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From what I've seen, the biggest complaints with beta rules are that they promote more static play and help the storm bolter more than the bolter. That being said, I do like the beta rules and I really like what they have done for terminators and bikes.

Prior to the introduction to the rule, I was thinking of ways to help out space marines (and chaos marines, everything in this post applies to them as well), and it turns out that I was pretty close to what GW did in making a weapon profile change just for space marines, but I had a different take on it

Basically, I wanted to make several common marine weapons into assault weapons, most notably the bolter and heavy bolter.

Example:

Bolter- Assault 2, 24 inch
(the twin boltguns on bike would not be included in this, they keep the rapid fire)

Heavy bolter- Assault 3, 36 inch
(I wasn’t taking vehicles into account when making this, but I don’t think vehicle mounted heavy bolters should have had -1 to hit in the first place)

My intention was to give marines a lot more freedom in their movement, while putting off consistent firepower, but it didn't help other units like terminators and bikes. I think my rule could actually work really well along side the current beta rule. It would keep the massive buffs that terminators and bikes got, while closing the gap between bolters and storm bolters.

With my addition, bolters are cheaper, keep their full effectiveness at range, and allow the marine to advance and shoot, while the storm bolter has more shots, but requires the marine to stand still at range.

Obviously there would be kinks to work out, like which weapons would get this, but I think it would go a long way to make more marines show up on the tabletop.

The problem with this, is that Primaris units have access to assault bolter versions (and plasma versions etc.). They're already hindered by the lack of Beta Bolter rules, so it would make them even more useless.

As noted, while the Beta Bolter rules are step in the right direction, they help the wrong units the most. Rather than enhancing the line units like Tactical Squads, Assault Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and Raptors, they help specialist and vehicles like Terminators, Bikes, Deathwatch Storm Bolters, and Hurricane Bolters the most.

Also, the rule helps extend the range of Marine firepower, but does't actually do anything for marines when they are within their half range for Rapid Fire Weapons.

I would think something a bit more radical and focused on the proper units would be best. Something like:

Bolter Discipline
This rule is added to all Adeptus Astartes or Heretic Astartes Infantry model that is not a Tzaangor model. When the model fires a Bolt weapon (any weapon with Bolt in the name, the Bolt profile of a Combi-weapon or any Relic that replaces such a weapon), it gains one additional attack above those provided by the weapon profile. For example, a Bolter (Rapid Fire 1) would fire 2 shots (1+1) gaining a 3rd when within half it's maximum range (1 x 2 + 1).

Additionally, when a model armed with a Bolt weapon makes close combat attacks, it gains one additional attack at S Model, AP 0.

This would push the bonus for Bolter Discipline to the less powerful infantry models, actually increase firepower, and also increase the close combat capability of Marines without a stat change.

Of course, it could be a bit much for some specialized units like Khorne Berserkers (double the Bolt Pistol attacks and another melee attack!), but it would do wonders for the offense of Assault Marines, Raptors, and even Tactical Marines/Chaos Space Marines.

 alextroy wrote:
As noted, while the Beta Bolter rules are step in the right direction, they help the wrong units the most. Rather than enhancing the line units like Tactical Squads, Assault Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and Raptors, they help specialist and vehicles like Terminators, Bikes, Deathwatch Storm Bolters, and Hurricane Bolters the most.

Also, the rule helps extend the range of Marine firepower, but does't actually do anything for marines when they are within their half range for Rapid Fire Weapons.

I would think something a bit more radical and focused on the proper units would be best. Something like:

Bolter Discipline
This rule is added to all Adeptus Astartes or Heretic Astartes Infantry model that is not a Tzaangor model. When the model fires a Bolt weapon (any weapon with Bolt in the name, the Bolt profile of a Combi-weapon or any Relic that replaces such a weapon), it gains one additional attack above those provided by the weapon profile. For example, a Bolter (Rapid Fire 1) would fire 2 shots (1+1) gaining a 3rd when within half it's maximum range (1 x 2 + 1).

Additionally, when a model armed with a Bolt weapon makes close combat attacks, it gains one additional attack at S Model, AP 0.

This would push the bonus for Bolter Discipline to the less powerful infantry models, actually increase firepower, and also increase the close combat capability of Marines without a stat change.

Of course, it could be a bit much for some specialized units like Khorne Berserkers (double the Bolt Pistol attacks and another melee attack!), but it would do wonders for the offense of Assault Marines, Raptors, and even Tactical Marines/Chaos Space Marines.

Yeah, I like this. Absolutely agree that the current version least benefits the units that need the most help.

 alextroy wrote:
As noted, while the Beta Bolter rules are step in the right direction, they help the wrong units the most. Rather than enhancing the line units like Tactical Squads, Assault Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and Raptors, they help specialist and vehicles like Terminators, Bikes, Deathwatch Storm Bolters, and Hurricane Bolters the most.

Also, the rule helps extend the range of Marine firepower, but does't actually do anything for marines when they are within their half range for Rapid Fire Weapons.

