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Here's the list, I will use it only in pure competitive play

DAemons Battalion

295 GUO warlord with Bell and Corruption, Impenetrabile Hide Powers: Flleshy abundance, Shrivelling pox
70 POxbringer with Miasma of Pestilence

54 3 Nurglings
54 3 nurglings
54 3 nurglings

Death Guard Battallion
156 Daemon prince of nurgle, double talon, Powers: putrescent vitality
98 Sorcerer

60 Poxwalkers
60 poxwalkers
50 cultist

351 3x Myphitic Blight Haulers
351 3x Myphitic Blight Haulers
351 3x Myphitic Blight Haulers

The plan is simple, I simply slow advance trying to tarpit everything in a fight that no one can win.
At the start of my turn, on 4+ a new Hauler pops out for every unit of them within 7" from the GUO.
each unit of haulers are R7 24 wounds, with feel no pain at 5, they are a pain to disloge and each unit can revive a lost hauler every turn, not to mention fleshy abudance.
I think that the attrition can destroy everything if I manage to play enough turns.

The roster is over by 4 points, I don't know how to fix it, all units are bare bone.

You don’t add haulers you can only restore ones that were killed

 swanson4969 wrote:
You don’t add haulers you can only restore ones that were killed

Yes, that's the point! I assumed that some of them will die every turn as they are pretty much all of my army

Focus GUO and no more Bell of Corruption or Fleshy Abundance.

Good luck killing a R7 18 wounds with 3++ AND Fnp that can potentially heal 2d3 wound in my turn.
With 13 cp I have plenty points for Warp Surge him every turn and Revolting Regeneration if needed.
Even without the healing strats you need 35 lascannons shot with BS 3 to kill him
I could give fleshy abundance to the Poxbringer to be safe in the tragic event of the death of the GUO

Your GUO doesnt have a 3++, only 4++ with warp surge. Impenetrable Hide is only a save characteristic of 4+. Your list is only 1312 points.

 p5freak wrote:
Your GUO doesnt have a 3++, only 4++ with warp surge. Impenetrable Hide is only a save characteristic of 4+. Your list is only 1312 points.

You're right, I misread, I think that the ablative wound trait is fine so. This change a lot his resilience as it could be useful Deep strike him against some lists....

Sadly the the math is unforgiving as 295+70+54*3+156+98+60*2+50+351*3 is 2004

 brugner8 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Your GUO doesnt have a 3++, only 4++ with warp surge. Impenetrable Hide is only a save characteristic of 4+. Your list is only 1312 points.

You're right, I misread, I think that the ablative wound trait is fine so. This change a lot his resilience as it could be useful Deep strike him against some lists....

Sadly the the math is unforgiving as 295+70+54*3+156+98+60*2+50+351*3 is 2004

Ok, i see my mistake. Remove a unit of poxwalkers and replace them with cultists.

You need to present your list better as it's very confusing to read. Put the number of guys in each unit on one side and the points value on the other. Not both on the same side.

Also, it's hardly an unkillable list. Not even close.

I have plenty of competitive all comers lists that could beat this list with little trouble in three turns regardless of terrain and going first or second.

Also, that GUO will die in a single round of shooting. A good GT army should be able to do that without too much difficulty.

Examples being. Farseer with Doom and guide. A warlock with Jinx and 25 dark reapers can easily annihilate an imperial walker castellan and Mortarion twice over.

Or even 4 Cadian plasma tank commanders with pask and a few lascannons with a relic of lost Cadian.. That's on average 44 BS2 plasma overload shots at 36" with a Cadian stratagem to boost BS on a wounded target. And reroll ALL miss hits and failed wounds. Plus you can grudge the GUO as well. That's 43 hits and let's assume that you're still T7. That's 39 wounds at D2 each. You save half, so 20 saves and 19 go through. That's 38 damage wounds and you use DR. So, that's 13 wounds ignored. Leaving you still with 25 wounds going through.

And we haven't even talked about the four lascannons of which at least one will go through. Even if you got miasma or whatever the minus 1 bs is called. The GUO still wouldn't survive a single round of shooting from that. And all of what I've mentioned for the four LRBTs is barely 850-900 points.

You're also too slow to react to anything. People can just focus fire on one part of your army at a time. There's also also an eternal war mission that has a 24" null zone. You will struggled immensely with that.

Plus this is the kind of list that will heavily suffer against Deathwatch as they have BS3 that can reroll all miss hits every turn and always wound you on 2s with mass bolter fire and they have stratagems that allow them to add 1 to all wound rolls for one of their units.

How would you improve this list? I have no idea, but in all honesty, I wouldn't consider taking chaos as I don't believe that they're the no.1 army.

As for the suggestion as to how to get the list legal. I agree with getting more cultists instead of something else. However, I have to also agree that trying to chew through 100+ pox walkers is not going to be easy at all. But it should be very doable.

How would you improve this list? I have no idea, but in all honesty, I wouldn't consider taking chaos as I don't believe that they're the no.1 army.

