh. So no difference to me. That's what they cost in GHB'18. What's Auticus going on about them changing pts outside the GHB?
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2019/01/30 23:35:28
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Clousseau
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They changed points for things in the slaanesh / khorne box. ex: GHB 18 says Blood Crushers are 150 points, but the box set knocked them down to 140 pts.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/30 23:42:31
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2019/01/31 00:33:14
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Good, bloodcrushers were a bit crummy.
I think that bloodletters, like plaguebearers, should ideally be 120/200/320 for 10/20/30 so I'm reasonably OK with the cost; just never take units of 20.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2019/01/31 06:53:43
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Please bring this to the Blightkings any time now GW.
Us Nurgle devotees are waiting!
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2019/01/31 19:44:38
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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NinthMusketeer wrote:Good, bloodcrushers were a bit crummy.
I think that bloodletters, like plaguebearers, should ideally be 120/200/320 for 10/20/30 so I'm reasonably OK with the cost; just never take units of 20.
Never take 20 is presumably because there\s some cutoff that makes them unviable? Seeing they are at their cheapest at 20 strong going lot more expensive at units of 10 and slightly more expensive at 30
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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2019/01/31 20:09:04
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Clousseau
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Their synergy is maximized at 30. You get +1 to hit as long as they have 20 or more models.
If you take 20 models once you lose 1 model you lose that. If you take 30 models not only do you get the discount, you get +1 to hit until you lose 11 models.
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2019/01/31 20:11:51
Subject: Potential Bloodletter Nerf in Wrath & Rapture - Bloodletter Bomb gone?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Well each bloodletter is worth about 9 points for showing up. But the command group is worth about 20 points; so 110 for a 10-man unit and 200 for a 20-man (ok it's not 120 but close enough). However at 20+ models bloodletter units get +1 to hit. This means bloodletters beyond that are worth more since their weapon profile is better; so about 12 points apiece instead. Thus 200 for the first 20, 12 pts a model after that. And there's no need for a horde discount because those extras in the back still ensure bloodletters 1-19 get +1 to hit.
Or in short; the size-based bonus of the warscroll means a max unit out performs the same number of models split into smaller units.
There are a number of units like this, where the benefit is so significant that not only is there no need for a horde discount but the larger sizes should actually cost more. Skeletons may be the most extreme; try pitting one 40-man unit against two 20-man units and be amused by the one-sided carnage in favor of the cheaper option.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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