I would think something a bit more radical and focused on the proper units would be best. Something like:

Bolter Discipline
This rule is added to all Adeptus Astartes or Heretic Astartes Infantry model that is not a Tzaangor model. When the model fires a Bolt weapon (any weapon with Bolt in the name, the Bolt profile of a Combi-weapon or any Relic that replaces such a weapon), it gains one additional attack above those provided by the weapon profile. For example, a Bolter (Rapid Fire 1) would fire 2 shots (1+1) gaining a 3rd when within half it's maximum range (1 x 2 + 1).

Additionally, when a model armed with a Bolt weapon makes close combat attacks, it gains one additional attack at S Model, AP 0.

This would push the bonus for Bolter Discipline to the less powerful infantry models, actually increase firepower, and also increase the close combat capability of Marines without a stat change.

Of course, it could be a bit much for some specialized units like Khorne Berserkers (double the Bolt Pistol attacks and another melee attack!), but it would do wonders for the offense of Assault Marines, Raptors, and even Tactical Marines/Chaos Space Marines.

This is the best suggested Bolter Discipline fix that I've seen so far. This has my vote

I disagree, do Rhinos get an extra attack? Do landraiders?

Also, this would get overpowered FAST when you are talking Primaris, especially Aggressors, the new Vanguard sniper rifles, or anything taking Heavy Bolters. As a matter of fact, this would make Devastator squads down right stupid. Add shots, pop Cherub, re-shoot everything?

I see your intent, but you are likely focusing on Tacticals and not seeing how it affects EVERYTHING else. Jesus, think of squads of DW armed with Stalker Pattern Bolt Rifles. Double shooting Stalker rounds every turn? No, I think we keep it RF weapons only?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I disagree, do Rhinos get an extra attack? Do landraiders?

Also, this would get overpowered FAST when you are talking Primaris, especially Aggressors, the new Vanguard sniper rifles, or anything taking Heavy Bolters. As a matter of fact, this would make Devastator squads down right stupid. Add shots, pop Cherub, re-shoot everything?

I see your intent, but you are likely focusing on Tacticals and not seeing how it affects EVERYTHING else. Jesus, think of squads of DW armed with Stalker Pattern Bolt Rifles. Double shooting Stalker rounds every turn? No, I think we keep it RF weapons only?

Got to agree with that.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
As noted, while the Beta Bolter rules are step in the right direction, they help the wrong units the most. Rather than enhancing the line units like Tactical Squads, Assault Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and Raptors, they help specialist and vehicles like Terminators, Bikes, Deathwatch Storm Bolters, and Hurricane Bolters the most.

Also, the rule helps extend the range of Marine firepower, but does't actually do anything for marines when they are within their half range for Rapid Fire Weapons.

I would think something a bit more radical and focused on the proper units would be best. Something like:

Bolter Discipline
This rule is added to all Adeptus Astartes or Heretic Astartes Infantry model that is not a Tzaangor model. When the model fires a Bolt weapon (any weapon with Bolt in the name, the Bolt profile of a Combi-weapon or any Relic that replaces such a weapon), it gains one additional attack above those provided by the weapon profile. For example, a Bolter (Rapid Fire 1) would fire 2 shots (1+1) gaining a 3rd when within half it's maximum range (1 x 2 + 1).

Additionally, when a model armed with a Bolt weapon makes close combat attacks, it gains one additional attack at S Model, AP 0.

This would push the bonus for Bolter Discipline to the less powerful infantry models, actually increase firepower, and also increase the close combat capability of Marines without a stat change.

Of course, it could be a bit much for some specialized units like Khorne Berserkers (double the Bolt Pistol attacks and another melee attack!), but it would do wonders for the offense of Assault Marines, Raptors, and even Tactical Marines/Chaos Space Marines.

This is the best suggested Bolter Discipline fix that I've seen so far. This has my vote

Indeed gets my vote too. In fact I emailed GW something very similar about a week after the BD rule came out, although just for RF weapons. Hopefully we'll see an update in the next FAQ (which is hopefully just around the corner)

-

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I disagree, do Rhinos get an extra attack? Do landraiders?

Also, this would get overpowered FAST when you are talking Primaris, especially Aggressors, the new Vanguard sniper rifles, or anything taking Heavy Bolters. As a matter of fact, this would make Devastator squads down right stupid. Add shots, pop Cherub, re-shoot everything?

I see your intent, but you are likely focusing on Tacticals and not seeing how it affects EVERYTHING else. Jesus, think of squads of DW armed with Stalker Pattern Bolt Rifles. Double shooting Stalker rounds every turn? No, I think we keep it RF weapons only?

Last time I checked, Rhinos and Landraiders are not Infantry, so under my "proposal", no.

And why should only RF weapons get a bonus? Should Stalker Pattern Bolt Rifles and AutoBolt Rifles, already considered inferior to Bolt Rifles, be even worst in comparison given any sort of Better Bolter rule?