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Perhaps its just me, as i've not really seen this discussed anywhere else, but i find the size/scale of Guilliman and Abbadon kind of disturbing.... I just think thy are too big compared to the rest of the range.
To me they look like another scale from another game and i think they just look silly even next to a primaris...
Now, i get that they should be a bit bigger as one is a primarch and the other warped by chaos.... but i was thinking like a head bigger... max... It should be believable i think.
Just to be clear... this isn't a knock on the sculpts themselves... even though i don't like Guilliman (he looks like he's wearing 1000 sons armour) i do think Abbadon i one of their best sculpts yet... its truly fantastic... I just think they look out of scale...
Am i alone in this or....
Looking forward to hearing some thoughts... i'm truly interested in what others think.
FTL
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/02 10:45:57
Abaddon has always been huge compared to other models, and the Primarchs were always stated to be larger than even marines (with Alpharius being the sole exception, and even he was tall enough that only the tallest of his legion could impersonate him), so this is ok.
Plus the overall size of the models have been going up as well. Of note is that all lore-art of the primaris marines depict them as more or less the same general height as normal marines, so the larger figures might simply be an artistic license and the general shift of the overall style is heading towards bigger.
This is way more evident with the Greater Daemons; putting any of them from across the era together and you see huge size discrepencies; the 2nd edition GUO is just slightly bigger than a current-sized Ogryn (yet it's still technically legal to play it as a GUO) while the current one is (I think) slightly smaller than a land raider.
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: Abaddon has always been huge compared to other models, and the Primarchs were always stated to be larger than even marines (with Alpharius being the sole exception, and even he was tall enough that only the tallest of his legion could impersonate him), so this is ok.
Plus the overall size of the models have been going up as well. Of note is that all lore-art of the primaris marines depict them as more or less the same general height as normal marines, so the larger figures might simply be an artistic license and the general shift of the overall style is heading towards bigger.
This is way more evident with the Greater Daemons; putting any of them from across the era together and you see huge size discrepencies; the 2nd edition GUO is just slightly bigger than a current-sized Ogryn (yet it's still technically legal to play it as a GUO) while the current one is (I think) slightly smaller than a land raider.
I do get the lore and fluff... i know thats this is what is said... i just think the current models look silly and out of scale.
It's typical GW scale creep; you either accept it for what it is or you don't. It's been going on pretty much since GW started producing minis - compare RT boxed Marines with the newer (now defunct) plastic marines and then compare those with Primaris. Compare old metal Terminators with the reboxed plastic ones. Compare old Blood Bowl models with newly released ones. And so on and so forth.
It's a marketing tool - by making things ever so slightly out of whack with existing range, they can 'subtly' convince you to upgrade to the latest models, even if you already own the previous ones. And to be fair, it works - when they released Terminators in plastic, I replaced my old metal ones entirely because they looked stupid when placed alongside the new ones.
Which I'm totally fine with if it's consistent, but why the heck did they leave the new Chaos Marines a head shorter than the Primaris? Now they just look like angry midgets.
Which I'm totally fine with if it's consistent, but why the heck did they leave the new Chaos Marines a head shorter than the Primaris? Now they just look like angry midgets.
Because Chaos Marines are not Primaris Marines (thankfully) and *should* be shorter?
It would make absolutely no sense for CSM to be as big as Primaris Marines.
Which I'm totally fine with if it's consistent, but why the heck did they leave the new Chaos Marines a head shorter than the Primaris? Now they just look like angry midgets.
Because CSM aren't Primaris? Why would they be the same size? If anything, CSM are out of scale because they're not the same size as Mark VII Marines.
fasterthanlight wrote: Perhaps its just me, as i've not really seen this discussed anywhere else, but i find the size/scale of Guilliman and Abbadon kind of disturbing.... I just think thy are too big compared to the rest of the range.
To me they look like another scale from another game and i think they just look silly even next to a primaris...
Now, i get that they should be a bit bigger as one is a primarch and the other warped by chaos.... but i was thinking like a head bigger... max... It should be believable i think.
