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For a 'mere' space marine, Abaddon has been still fairly successful in the past milienia.

Managed to reforge the sons of horus. Lead devastating attacks on the imperium and managed to play along the game of the chaos gods.

In spite of this, to me he still has the image of the underdog. But I can't really point my finger on why.

Maybe because in the end, Chaos can't win? Maybe because there are bigger fish around, like the daemon primarchs? Or maybe because of the endless memes, that somehow got to my brain?


How do you see Abaddon? Is he an underdog to you or is he the dark king, reigning above them all?

I think Abaddon's an okay character, He's not among My top 10 but probably an honorable mention. But I think He has this image of an "underdog" because of all of those memes around him. Until Gathering Storm (and that novel, Talons Of Horus) Abaddon was viewed by A good chunk of the fandom as An incompetent commander and failure due to the fact He botched over twelve black crusades (arguably one of the most devesting forces...in all of entertainment) even if they where part of grander plan of sorts.

yes, look at the odds against him, insane legionaries, chaos gods, the imperium, ships, weapons ammo, dark mech... the list goes on, and still he pushes through and wins, he is likely THE 40k underdog, but only because guardsman 493483829 does not matter.

His image has improved dramatically after the Gathering Storm, but Games-Workshop run the risk of relegating him right back into meme territory depending on how they deal with Vigilus. I strongly feel that the Vigilus campaign should result in a resounding win for Abaddon. I think giving him two big wins in a row would shore up his image in a big way, and then GW could forget about him for a while and move onto events happening elsewhere in the galaxy, and his image would maintain itself for a good while.

On the other hand, handing his arse back to him and Scooby Doo-ing him now could pretty much undo all the good favour he's earned recently. Be a shame too, because his new model is the tits.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
His image has improved dramatically after the Gathering Storm, but Games-Workshop run the risk of relegating him right back into meme territory depending on how they deal with Vigilus. I strongly feel that the Vigilus campaign should result in a resounding win for Abaddon. I think giving him two big wins in a row would shore up his image in a big way, and then GW could forget about him for a while and move onto events happening elsewhere in the galaxy, and his image would maintain itself for a good while.

On the other hand, handing his arse back to him and Scooby Doo-ing him now could pretty much undo all the good favour he's earned recently. Be a shame too, because his new model is the tits.

I could see GW giving Vigilus to the Warmaster. It's not like Vigilus is a well known planet. Wasn't it more or less created for the recent games/releases?

Pretty much.

I don't see how Chaos can't win though.

GW gave itself an out by having there be two stable crossing points. They can give Abby a victory with out making an entire half of the IOM entirely cut off. Still the above highlights 40k's inherent weakness as
a live story. You can't make to many massive changes without invalidating models or entire ranges.

GW tried that with AOS it it took a while for them to escape the initial backlash.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
GW gave itself an out by having there be two stable crossing points. They can give Abby a victory with out making an entire half of the IOM entirely cut off. Still the above highlights 40k's inherent weakness as
a live story. You can't make to many massive changes without invalidating models or entire ranges.

GW tried that with AOS it it took a while for them to escape the initial backlash.

giving chaos control of vigilus could be intreasting give chaos control of one mouth and the IoM control of the other?

It would be, though do we have any fluff on it being just as difficult for chaos to cross the rift or any warp storm for that matter as the other factions?

I always assumed that chaos forces were not as hampered by a warp storm but now that I think about it, I actually don't remember reading anything that explicitly says that.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
It would be, though do we have any fluff on it being just as difficult for chaos to cross the rift or any warp storm for that matter as the other factions?

I always assumed that chaos forces were not as hampered by a warp storm but now that I think about it, I actually don't remember reading anything that explicitly says that.

In theory they could get through it fine if they persuaded their god to help out. The issue is the other 3 gods might decide to stick their nose in and ruin it. But I do remember Battle of the Fang has 1k Son Sorcerors enter the system WAY closer to Fenris than others can because they're plain better.

 Kriswall wrote:
I could see GW giving Vigilus to the Warmaster. It's not like Vigilus is a well known planet. Wasn't it more or less created for the recent games/releases?

Exactly! Low cost, high reward, which is exactly why I'm so confident that Games-Workshop will drop the ball, send the Warmaster packing with his ponytail between his legs, and have whom is essentially antagonist numero uno relegated to meme territory for another 10 millennia.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
I could see GW giving Vigilus to the Warmaster. It's not like Vigilus is a well known planet. Wasn't it more or less created for the recent games/releases?

Exactly! Low cost, high reward, which is exactly why I'm so confident that Games-Workshop will drop the ball, send the Warmaster packing with his ponytail between his legs, and have whom is essentially antagonist numero uno relegated to meme territory for another 10 millennia.

its possiable they could instead have the IoM "win" well Abaddon destroys what makes the world valuable. So abaddon destroys the blackstone deposists and then simply retreats rather then bothering to hold the world. the IoM declares Vigilus a victory well we're told that stable corridor closing is now inevitable.

It's kind of interesting that Chaos 'won' in the Horus Heresy, and that part of Abbadon's thing is that he has to use Chaos and not be used by it like Horus was. I'm reminded of Wittgenstein's comment about his life like being astride two horses going in opposite directions.

I would argue that no, not only is he not an underdog but that if William Hill offered odds on Chaos v. IoM, Abaddon would be the odds-on favourite.

It also depends on how you define 'underdog'. To me you have to be quite significantly outmatched to be an underdog, to others it just means 'is not the favourite to win'.

Aaron Dembski-Bowden kind of paints him as an underdog with glorious purpose in The Talon of Horus and Black Legion, but he does it moreso in a "here's how the underdog space hobo became the Warmaster" kind of way.

I think those two books have done more to characterize Abaddon as an interesting, dynamic character than any piece of lore since the character's invention.

 Darth Bob wrote:
Aaron Dembski-Bowden kind of paints him as an underdog with glorious purpose in The Talon of Horus and Black Legion, but he does it moreso in a "here's how the underdog space hobo became the Warmaster" kind of way.

I think those two books have done more to characterize Abaddon as an interesting, dynamic character than any piece of lore since the character's invention.

agreed fantastic books and I wanna see more of the series