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Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




New Zealand

Hail.

What is everyone’s opinion about doing away with codexs for armies and just having datasheets just like AoS does?

With vigilus a blade and Shadowspear and their minidexs I can see this as a possibility, but I want to know your opinions.

   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Erm, I don't play AoS so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure AoS still has "codexes". They're called battletomes, and even though the datasheets are available for free all of the extra rules that make your army function can only be found in the book.
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






I could survive without a codex, but I do enjoy the reading, and the references. Helps with painting occasionally.

I do think they should provide the base data sheets online. Sure throw relics, traits and stratagems in a book. It's not going to kill the market for codexes, people that get them via other methods are gonna do that regardless.
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




New Zealand

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Erm, I don't play AoS so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure AoS still has "codexes". They're called battletomes, and even though the datasheets are available for free all of the extra rules that make your army function can only be found in the book.


Battletomes have datasheets but it’s mostly lore and formations because you can get the datasheets free from the offical website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 fraser1191 wrote:
I could survive without a codex, but I do enjoy the reading, and the references. Helps with painting occasionally.

I do think they should provide the base data sheets online. Sure throw relics, traits and stratagems in a book. It's not going to kill the market for codexes, people that get them via other methods are gonna do that regardless.


Minidexs or battletomes could be available for that and minidexs means they may sell afew minidexs per army or white dwarfs for relics, formations and stratagems

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/19 02:34:11


 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




NY

I'm pretty tired of gotcha moments/attempts from strats traits relics. Players should have easy access to all the rules. So sick of rules hiding in special purchases. At least we have community resources like 1d4 and battlescribe.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'm more tired of Chapter Tactics. I think they were a reasonable rule when they applied only to SM and were costly or marginal (although anything SM get CSM should get too). But it just adds so much bloat and fake flavor to the game.

Rip out most stratagems and WL traits, and make Relics Wargear (as in points), and I think the game would be a lot better.

However, I'd still like a book that lists all the unit options my faction has. Plus, the in-codex fluff/artwork/cruft can be a lot of fun. Even if there are addendums posted after the fact (such as new units getting data sheets). Even if all data sheets *were* available online.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Warlord Traits would be fine if there were less of them to balance. Right now the Marine codex has more than 10 I'm pretty sure, but the same few ones always get used.
In a similar manner to how 8th began, there really should only be 3 Generic Traits in each codex, followed by the Sub Army traits right afterwards. This creates less bloat and would be a lot easier to balance.

Army Traits are fine for the most part outside how it varies for internal balance in each codex. Ultramarines and Raven Guard clearly have nice and flavorful traits, but it doesn't excuse how useless Iron Hands and White Scars are (which the latter could be okay if there were more shooting or charging after advancing, but there isn't). Then there is the issue of some of the worse traits being associated with you being able to take a big character. Which I pointed out in the CSM Tactics thread not too long ago.

Relics I'm fully on board making points again. Even if you ripped out allies, relics are never going to be equal as long as they all have the same exact cost (free), so a Castellan with Wrath will always have a stupid advantage no matter what.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Then there is the issue of some of the worse traits being associated with you being able to take a big character. Which I pointed out in the CSM Tactics thread not too long ago.

Pretty sure this is more a coincidence than anything. Ultramarines chapter tactic is middle of the pack for that codex and they get the best Space Marines character, Sautekh is either the best or the second best Necron trait depending on who you ask and Sautekh get all of the Necron characters other than Trazyn.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

The Codex/Battletome is more than just rules for an army - its more than warscrolls and abilities for the force. It's also lore, background, story, flavour, artwork, painting, assembly, showcasing the army.

Sure die hard long term fans might not need much if any of that; they might purely want the rules in the end of the book and the points. However there is no denying that the work GW puts into the lore of its setting improves the strength of its fanbase. It also helps introduce new gamers to the various armies - they don't have to hunt for the background of their army in a sea of Black Library novels; they don't haev to cross their fingers that their army of choice features in the primary current story in the Big Rule Book - nopes instead they get a single book that has their army fluff and flavour all locked within it.

It's a very smart business choice that I'm surprised many others haven't cottoned onto in as big a way as GW have. The lore to a faction sparks the imagination and increase the immersion in the background of the game itself.



Nope I can't see GW getting rid of them. They just work too well at getting people into the game and settling them into the factions and game.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





The constant purchase of new books to play the game is what drove a lot of players away from the game. They knew the fluff, they knew how to paint, they liked the new models but not the three digit investments up front each edition to use what they already had. That could have gone into models. That could have kept old players for new players to game against. But nope paywall 4tw.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Personalyl I would prefer a larger (content) wise "fluff" book and datacards in a pack for all new codex releases.

That effectively is what i got for the sisters Beta Dex and works well for me and many others would have liked the data cards (with points on them) for their own armies

Trying to refer all the different pages you need in a hardback book is a pain, and its much worse watching someone fiddle with their phone and try to show you the relevant rule on a tiny screen that then fades out.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Arachnofiend wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Then there is the issue of some of the worse traits being associated with you being able to take a big character. Which I pointed out in the CSM Tactics thread not too long ago.

Pretty sure this is more a coincidence than anything. Ultramarines chapter tactic is middle of the pack for that codex and they get the best Space Marines character, Sautekh is either the best or the second best Necron trait depending on who you ask and Sautekh get all of the Necron characters other than Trazyn.

Sautekh has the benefit of being in a codex with some meh traits in general, but their trait is on the same level of useful as Black Legion with a Heavy Weapon bonus. It really doesn't help anything besides Doom Scythes and Arks (the latter of which shouldn't be moving a terrible amount).

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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