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Who was the best Joker ever? What exactly makes a good joker? Should Heath Ledger have actually won an Oscar? What does any of this have to do with Captain Marvel?

 Formosa wrote:

For someone denouncing the worth of an Oscar, your sure seem picky who gets them

well yeah, I love the idea of giving awards when they are earned properly, people should get praised for spectacular work, and sadly heath ledgers joker is not that, it was good as ive said multiple times, but not the highest form of excellence which is what the Oscars is supposed to be for.

Can you even name the other nominees from that year without looking it up? I'm pretty sure Ledger's is the only one people are still making memes with.

yep

Robert downey Jr
Thanos
Michael Shannon from shape of water, man of steel and revolutionary road, not really around much at the moment.
Philip seymour hoffman, who died, but was still making movies up to his death.

So Thanos and RDJ are still kicking around and going strong, michael shannon has kind of dropped off in the last year or so and philip seymour hoffman is dead

OK, so first off, I don't believe you that you knew the nominees from the best supporting actor from the Academy Awards a decade ago without looking it up. I truly doubt the attendees of the 2009 Academy awards remember with out looking it up. I question whether Robert Downey Jr even remembers he was nominated. So, lets break it down more:

Josh Brolin – Milk as Dan White
Robert Downey Jr. – Tropic Thunder as Kirk Lazarus
Philip Seymour Hoffman – Doubt as Father Brendan Flynn
Michael Shannon – Revolutionary Road as John Givings Jr.

These are all great actors. I'm not going to dispute that. However, was each one of them an academy award winning performance in those roles? I would argue no. Only Phillip Seymour Hoffman even came close, having seen those performances. He doesn't have to have given the best acting performance of all time, he needs to have given the best acting performance in that year as compared to those other nominees, and I think he did that. I think the Joker was a tour de force, honestly.

*mumble mumble* Bad Actress *mumble mumble* /s

*plants banner defiantly* But Heath Ledger was the best Joker and you are all just whiners.

Cesar Romero. Knows he's a campy villain. Yes, for Brokeback Mountain. Comic Book Nerds have far ranging opinions.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
*mumble mumble* Bad Actress *mumble mumble* /s

Why won't she smile more?

Anyway, I would say that Heath Ledger was the best so far, and then I would go Mark Hamill and Jack Nicholson. I don't remember the Cesar Romero one very well, I only watched the show when I was a kid.

She'd make a terrible Joker.

 Ouze wrote:
What does any of this have to do with Captain Marvel?

After plumbing the depths of 9gag and reddit, I’ve found a subset of people who believe that Brie Larson and Heath Ledger look alike. Mayhaps people are subconciously bringing up The Joker in a Captain Marvel movie thread because they perceive a resemblance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/9144qq/the_brie_larsonheath_ledger_resemblance/

https://9gag.com/gag/am8K3pv/brie-larson-and-heath-ledger


Don’t see it personally, but maybe this will help answer your question and bring peace to your soul. God bless.

I probably appreciate the Hamil more for being the Joker than Luke Skywalker. That laugh is the laugh I always think of when thinking of Joker. Even as mediocre as I found the film adaptation of the Killing Joke, I still can't knock Hamil's performance.

I will say I've never appreciated Nicholson's bit as the character, but maybe that's an age thing. I've never appreciated the older Batman films and have never really gotten in synch with what others like about it so much.

What does any of this have to do with Captain Marvel?

Gotta introduce some chaos to the system?

Ledger's Joker sounded like Stuart Smiley, and smiley is what Brie Larson needs to be--Captain Marvel is a Joker origin movie!

 Ouze wrote:
Josh Brolin – Milk as Dan White
Robert Downey Jr. – Tropic Thunder as Kirk Lazarus
Philip Seymour Hoffman – Doubt as Father Brendan Flynn
Michael Shannon – Revolutionary Road as John Givings Jr.

I feel like the only performances from this list anyone really remembers are RDJ and Ledger, the former because his role in Tropic Thunder was basically the only great thing in the move and the later because his role made the movie great. I barely remember Doubt at all, and I've never seen Revolutionary Road so I won't comment. I personally don't find Josh Brolin's role in Milk as worthy of nomination for... anything really. I don't remember the entire movie as being very memorable.

I think to be fair, I remember commentary about Russel Crowe's 2000 win for best actor over Tom Hanks drawing controversy at the time, and people commented that votes swung for Crowe because voters thought he'd earned an award even if Hank's performance in Cast Away was slightly better than the performance in Gladiator, simply because Hanks had already received the award twice.

So maybe his death played a role in making that final stretch. IDK, it's absolutely bonkers to me for anyone to ever say that his performance in the Dark Knight wasn't worthy of such an award. It most certainly was by any standard.

OK, so first off, I don't believe you that you knew the nominees from the best supporting actor from the Academy Awards a decade ago without looking it up. I truly doubt the attendees of the 2009 Academy awards remember with out looking it up. I question whether Robert Downey Jr even remembers he was nominated. So, lets break it down more:

tough luck I suppose, and yes I did remember it, i remembered it because I have had this exact discussion with many people many time, dont believe me... meh

Josh Brolin – Milk as Dan White

nope

Robert Downey Jr. – Tropic Thunder as Kirk Lazarus

yep

Philip Seymour Hoffman – Doubt as Father Brendan Flynn

nope

Michael Shannon – Revolutionary Road as John Givings Jr.

nope

and the person i mentioned earlier who was a supporting actor but they put him in the wrong category

frank langella, michael sheen was the lead actor of that film if you watch it, frank langella was what made the movie and his performance was leaps and bounds better than ledgers.