Just to be clear... this isn't a knock on the sculpts themselves... even though i don't like Guilliman (he looks like he's wearing 1000 sons armour) i do think Abbadon i one of their best sculpts yet... its truly fantastic... I just think they look out of scale...
Am i alone in this or....
Looking forward to hearing some thoughts... i'm truly interested in what others think.
FTL
Welcome to Herohammer, take your Mary Sue.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
OP's criticism applies perfectly to Guilliman, I have said the same thing myself about that model. Abaddon however, I think is perfect. He actually looks like a big guy in 40K scale rather than a model of another scale. I think Abaddon is a perfect example of how primarch-sized models should be done, and indeed, the earlier FW primarchs are same size as him. Guilliman-size looks just silly and wrong though.
Wasn't magnus called the red gigant and could stand "face to face" with the smaller titans?
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Which I'm totally fine with if it's consistent, but why the heck did they leave the new Chaos Marines a head shorter than the Primaris? Now they just look like angry midgets.
Whilst I would have preferred the CSM to be the same size as the Primaris, they are not head shorter, they're only tiny bit shorter.
So how are these miniatures sizes to big? We as humans have giants among us and they are in sports that require muscle and size. So how is it hard to believe that in the future we cant tap into that and make super size people? We are within 100 years of us doing that right now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/03 13:38:08
Crimson wrote: OP's criticism applies perfectly to Guilliman, I have said the same thing myself about that model. Abaddon however, I think is perfect. He actually looks like a big guy in 40K scale rather than a model of another scale. I think Abaddon is a perfect example of how primarch-sized models should be done, and indeed, the earlier FW primarchs are same size as him. Guilliman-size looks just silly and wrong though.
Huh? The models are the same size [give or take perhaps a few millimeters!] and Guilliman IS a Primarch ...........
Automatically Appended Next Post: I dont get the issue with the size of the hero models. Like Guilliman, he isnt actually that big if your were to put his arms down, and take him off his base, he is about 1/3 taller than a primaris marine. This may not be exactly true to lore, but for the most part primarchs are supposed to be head and shoulders taller than normal marines.
As for greater demons and that, i think its awesome to have these huge monsters on the table, in the lore they are bloody big! So why not? brings it to life more
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/03 13:55:30
Right. So you post a pic that perfectly shows what I mean. Guilliman is much taller and has weird proportions. Also, Abaddon was rumoured to be a clone of Horus. Whilst this probably is not true, it is something that was considered plausible in-universe. Abaddon should be same size as Horus (and compared to FW model of Horus, he pretty much is.)
Abbadon = huge even for an astartes and close to but not quite primarch size, and he is always in terminator armor adding to that size.
Primarchs are to a space marine what a space marine is to a human in scale so if anything I think normal space marines are too small compared to guardsmen. possible alternative take imperial guardsmen are too big.
I'm not keen on the gigantism of either Guilliman or Abaddon. Guilliman bugs the heck out of me, and seeing Abaddon was nearly the same size. . . I was going to buy him but it's a pass for me at least until I see him in person.
I think there might be some reasonable middle ground between where we're coming from, with miniatures like THE MIGHTY AVATAR OF KHAIIIINE, and where we are now, where your force's general is typically about 3-5 times the size of your basic trooper and looks goofy as all hell next to them.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I watched a video on YouTube one time where they were able to estimate, seemingly fairly accurately, the height of the primarchs pre-heresy. They were tall, but they weren't massive by any means. I think they are approximately 8 to 12 feet tall depending on the primarch.
SG
EDIT: here is the video
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/04/03 16:44:21
40K - T'au Empire
Kill Team - T'au Empire, Death Guard
Warhammer Underworlds - Garrek’s Reavers
*** I only play for fun. I do not play competitively. ***
Kevin Hart is hardly what I'd call a "normal sized person". He's 5ft 4, which is somewhat below average. Try again.
