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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Given that nobody seems to have played Dogs of War back in 5E, and therefore, doesn't know how Dogs of War are supposed to work, I think I'm going to look into creating an Army Book that updates the Dogs of War Army Book to 6E using 5E as its baseline:

Characters
* Generic Lords & Heroes
* optional Paymaster (BSB)

Core
* human Regiments of Renown (i.e. Pikemen, Crossbowmen, Cavalry & Duellists)

Special
* demi-human Regiments of Renown (e.g. Elves, Halflings, Ogres, Orks)

Rare
* non-human Regiments of Renown (e.g. Giants, Dragons, Skeletons, Gargoyles)
* War Machines

Special Characters
* from the 5E Army Book (e.g. Miragliano, Mydas, Belladonna)


5E differences
* 6E cost baseline
* 6E structure - Lords / Core / Special / Rare minimums & restrictions vs 5E ratios

6E differences
* No generic units - every unit ties to a Regiment of Renown, and one is not allowed to take units without a Renowed Captain
* Splinters - instead of Empire Detachments, most Dogs of War have the ability to take "splinters" of Captained Regiments as additional units. Each splinter would be up to half the size of the Captained unit, operating independently, and with it's own Command. For example, a player fielding Braganza's Besiegers could field splinters of Besiegers similarly with Crossbow and Pavise, or a player fielding Voland's Ventors could field splinters of heavy cavalry Venators. This provides the functional ability to field additional units that retain the feel and function of a Regiment of Renown without duplicating the Captain leading the Regiment.
* Cost - units will enjoy "bulk pricing" where the cost reflects the utility of the fixed Command bundle, rather than assuming it's an optimal a la carte configuration.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/30 21:23:45


   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





USA

GW updated the rules for Dogs of War for 6th. They were printed in White Dwarf and Warhammer Chronicles multiple times. They included rules for generic units, characters, Special Characters, and the Regiments of Renown. You can play exactly as you want to in 6th using official rules, just only take Regiments of Renown and Special Characters.

It's time to go full Skeletor  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

I own all of those things. I am well aware of the hack job that GW did, how it does a poor job of capturing the essence of what a Dogs of War army should be for someone who remembers DoW during 5E (and before!).

If you had read what I wrote, you'd have understood that my thought is to write a proper 6E Dogs of War Army Book that does NOT allow a player to take any generic units.

   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





USA

Dogs of War was very limited in 5th ed. If anything the 6th ed rules expanded them. In 5th all you basically had was Regiments of Renown and some characters. The 6th ed rules allowed larger and more flexible lists to be made. I remember full well 5th ed, I am by no means a GW fanboy but the 6th ed rules were anything but a "hack job". They made a very flat army actually playable.

Also the 5th ed book wasn't even out that long. It was released in the summer of 1998 and 6th dropped in fall of 2000.

Being able to take multiple units of the same Regiments of Renown doesn't fall in line with their fluff very well. The key idea of them is you have these famous Regiments that are constantly moving from army to army at the highest bidder.

To each their own. I wish you luck, but I don't think what you have in mind will lead to a very playable list.

It's time to go full Skeletor  
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




Ah, that PDF copy of the good old Dogs of War Codex.

Being a child of the Grudgebringer Cavalry School, I was terribly passionate about my dogs of war and played them religiously, long after their codex came out when it was passably okay, and long into the point where it was utterly unplayable.

Pikemen were terribly overcosted, what was it, 10 points a model of a light armoured dude with a slightly better spear? Statistically if you charged 10 empire knights into a block of 20 pikemen, the pikemen would kill a grand total of 1, lose like 5, fail moral, and get run down. You gone done Pikes wrong if the ideal thing to charge them with is cavalry.

To be a little more on point, I loved the generic units - It allowed you to create your _own_ mercenary army, and stories and famous units. If I could change anything it might have been to give them a few more options, like the pikemen the oppertunity to take crossbows in the front rank.
I might also have made their unit champions a touch tougher, rather than the generic 1 attack.

But it was really nice to have some unique units. The Halfling Hotpot - One of our best units, ironically, the Paymasters Bodyguard, and the Light Cav were all units you never saw before, after, or since.

Good times.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I own all of those things. I am well aware of the hack job that GW did, how it does a poor job of capturing the essence of what a Dogs of War army should be for someone who remembers DoW during 5E (and before!).

If you had read what I wrote, you'd have understood that my thought is to write a proper 6E Dogs of War Army Book that does NOT allow a player to take any generic units.