I don't think there is such a thing as a number one army, is there? I mean looking at lvo there was a lot of Astra Militarum, Knights, Ynari and Aeldari. But there was also daemons, thousand sons, ultramrines, tau, ad mech and drukhari going 6-0/5-1. You can win with almost any army, especially after chapter approved points changes. Sure you might struggle with grey knights or necrons but people still place high at tournaments with them.

Also, it's hardly an unkillable list. Not even close.

It's as close to unkilliable as 40k gets and if you bring 25 dark reapers to a tournement there's pleanty of lists that would counter them hard. Play against tau , drukari or orks with lootaz and it will be over by turn 3.

Every list has counters and hoarde style lists tend to do well in tournaments. You'll struggle to find guard with less than 80 guardsmen or tau with less than 60 fire warriors.

That said I think blight haulers are still too easy to bad touch and you'd be better with plague burst crawlers as the distraction unit with some plaguebearers. You wouldn't be able to rely on the guo getting that off reliably and it's only one 117 point model.

I did some math and statistically a GUO suck, to be onest
Daemons have so few decent choices , I would cry.
Anyway I’ll try this list tomorrow.against a Imperial Soup tournament list.
Thanks for the suggestions and feedback, after the try I’ll post the result, one thing that came up my mind is that
I could swap a unit of haulers for pod walkers, to add bodies to the list.

Problem with GUO, Magnus, Bloodthirsters etc is they only work in a list with a few big threats and daemons are all about the troops. That's why I only use Daemon Prince, Heralds and the like.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Guo dies turn 1 against any competiive fire based list played by a good player, who dont have fire power enough usually grind him down in CaC or in infinite melee where he cant get anywhere. If i see a Guo on the table with my list i can just smile.

 small_gods wrote:

How would you improve this list? I have no idea, but in all honesty, I wouldn't consider taking chaos as I don't believe that they're the no.1 army.

I don't think there is such a thing as a number one army, is there? I mean looking at lvo there was a lot of Astra Militarum, Knights, Ynari and Aeldari. But there was also daemons, thousand sons, ultramrines, tau, ad mech and drukhari going 6-0/5-1. You can win with almost any army, especially after chapter approved points changes. Sure you might struggle with grey knights or necrons but people still place high at tournaments with them.

Also, it's hardly an unkillable list. Not even close.

It's as close to unkilliable as 40k gets and if you bring 25 dark reapers to a tournement there's pleanty of lists that would counter them hard. Play against tau , drukari or orks with lootaz and it will be over by turn 3.

Every list has counters and hoarde style lists tend to do well in tournaments. You'll struggle to find guard with less than 80 guardsmen or tau with less than 60 fire warriors.

That said I think blight haulers are still too easy to bad touch and you'd be better with plague burst crawlers as the distraction unit with some plaguebearers. You wouldn't be able to rely on the guo getting that off reliably and it's only one 117 point model.

I'm going to have to disagree with you strongly there.

I have absolutely no problem against Tau with 25 dark reapers who make up only just half my army in a 1750 pts or 2000 pts game. Drukhari and orks with lootas are also no problem at all. I also counter any fast or deep striking armies pretty hard, but I do agree that it'll normally be over by turn 3. Over for my opponent.

And as long as something can be better than another, you can have something that's better than the rest. It can still have weaknesses, that people may or may not notice or be able to do something about it due to the different in power and abilities between them. But there is no.1 list.

Give people enough time and let the same rules stay the same for enough time and people will find out what it is. The problem is that the rules change so often, that people aren't able to find the no.1 list. Plus, there's cost and time to attend enough tournaments and human errors. If we had an AI and gave it the collective knowledge of say our top 100 players and had it focus on 8th edition. I'm sure it could do it and give us the no.1 list with no.1 tactics for that list that make it the no.1 force in the world at any points level and at any time during 8th edition. Whether it be before battlebrothers or the rule of 3 or both.

Plus, some lists don't have as hard counters and can deal with more counters in general.

However, I'm describing one hell of an unlikely scenario in terms of AIs and knowledge. But in short, I disagree. So, let's focus on how we can help the OP

For example, I definitely agree with the idea of grabbing daemon princes and other small ICs instead as they're so much harder to deal with horde like armies when they have important ICs that can't be picked out like normal. So, if you're going to pick characters, choose those with less than 10 wounds to take full advantage of a horde Nurgle army.

40k in 8th isn't like it was in 7th. There is no top list. Because there are counters to any list like rock paper scissors. What I was saying is that 25 dark reapers may cause this list headaches but it will be countered by others.

If you don't belive me look at the top 25 lists at lvo, there is a total of 1 unit of dark reapers, and with 650 participants you can be sure that several of them were spamming reapers: https://www.battle-report.com/2019/02/11/2019-las-vegas-open-lvo-warhammer-40000-grand-tournament/

So if you're easily beating tau, ork etc lists by turn 3 I can only presume that you're opponents aren't competitively minded or are running odd lists that have no answer for reaper spam.