OP has touched on one of my biggest bugbears with the HH series and possibly the biggest dumbfethery to come out of it. That being the Primarch's height. But don't you dare go mentioning this on Reddit or the downvote brigade will be upon you PDQ. No, I don't give a feth what the books say- Vulkan was not 12ft tall. It's past the point of absurdity, especially when there are 40k character's that use weapons and relics used by their Primarchs. Are we saying Vulkan He'stan's spear was used as a toothpick by his father? The Wolf Helm of Russ was a mere thimble on the mighty ham hock of the first Wolf King, where only one of his feet could fit into Stormrider.
See, the odd thing is- the Space Wolves got it right with blatant exaggeration (see, Russ and the Kraken- whose tentacles wrapped halfway around Fenris and Russ threw the tiddler back and told it to come back when it was fully grown) as you can read between the lines of inflated storytelling. But the writer's have not. They took it literally. A Primarch should be about the size of a Custode mini, not the absurd giants we have now.
I dont get the issue with the size of the hero models. Like Guilliman, he isnt actually that big if your were to put his arms down, and take him off his base, he is about 1/3 taller than a primaris marine. This may not be exactly true to lore, but for the most part primarchs are supposed to be head and shoulders taller than normal marines.
As for greater demons and that, i think its awesome to have these huge monsters on the table, in the lore they are bloody big! So why not? brings it to life more
Well that image is utterly wrong to begin with without even taking the heights into account. Calgar has 4 bionic limbs.
I think there might be some reasonable middle ground between where we're coming from, with miniatures like THE MIGHTY AVATAR OF KHAIIIINE, and where we are now, where your force's general is typically about 3-5 times the size of your basic trooper and looks goofy as all hell next to them.
That's the Epic model. Which is huge in 6mm.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/03 16:49:06
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Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Kevin Hart is hardly what I'd call a "normal sized person". He's 5ft 4, which is somewhat below average. Try again.
OP has touched on one of my biggest bugbears with the HH series and possibly the biggest dumbfethery to come out of it. That being the Primarch's height. But don't you dare go mentioning this on Reddit or the downvote brigade will be upon you PDQ. No, I don't give a feth what the books say- Vulkan was not 12ft tall. It's past the point of absurdity, especially when there are 40k character's that use weapons and relics used by their Primarchs. Are we saying Vulkan He'stan's spear was used as a toothpick by his father? The Wolf Helm of Russ was a mere thimble on the mighty ham hock of the first Wolf King, where only one of his feet could fit into Stormrider.
See, the odd thing is- the Space Wolves got it right with blatant exaggeration (see, Russ and the Kraken- whose tentacles wrapped halfway around Fenris and Russ threw the tiddler back and told it to come back when it was fully grown) as you can read between the lines of inflated storytelling. But the writer's have not. They took it literally. A Primarch should be about the size of a Custode mini, not the absurd giants we have now.
I dont get the issue with the size of the hero models. Like Guilliman, he isnt actually that big if your were to put his arms down, and take him off his base, he is about 1/3 taller than a primaris marine. This may not be exactly true to lore, but for the most part primarchs are supposed to be head and shoulders taller than normal marines.
As for greater demons and that, i think its awesome to have these huge monsters on the table, in the lore they are bloody big! So why not? brings it to life more
Well that image is utterly wrong to begin with without even taking the heights into account. Calgar has 4 bionic limbs.
I think there might be some reasonable middle ground between where we're coming from, with miniatures like THE MIGHTY AVATAR OF KHAIIIINE, and where we are now, where your force's general is typically about 3-5 times the size of your basic trooper and looks goofy as all hell next to them.
That's the Epic model. Which is huge in 6mm.
So? Its to show a point there are 3 other pictures you can look at, im not going to give pictures of tall person next to a tall person, that literally defeats the purpose of the post. OP is mad that they are tall, well we have 7-8ft tall people in real life where the world average height for males worldwide is 5'9" but many countries have a male average height of less than 5'6", so just b.c he is short doesnt mean is isnt out of the normal, he is just short compare to what you are used to seeing.
There even was an 8'11" person, that is 1/2 more than average, is that about Gman standard to Marines? I'd say so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/03 17:02:10
So how are these miniatures sizes to big? We as humans have giants among us and they are in sports that require muscle and size. So how is it hard to believe that in the future we cant tap into that and make super size people? We are within 100 years of us doing that right now.