These are all great actors. I'm not going to dispute that. However, was each one of them an academy award winning performance in those roles? I would argue no. Only Phillip Seymour Hoffman even came close, having seen those performances. He doesn't have to have given the best acting performance of all time, he needs to have given the best acting performance in that year as compared to those other nominees, and I think he did that. I think the Joker was a tour de force, honestly.

you know i already conceded that the pickings were a bit thin right? did you read my previous posts?

for me the best supporting actors were RDJ for a frankly absurd, risky and excellent performance in tropic thunder, a movie if made now would be .... well I am sure you know, and frank langella as Richard Nixon, the sheer emotion he brought to that roll and gravitas, its still one of my favourite films and i continue to watch it when Batman has fallen by the wayside and I am a comic book nerd.

Did you just use the word 'gravitas' in a non-joking manner?

 Alpharius wrote:
Did you just use the word 'gravitas' in a non-joking manner?

Yarp, and in the right context to boot

Kudos!

I salute you!

So, is this a Joker thread, or a thinly veiled excuse to gak on people who weren't convinced by the first Captain Marvel trailer? Hah, just kidding, it's obvious

Heath Ledger best Joker. Awesome performance.

I really love Jack Nicholson’s Joker.

On topic for a change for me, I would have loved to see Willem Defoe play the joker, but my favourite depiction of joker is still make hamills, perfect mix of menace and humour

 Ouze wrote:
Who was the best Joker ever? What exactly makes a good joker? Should Heath Ledger have actually won an Oscar? What does any of this have to do with Captain Marvel?

Well he was one of the better things in an prety awful film.

Was he the best Joker? - well not for me - but I guess him dying made the oscar inevitable, deserved or not.

My favourite Joker was and is Jack's portrayal in Tim Burtons version, but I also have liked pretty much everyone who have acted as him often in very different ways - I like the most recent incaranation more than Heath Ledgers in fact as IMO the HL one was simply not insane or dangerous enough - he just came across as a terrorist with some bad make up, a scar and super precog abilities.

Not that any of that was bad but just not the Joker - for me anyway

Jack Nicholson for me.

Bearing in mind that before him, Joker in the public consciousness was Caeser Romero. Still a fine turn, but the character had moved on since then.

Nicholson's Joker kept much of the whimsy, but crudely nailed it to madness and cruelty. It made his portrayal unpredictable, and more threatening for it.

But I am confident when I say I feel we can all unite behind Jared Leto as being the absolute nadir of Joker. Just.....awful.

Jared Leto - prove me wrong !

 Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Jared Leto - prove me wrong !

Personally I find it hard to judge his performance one way or the other.

Suicide Squad was such a mess on every level, it almost doesn't seem to fair to critique the performance of the cast. There was nothing any of them could do to have made that movie better or worse imo. The only person I think anything can be said about is Margot Robbie, who I think nailed Harley fairly well despite the awful script and crap direction she had to work with. Enough that she stood out in the messy heap of the final product.

He has no screen presence.

He exudes no charisma.

He exudes no menace.

He's just some goon doing a bad cosplay.

Mark Hamill
Heath Ledger
Caesar Romero
Jack Nicholson
Guy who did Joker in Injustice game
Jared Leto


Now, Jack and Caesar are right below Heath's performance, and the Injustice role wasn't bad either, but Leto is far below. He wasn't the worst thing in the world. But he's failing against the competition.

Other than the fact that I HATED the Jared Leto Joker (Joker must be funny. There was no funny in his performance), I think that Mark Hamill, Heath Ledger, Caesar Romero, and Jack Nicholson all did great jobs. They all made the Joker a great villain. Heath Ledger's performance was masterful and he totally deserved the Oscar.

I'm gonna go with Jack Nicholson. I likes Heath's joker a lot, but Jack just felt more "jokery" to me.

So ... is the captain marvel girl playing a female joker in some new move? Isn't Harley Quinn already basically the female joker?

Harley's been separated from the Joker for a few years now. DC's been pushing her hard as an anti-hero type character for a while.

For me personally its;

Hamil
Romero,
Nicholson,
Joker from Beware the Batman,
Classic Joker from Brave and the Bold,
Ledger,
then Leto.

 Formosa wrote:
On topic for a change for me, I would have loved to see Willem Defoe play the joker, but my favourite depiction of joker is still make hamills, perfect mix of menace and humour

I totally agree. I think Willem Dafoe would have been an absolutely amazing Joker and wish he wouldn't have been squandered on the Green Goblin instead.

He wasnt really squandered. He played an excellent green goblin. They just wasted his real life goblin face by putting it in that bizarre helmet.

I'd say they squandered an excellent Green Goblin in a "just okay" Spider-Man film.

The reason I like Jack best is, I can eqaully well imagine his Joker murdering me as telling me a joke I’d really laugh at — and what really seals it, I can imagine him doing the latter and then immediately the former.