The changing of editions is not a valid reason for there being no top list. I never said that there were no counters, I just said that the counters aren't as good as I think you make them out to be, because I've never had the trouble that you've highlighted.

Think of this way, the rules are constantly changing in the real world and yet, humans have dominated the planet for thousands of years. No matter what has happened. We are the no.1 species on the planet and we have plenty of counters in the environment and other species.

So, yes I know there is a top list, because the whole point of building the top/best list is to build the best one possible that can counter as many others as much as possible and as hard as possible, while decreasing the number of counter picks possible and minimising the severity of those counters as much as possible.

I've seen the LVO and I've seen the reports, the interviews etc. 650 participants is not enough to justify that spamming reapers and whatnot isn't the top list, because a game with this many variations would need far more than what you're trying to supplement your point with.

Your first assumption would also assume that you're assuming far too much. As I clearly explained earlier, I've only revealed half of my list and no that isn't the problem, because my opponents are very competitive and go to GTs often.

Also, the whole point of playing to win and to create the top list is so that your opponent has no answer to the problem you present or at least not a strong enough answer to win the game against you.

Plus, I've not seen any LVO list posted online that I'm not confident with beating and who's list would be cause for genuine concern for me, in the sense that it counters me so hard that I think, this is a hard counter, more so than me just thinking that it's a good list in general that can seriously compete for the winner of the LVO.

However, I must admit that I'm forgetting at least one vital detail. To quote the builders from the animated green lantern movies when they created the yellow element weapon. It has one major weakness. The user.

In this case, I'm referring to me. Whenever I'm playing games, I'm normally far more worried about me missing or forgetting something and losing the game because of my mistake that I wouldn't have made in my nice and comfy armchair, while drinking my favourite beverage and reviewing the rules and books etc. I'm more worried of my own mistakes than of my enemies' plans and coincidentally, I'd say that 9 times out of ten, the games I lose are often because of my own mistakes during game play as opposed to list building and/or bad dice rolls.

Because stress does funny things to a man. Well, the person under said stress might not find it funny, because I'm sure Horus didn't find it so when he discovered that his father was destroying his very soul.

 blackmage wrote:
Guo dies turn 1 against any competiive fire based list played by a good player, who dont have fire power enough usually grind him down in CaC or in infinite melee where he cant get anywhere. If i see a Guo on the table with my list i can just smile.

And you were right, a fire list killed the guo turn 1. It’s not so easy, my opponents shoot him with everything he had on the table and he barely made it.
Anyway the biggest con of this list is that Haulers have a huge footprint and they do not fly, so is pretty easy to stop them with a single unit if guards that they cannot jump over. The haulers are really a pain to dislodge, psy powers have effect on the whole unit and since they don’t degrade they remain a threat even with one wound left.
In the end the problem is the GUO that for 300 points sucks, it’s overcosted and not nearly as durable as a mountain of flesh the size of a house should be.

That's the same reason I stopped playing Skarbrand. Even deepstriking him and using warpsurge he wasn't tough enough to last more than 2 rounds. I think blackmage said the same thing to me last year but I didn't want to listen!

It would run better with more bodies and daemon princes rather than guo.

Yeah, that's a good advice.
I played against a Deathwatch + Guard + Knight army, the sheer volume of fire that Deathwatch can dish out is amazing.
It was a though list to play against, the player was good and the deathwatch brutal.

I would like the help of blackmage and the others to build a really competitive list with caos

This is my current list. I've run it in a local and done well. It works well with the beta bolter rules, I'mtaking it to a few tournaments this year, mainly ETC stuff. I've done well in other tournaments with more of a hoarde style daemon list, 30 horrors, 60 bloodletters, 60 cultisits.

Thousand Son Supreme Command

Arriman on disc 166
3 x Daemon Prince with talons 540 One with Dark Matter Crystal

10 x Scarab Occult Terminators, 2 x hellfire missle 404

Chaos Daemon Battallion

Poxbringer 70
Sloppity Bilepiper 60

30 x Plaguebearers, banner and icon 235
2x 3 Nurglings 108

Chaos Daemons patrol

Daemon Prince with wings and Skullreaver relic 180

30x bloodletters banner and icon 235

Total 1998, 7CP

It's definately possible, especially with CA points changes

It’s not bad but I’m skeptical on the scarab occult, they do not have enough punch and they die to easily.

In my last torunament I met 3 knight list:
Triple crusader and helverins

One castellan and triple gallant

Triple caps knight with double Gatling

With this meta scarab are useless and the horde melt really quick

I tried 10 chaos termy with plasma but they simply dies too quickly

Yeah it's definately a gamble but they're not for that. I generally manage knights lists really well with mortal wounds from psychic and daemon princes. They can however kill 30 boyz a turn and that's what I was struggling with when I was playing alpha legion and daemons. Skullreaver prince can handle any knight effectively too. He's borderline broken.

That's just my thoughts and experience anyway. I am worried about the ammount of assasins we're about to see though. A culexus in every list is not going to be fun!