We do have giants among us, and they often compete with pretty normal-sized people who still out play them. Steph Curry only has an inch on me and he's a great player. Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan are 6'6" and were better players than Shaq (7'1") even in a sport that selects for height. . . Because height isn't everything. Plus, once you leave basketball you get great atheletes who aren't selected for height, and their stature is much more common. 6'2" and honed athletecism is plenty impressive.
I hate GWs "the leader is the biggest". It makes sense for Orks, It makes sense for Daemon Primarchs, but thank god Farseers aren't sculpted as 10 feet tall, because it's ridiculous. I'll take my charismatic leader at more or less normal stature. I prefer my Primarchs as hyper-competemt geniuses more than being members of the WWE.
Insectum7 wrote: I'll take my charismatic leader at more or less normal stature. I prefer my Primarchs as hyper-competemt geniuses more than being members of the WWE.
WWE isn't exactly the land of the giants any more. There's some standouts like Braun Strowman, Erick Rowan, Luke Harper, Brock Lesnar, Dominik Dijak and Baron Corbin but in recent years much of the talent they've brought in is "normal" height. Guys like Otis Dozovic and Rusev are roughly 6ft tall but built like walking human fridges.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Insectum7 wrote: I'll take my charismatic leader at more or less normal stature. I prefer my Primarchs as hyper-competemt geniuses more than being members of the WWE.
WWE isn't exactly the land of the giants any more. There's some standouts like Braun Strowman, Erick Rowan, Luke Harper, Brock Lesnar, Dominik Dijak and Baron Corbin but in recent years much of the talent they've brought in is "normal" height. Guys like Otis Dozovic and Rusev are roughly 6ft tall but built like walking human fridges.
That particular statement was more about overall "branding" than explicitly stature, but fair enough. I haven't seen any wrestling in a looong time.
Insectum7 wrote: I'll take my charismatic leader at more or less normal stature. I prefer my Primarchs as hyper-competemt geniuses more than being members of the WWE.
WWE isn't exactly the land of the giants any more. There's some standouts like Braun Strowman, Erick Rowan, Luke Harper, Brock Lesnar, Dominik Dijak and Baron Corbin but in recent years much of the talent they've brought in is "normal" height. Guys like Otis Dozovic and Rusev are roughly 6ft tall but built like walking human fridges.
That particular statement was more about overall "branding" than explicitly stature, but fair enough. I haven't seen any wrestling in a looong time.
Well, it does kinda prove your point too.
WWE for years was all about the big guys, with exceptions being people like Shawn Michaels. The big guys were pushed to the moon, regardless of competence yet nowadays there are people employed by them (or on their radar) who wouldn't even have been considered a fit 10-15 years ago. There are small guys who can run rings around the bigger ones and do stuff that is just amazing. This is not even just confined to WWE, you have wrestlers like Kenny Omega, Fenix and Pentagon (who is like the single most terrifying and charismatic character anywhere, yet he's smaller than me IRL).
GW seem to have this fetish too with SMs, as I already said; I always see a Primarch to be about the size of a Custodes mini. Not the gangly things we have right now. It's like the deplorable "truescale" SMs, which almost always looked like someone had put Peter Crouch on a torture rack taken to a logical extreme.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
It’s a case of “a legendary character should be a legendary size” - sort of in line with how medieval art would enlarge the size of prominent characters so they stood out from the rest of the mooks in the scene.
I don’t think that Gulliman and the rest were meant to literally be that size in the background, and making the miniatures so big was done more so to make them stick out on a battlefield as well as be more detailed. They’re 54mm models in a 32mm game.
Also, I saw someone mention this elsewhere, and I like to imagine Guilliman is actually encased in dreadnought armor designed to look like an enlarged version of his old armor.
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
- 8k /// 
- 5k /// 
- 5k /// 
- 6k /// 
- 4k /// 
- 4k /// Cust - 3k 
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
7000 
Which is huge in 6mm. 