Yeah like just about everyone else, I'll chime in and say no generics = no interest. The 5E "vision" of DoW fitted with 5th's "all Big Damn Heroes, all the time" overall tone, but that's not 6th, and it's not why most folk who choose 6th as their retro-edition do so.

GW's effort was shonky and could do with a thorough balance pass, but the generics are a positive edition, doubly so these days when the original Renowned models are often hard to come by at reasonable prices.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Dogs of War was very limited in 5th ed. If anything the 6th ed rules expanded them.

Being able to take multiple units of the same Regiments of Renown doesn't fall in line with their fluff very well. The key idea of them is you have these famous Regiments that are constantly moving from army to army at the highest bidder.

I don't think what you have in mind will lead to a very playable list.


The 6E rules made bland armies possible, to the point one might as well be playing generic historicals, or Empire without gunpowder. That was a HUGE mistake.

Taking multiple units fits far better than the alternative. You hire Voland who happens to have a huge number of Venators, and he splits his force, personally leading the largest contingent, and having one of his best men lead the smaller group. As opposed to just finding a group of heavy cavalry without a leader of any significance - that's far worse.

If the points are done correctly, the list is playable. Even if not done correctly, the list is still playable, but not competitive or balanced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Pikemen were terribly overcosted, what was it, 10 points a model of a light armoured dude with a slightly better spear?

To be a little more on point, I loved the generic units - It allowed you to create your _own_ mercenary army, and stories and famous units.

I might also have made their unit champions a touch tougher, rather than the generic 1 attack.


Yeah, basic Pikemen started at 10 points each, like elite infantry. Not priced well at all, when Empire Spearmen were like 6 pts base - Pikemen were nowhere near worth that much.

I have several "count as" Regiments of my own, so I don't see the issue with creating my own army. I'm especially happy with my count as Giants of Albion.

If you want tougher unit Champions, DoW have a particular way to do that...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 18:45:28


   
Made in ca
Hungry Ghoul





Ontario

Would be cool if charging with cavalry into spears, halberds, or pikes caused impact hit for the horses etc.

all rules made bland armies possible, all you have to do is pick badly. the biggest bland issue i have with old tournament lists is no special characters, always felt like a unnecessary nerf, especially in 6th when they were toned down to be relatively balanced (minus thorek 6.5, but thankfully our dwarf player despises the anvil in general)

DoW list in 6th works decently enough, I would tone down the cost on the pikemen to be in line with other army's basic troops, 9 points each or something. It's an army built on characters, with no options per character, but a lot of power if used right.

Vampire Counts 12,000 pts Tomb Kings 5,000 pts
Skaven 9,500 pts Ogre Kingdoms 7,000 pts
High Elves 8,800 pts
Bretonnia 8,000 pts
Empire 7,500 pts Lizardmen 6,000 pts
Dwarfs 10,000 pts Chaos 18,500 pts
Wood Elves 10,000 pts Dark Elves 7,000 pts
Orcs and Goblins 9,500 pts Dogs of War 5,000 pts.  
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

Why would you want to field a mercenary army and not field any mercenaries?

Fielding only Regiments of Renown and named heroes is like the core of the awful Herohammer 4th/5th editions...


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Yodhrin wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I own all of those things. I am well aware of the hack job that GW did, how it does a poor job of capturing the essence of what a Dogs of War army should be for someone who remembers DoW during 5E (and before!).

If you had read what I wrote, you'd have understood that my thought is to write a proper 6E Dogs of War Army Book that does NOT allow a player to take any generic units.


Yeah like just about everyone else, I'll chime in and say no generics = no interest. The 5E "vision" of DoW fitted with 5th's "all Big Damn Heroes, all the time" overall tone, but that's not 6th, and it's not why most folk who choose 6th as their retro-edition do so.

GW's effort was shonky and could do with a thorough balance pass, but the generics are a positive edition, doubly so these days when the original Renowned models are often hard to come by at reasonable prices.


That's fine, you and the others can play the official list that contains generics. I'd be writing it for me.

I almost certainly spent *more* on some on my "count as" RoR than the originals. My Giants of Albion started as a couple of 2nd ed Keepers of Secrets. My "count as" Golfag's Ogres are all based on Undead Nightmare mounts (for Melkhior and the Blood Dragon). It's less of a money thing than a looks thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 judgedoug wrote:
Why would you want to field a mercenary army and not field any mercenaries?

Fielding only Regiments of Renown and named heroes is like the core of the awful Herohammer 4th/5th editions...


Regiments of Renows are mercenaries.

RoR have character.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 19:10:10


   
 
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