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Didn't see anything similar since 2009, so I figured I start a new one.
Which is better? Both are AP-2 D:1. Axe is +1S, LC is reroll wounds

Axe is also half the cost of a single LC and doesn't seem to require further investment to get the most out of it (i.e 2 LCs to gain +1Atk)
So the Axe gives the model the advantage of getting a free hand for Combi-weapons or SS, rather than fully going 2 LCs

The more I think about it, the more I am questioning the point of LCs at all. Besides looking cool.
I mean, if the weilder is S4, the LC gets a *slightly* bigger bonus vs anything T3 or lower & T6-7. But anything T4 or T8, the Axe gets similar odds against
But is that it?

What am I missing?

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Lightning claws are pretty nice depending on the unit that takes them, but they are a specialty thing. Some units, like assault terminators, dont have many choices. Myself i take 4 th/ss and a srg with lighting claws on mine the few times i actually take them.

However in most cases the axe is just superior. As you pointed out they are easier to use and allow more flexability on the unit.

So what i always figure is if my model already has an invunerable (like a captain) then putting dual claws works well. Anyone else who needs that second hand free grab an axe.

Nightlords like Claws and they have a pretty nice LC relic.

Thanx. I was working out the loadout for a unit of Vanguard Vets and I kept wanting LCs to be the primary melee weapon for the unit, but Axes just seem the better choice, especially since I also want SS on at least half the unit.
Still might want to have 1 or 2 models with dual LC, but any with SS should probably have an Axe.

With the changes to the "to wound" chart from previous editions, it also matters a little bit who the model is fighting. I mean a S4 model with a power axe fighting a T4 model will do better with his to wound rolls than if he was armed with a LC. I'm no statistics expert, but I dunno if the +1 to wound is better than the re-roll? That being said, a S4 model with a power axe fighting a T3 model will get more benefit from the lighting claw, as he's wounding on a 3+ regardless, but will now benefit from the re-roll. Of course against a T2 model, BOTH are wounding on a 2+, so it seems like the claw is obviously better. However when going up against higher toughness, say a T5 model, I'd rather be wounding on a 4+ than having a re-roll on the 5+ to wound...

 Raichase wrote:
With the changes to the "to wound" chart from previous editions, it also matters a little bit who the model is fighting. I mean a S4 model with a power axe fighting a T4 model will do better with his to wound rolls than if he was armed with a LC. I'm no statistics expert, but I dunno if the +1 to wound is better than the re-roll? That being said, a S4 model with a power axe fighting a T3 model will get more benefit from the lighting claw, as he's wounding on a 3+ regardless, but will now benefit from the re-roll. Of course against a T2 model, BOTH are wounding on a 2+, so it seems like the claw is obviously better. However when going up against higher toughness, say a T5 model, I'd rather be wounding on a 4+ than having a re-roll on the 5+ to wound...

A reroll is better than a +1 except when you're facing a 6+ roll, in which case the +1 is better. A rerolling 5+ is better than a 4+, a rerolling 4+ is better than a 3+. However, the flat roll has the advantage that you can buff it with other sources (Like a Lieutenant) or use a Command Point, while the reroll is already being modified and can't often be buffed further.

Indeed LCs do seem to be better on their own and benefit even more by having 2. But they are also 2-3x more expensive than an Axe.
So I see the Axe as "close enough" to be mixed in with a unit with LCs for similar damage output, but be somewhat expendable as first casualties.

Part of the problem is that claws are currently overpriced. They really should have received at least a 1-2 point reduction now that PFs and Relic blades are just 9 points. Having them cost 6/9 or 7/10 would be much more reasonable compared to other offerings in my opinion.

Claws are overcosted, no doubt about that. They should be 7/10 at most.

Instead of an Axe I’d prefer a sword.

LCs are overcosted, a single Claw should costs like a sword, and a pair a half more. 4/6 would be statistically justified in comparison with a power sword

Sorry, necroposting

 Galef wrote:

I mean, if the weilder is S4, the LC gets a *slightly* bigger bonus vs anything T3 or lower & T6-7. But anything T4 or T8, the Axe gets similar odds against
But is that it?

What am I missing?

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VS T8-T9 it's 30.5% vs 33%. Power axe slight advantage
VS T10+ claw obviously better but those are rare
T6-T7 it's 55% vs 33% claw favour
T5 it's 55% vs 50% claw favour
T4 it's 75% vs 66% claw favour
T3 it's 8/9 vs 6/9 claw favour
T2 and it's 35/36 vs 30/36 claw favour

So only target axe is actually better is T8-T9. Of course whether that's big enough. Price vs better damage. Biggest advantage will be actually vs T4 targets.

Twin attack thing is bit of fallacy. Yes you get extra attack. You also pay for more. Just because you can get extra attack by paying more doesn't mean you have to do it.

Why still discussing the axe or claw? Take a fist instead , it is So cheap now.

It depends what you have the weapon on and if you already have re-roll 1's aura.


Out of 100 hitting attacks, needing a 5 to wound with re-rolls is 55 wounds, needing a 4 is 50 wounds. So its a minor buff, having the +1 str could make a 6+ to a 5+ tho, which is important, also if you have a Re-roll wounds of 1, the Axe will always be better but very little.

For SoB i was taking Axes, bc Str 3 sucks.