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So,

I am building a 1k pt army of DW, and I'm having difficulty with my 3rd HQ. I want to add a Librarian for the Psychic abilities, but I can't see a major difference between a Reg Librarian and a Primaris one? The Primaris one actually seems to cost more for less utility. No option for Terminator armor, no weapons to choose from, no Jump pack. Besides the Psychic hood difference, is there any reason to choose a primaris Librarian over a regular? Come to notice, the Primaris Watch captains are crap too. They can't take any of the DW weapons...

I must be missing something.

I believe that they have +1 wound and attack but that's just from memory.

When you think about it, how necessary is Terminator Armor as an option anyway? Your opponent is gonna throw multi-damage weapons at an HQ, and a Primaris Librarian has an extra wound, plus is more combat oriented.

Unless you are MAKING the Librarian Deep Strike, or using him with speed to suicide a Null Zone, there's really no argument against a Primaris version of them.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So,

I am building a 1k pt army of DW, and I'm having difficulty with my 3rd HQ. I want to add a Librarian for the Psychic abilities, but I can't see a major difference between a Reg Librarian and a Primaris one? The Primaris one actually seems to cost more for less utility. No option for Terminator armor, no weapons to choose from, no Jump pack. Besides the Psychic hood difference, is there any reason to choose a primaris Librarian over a regular? Come to notice, the Primaris Watch captains are crap too. They can't take any of the DW weapons...

I must be missing something.

GW wants to sell clam pack characters and that means having Primaris have little to no options. Compared to the older marine range, they only have one, maybe two builds for characters.

Well, your libby is probably rocking might of heroes. If he survives to endgame, a primaris libby is quite a bit better in CC: with MoH up he's 5A 5W 5T 5S, which has a nice ring to it.

However for DW I'd rather have an oldskool libby because you can strap an SIA SB on him and add to the fun.

All the librarian options have there place, they do different things.

Basic libby - cheapest or most mobile if you give him a jump pack.

Terminator - Toughest (he has an extra wound and 2+/5++) and can deepstrike.

Primaris - Best stats (+1w & A) but least options and can only use the repulsor as transport.


Overall I like the terminator but it really depends on what you want him to do and what you are pairing him with. Running a load of primaris and repulsors then likely the primaris is best. Want him to follow around a fast assault unit as support then go for the jump pack. Need him to survivable and help hold the centre of your army or appear to support other deepstriking elements then its the terminator for you. Basic backfield support will likely want the bare bones normal libby.

I'd go with the regular Librarian. He gets a wider range of weapon options, including the storm bolter, which is pretty much a must-take. He's also slightly cheaper. The extra stats on the Primaris aren't that important for a character who shouldn't be getting targeted much. It matters for Might of Heroes, but I often cast that on a different model anyway.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
When you think about it, how necessary is Terminator Armor as an option anyway? Your opponent is gonna throw multi-damage weapons at an HQ, and a Primaris Librarian has an extra wound, plus is more combat oriented.

Unless you are MAKING the Librarian Deep Strike, or using him with speed to suicide a Null Zone, there's really no argument against a Primaris version of them.

A terminator librarian has the extra wound and an invul save, no? Also a storm bolter, and deep strike is usually quite useful too.

I use one because I have the cool space hulk sculpt, but I'd use him anyway.

I have an extra question for OP. Just because I am curious, why having 3 HQ in a DW 1K army? Spending near 300 points im a 1K army only in HQ. This is only my opinion about this.

Between the Librarians I would just take the straight one because of SIA.

For me, no Jump pack option = not a valid HQ. But that is mostly personal preference. The only exceptions I will make to this is strictly support Characters with amazing passive abilities, or that are integral to the army to function.

Watch Masters, for example, do not have a Jump option, but because they give a reroll ALL fail hits aura and make swapping Mission Tactics cost 1 less CP. Make them WL with Vigilance Incarnate & Tome of Ectoclades, and a single Watch Master fills a very specific a guaranteed useful role.

Libbies & Captains however, MUST have Jump packs for me. Captains because they need to get into Melee to get the most out of them, Libbies so they can be where they need to be to max range their powers, position for ideal Smites, or even jump into a melee with a weak enemy unit.
Since Primaris Libbies & Capts do nto have this option, they will always be an inferior choice from a tactical flexibility standpoint.

Alex_85 wrote:
I have an extra question for OP. Just because I am curious, why having 3 HQ in a DW 1K army? Spending near 300 points im a 1K army only in HQ. This is only my opinion about this.

Maybe he has a Battalion (2 HQs) and a Spearhead/Vanguard/Outrider (1 HQ)? I could see DW taking Outriders with 3 min units of Bikes
Personally, my list has 2 Battalions, so I need 4 HQs: Watch Master, 2 Smash Capts, 1 Libbie. Everything else is Troops

-

I just like taking extra HQ due to their overall strengths. The Watch master for obvious reasons, the Smash Captain, and then a Libby for psychic defense?

Please bear in mind, this is just the first part of the list. Currently it's about eleven hundred points, the next six hundred will be Heavy support/anti vehicle ( haven't decided what yet) and the last 200 pts will be my old Vindicaire and Culexus. Man it feels good to break out those guys.

Also - I may be terribad at this game. As a matter of opinion, I most likely am. But I enjoy my new guys, and want to make the list not for competitive, but FLG games.

I tend to field a Watch-Master for the aura and a Captain to haul the Dominus Aegis; I find psychic defense kind of overrated (the things that actually screw you tend to be easily cast from outside your deny range (ex. Skyweaver bikes getting move-again off a Shadowseer) or cast by people with abilities that make them really hard to deny (ex. Ahriman under Cabalistic Focus for +3 to cast), and I prefer to minimize HQ expenses in elite armies with expensive units, especially at 1,000pts.

If you really need psychic defense I'd suggest saving 85 reinforcement points for an Assassin once the new rules drop and pulling out a Culexis. Or spend 85pts and an Auxiliary Detachment on Greyfax, who's a lot better at denying than a Librarian (two denies/turn with +1 to deny at all ranges) and has better psychic powers.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I tend to field a Watch-Master for the aura and a Captain to haul the Dominus Aegis; I find psychic defense kind of overrated (the things that actually screw you tend to be easily cast from outside your deny range (ex. Skyweaver bikes getting move-again off a Shadowseer) or cast by people with abilities that make them really hard to deny (ex. Ahriman under Cabalistic Focus for +3 to cast), and I prefer to minimize HQ expenses in elite armies with expensive units, especially at 1,000pts.

If you really need psychic defense I'd suggest saving 85 reinforcement points for an Assassin once the new rules drop and pulling out a Culexis. Or spend 85pts and an Auxiliary Detachment on Greyfax, who's a lot better at denying than a Librarian (two denies/turn with +1 to deny at all ranges) and has better psychic powers.

Thanks for the tips! I had thought about my other half being GMDKs and a squad of paladins, so that makes it a lot simpler.