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Every time the Bullgyrns are mentioned they are always talked about their slab shields forming walls for other troops to hide behind, and the whole point of bullgyrns was to make portable walls so I think the rules for a slab shield should also apply to units that the bullgyrns are in between the unit fired, and firing. Please note that this would only work if the Bullgyrns are in the way so it will have no effect if the enemy unit is to the side of both the guard units.

Enemy unit------------------------------shoots at the infantry squad


Bullgyrn----------------------------------slab shields are in the path of fire and so the infantry squad gets +2 to save rolls
infantry squad--------------------------survives a bit better as the bullgryn shield is in a wall.

Hopefully that rubbish "diagram above helps people understand what I mean.

I'm not saying that this should come for free. A small points increase and maybe half the movement range as they are "locked" together, but even with that it would see some interesting tactics and thought about where to put units which I think 40k lacks a bit at the moment, and make them much more worthwhile.

I assume you mean a +1 and not a +2? BS 2+ guardsmen are a bit crazy. Even a blanket +1 to hit is great considering how east guard can spam special and heavy weapons. An upgrade like this would need to cost a considerable amount of points to be balanced.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I assume you mean a +1 and not a +2? BS 2+ guardsmen are a bit crazy. Even a blanket +1 to hit is great considering how east guard can spam special and heavy weapons. An upgrade like this would need to cost a considerable amount of points to be balanced.

oh sorry got to change that slab shields are +2 to saving rolls

Well, this is going to trigger some folks.

It's a nice concept, and if written properly would be fine - even just providing normal "cover", assuming Bullgryns were priced accordingly. They're already absolutely superb units as-is.

(Anyone who has not been on the receiving end of a Bullgryn bomb...it's not overly pleasant!)

Modifying saving throws makes more sense. But it’s still going to be tricky to balance. Guardsmen suddenly have power armor saves and scions have terminator armor.

Also you probably want to stipulate that it’s +2 to cover saves. 3++ invuls would cover squishy guard characters too well. Also if it stacks with normal cover regular guardsman could get 2+ armor.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Modifying saving throws makes more sense. But it’s still going to be tricky to balance. Guardsmen suddenly have power armor saves and scions have terminator armor.

Also you probably want to stipulate that it’s +2 to cover saves. 3++ invuls would cover squishy guard characters too well. Also if it stacks with normal cover regular guardsman could get 2+ armor.

I was just using the slab shield how it was. BTW a +2 to cover saves for the rule I'm proposing is the same as +2 to all save rolls as it only works if the Bullgyrns are providing "cover".

 deotrims 16th wrote:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Modifying saving throws makes more sense. But it’s still going to be tricky to balance. Guardsmen suddenly have power armor saves and scions have terminator armor.

Also you probably want to stipulate that it’s +2 to cover saves. 3++ invuls would cover squishy guard characters too well. Also if it stacks with normal cover regular guardsman could get 2+ armor.

I was just using the slab shield how it was. BTW a +2 to cover saves for the rule I'm proposing is the same as +2 to all save rolls as it only works if the Bullgyrns are providing "cover".

Doesn't quite due to abilities that allow the benifits of cover to be removed.
Also you really are going for an epic triggering troll

Perhaps give the Bullgryns an aura effect? Units within 3" (or 6") behind a Bullgryn unit get either a 6++/5++ save or +1/+2 Cover save?

Sounds like a good idea! If Bullgryn were roughly double the points they are now it would probably be reasonable, since they are so undercosted now.

Perhaps infantry should also go up in price to accommodate their new, unstoppable 3+ saves?

Another alternative; models with slab shields count a LOS blocking terrain for friendly infantry. Put up a line of Bullgryns and march your other infantry units up behind them. The enemy will have to reposition to shoot around the Bullgryns.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Sounds like a good idea! If Bullgryn were roughly double the points they are now it would probably be reasonable, since they are so undercosted now.

Perhaps infantry should also go up in price to accommodate their new, unstoppable 3+ saves?

The regular infantry doesn't get point increased for another unit having an ability that effects infantry, Only the unit that has the ability does and they are priced accordingly. But Bullgyrns should see a point incease either way.





Its also not as hard to implement as some people are making out, you just get a tape measure and make a line between th targeted troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

 deotrims 16th wrote:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Modifying saving throws makes more sense. But it’s still going to be tricky to balance. Guardsmen suddenly have power armor saves and scions have terminator armor.

Also you probably want to stipulate that it’s +2 to cover saves. 3++ invuls would cover squishy guard characters too well. Also if it stacks with normal cover regular guardsman could get 2+ armor.

I was just using the slab shield how it was. BTW a +2 to cover saves for the rule I'm proposing is the same as +2 to all save rolls as it only works if the Bullgyrns are providing "cover".

Doesn't quite due to abilities that allow the benifits of cover to be removed.
Also you really are going for an epic triggering troll

I'm not trying to be a troll. I'm saying that with this ability bullgyrns should have a reasonable point increase, which balances it out, and you can get around the wall easily enough. When in wall they can only move 3", sniper units aren't affected by the wall as they can shoot through the gaps. I'm just atemptting to propose rule ideas that would add a bit more strategy into a game that lacks it now.

Other armies shuld also have units with "strategic" abilities to add more strategy to the game, this was just the first I thought of.

There is no such thing as a resonable points increase if IG would be running around with +3 or +2sv on turn one and cost 4pts.

But I could be ok with that. Just give my GK termintors stormshields, and give them some powerfield generator overlap So that they and any unit behind them would get a +2 to their inv save. Roll of 1 would still fail of course. I also think that a price increase wouldn't be needed as GK already cost around 20-30% more then they should.