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So I have a Blood Angel Army and a Nid army. U feel the Nids do better and for me are more fun to play. However, I want to start a new army and I'm not sure what to do. I'm looking for an Army or list that almost seems unfair to go against. HELP

So....are you basically asking for an army that feels OP? People will probably suggest a mix of the loyal 32 and castellan list, since that's the hot combo nowadays, but you may want to rethink your current position here. If you're chasing after army performance (which does matter to some degree), I think you'll be disappointed unless you're really into it competitively because you'll be basically hopping from list to list as things change over time. I highly suggest you decide your next army choice on something that draws you to an army, whether it be background, differing playstyle or just the models. Do your research on some of the basic stuff that makes them competitive but otherwise practice and experience are ultimately are the deciding factors once you understand the fundamentals of list building. That way even if its not exactly top tier level, you can at the very least enjoy its aesthetics or playstyle.

Eldar have always been the most consistently unfair.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eldar have always been the most consistently unfair.

While true, what units that are the broken ones shift with every edition.

Although farseers and wave serpents have been doing well for a while now.

Ok so this is kinda what I mean. Some Armies have things that tend to have more options and do a lot more damage. For example look at patriarchs Mortation vs a barbed Hierodule. The Heirodule does way less but cost more points. The only thing it has going for it is that it had a lot of wounds. Certain Armies seem to have buffs that just make them ridiculous to beat. Another example of this I feel is an Imperial knights list. I would run a knight list but thats a list I go against and I dont want to just copy that list.

I gotta go with Imperial Knights. They really give that “wait, all I have are little guys, why are your guys giant robots?” feel to a new player, while older players will grump that “super heavy” units don’t belong in 40k proper. Finally, until that Castellan is laid low, there is a unit that’s actually considered OP in the army.

Here's what you do: You look at the people you play with, their play styles & their armies/what they use. And then you build whatever would give them the most trouble.

I would recommend against that. Even craftworld eldar who are perhaps the most consistently top tier faction (only time I played that they were sorta meh was 5th and that was mostly due to having a dated codex).

That said, as someone pointed out even what is good in the Eldar codex has changed each edition. Play an army that you like the background, models, and enjoy building and painting. What list wins changes constantly (especially this edition) the above generally doesn't

Grey Knights, they're so bad it feels unfair to fight them!

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights, they're so bad it feels unfair to fight them!

Hmm.
My 2000 pt GK army manages to get out almost 200 shots in round two when the army (half of it which is on the board) manages to get enough cover in round one.
Not so bad if you ask me. The new bolter rule makes it possible.

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights, they're so bad it feels unfair to fight them!

Hmm.
My 2000 pt GK army manages to get out almost 200 shots in round two when the army (half of it which is on the board) manages to get enough cover in round one.
Not so bad if you ask me. The new bolter rule makes it possible.

Sounds like no army is black or white in terms of meta, but rather shades of grey.

Chasing the powerful armies is a dangerous game unless you're prepared to spend a lot of money keeping up to date with the meta. That said, Craftworld Eldar are pretty consistently top-tier, though even then the specific units that are good tend to change quite regularly.

I'd also ask why you want to play an "unfair" army? In my experience 40k is a game that is best played between like-minded people. It's such a poorly balanced game right now that you can very easily end up with mismatches in army power compeltely by accident. That may sound like what you want but I've found games like that to be mind-numbingly boring and if your army is vastly better than the ones you usually play against you may very well end up getting bored pretty quickly. There's nothing wrong with playing a powerful army, but unless those around you are doing the same I think you might find yourself growing bored of playing non-contests the whole time.

If you’re looking for powerful lists, you could try googling “tournament winning 40k lists” or something similar. If there are specific tournaments, like the LVO or more recent tourneys you could search for that and see what comes up.

I’ll echo the sentiments above. There’s nothing wrong with playing a powerful list, but things change and quite quickly these days with chapter approved and short edition cycles. Castellan + Loyal 32 may be good today, but next year Castellans may get a points hike. CP may be changed in terms of how you can spend them, or how they’re generated. Grey Knights May get a new Psychic Power that breaks the game... who knows?

Then you have the meta game to consider. Will you be able to consistently get games with a broken list? I like the challenge, but if you’re playing pickup games, will your opponents just play against someone else? Just something to think about.

 Nevelon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eldar have always been the most consistently unfair.

While true, what units that are the broken ones shift with every edition.

Although farseers and wave serpents have been doing well for a while now.

Yeah but they always have the majority of broken units lol

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eldar have always been the most consistently unfair.

While true, what units that are the broken ones shift with every edition.

Although farseers and wave serpents have been doing well for a while now.

Yeah but they always have the majority of broken units lol

One of the perks of any army composed of specialists. Generally, you are going to have the right tools to leverage the exploitable aspects of the current edition. That and poor internal balance usually nets us 1d3 OP broken units to spam.

But I’d hate to be a long-term meta chasing eldar player. By now, they’d probably own 3-6 of every unit in the codex.

Eldar feels the most unfair to play against.
They activate twice, move after firing, "always hitting on 3s", Jinx affecting your save rolls, and they stop your stratagems.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eldar have always been the most consistently unfair.

While true, what units that are the broken ones shift with every edition.

Although farseers and wave serpents have been doing well for a while now.

Yeah but they always have the majority of broken units lol

One of the perks of any army composed of specialists. Generally, you are going to have the right tools to leverage the exploitable aspects of the current edition. That and poor internal balance usually nets us 1d3 OP broken units to spam.

But I’d hate to be a long-term meta chasing eldar player. By now, they’d probably own 3-6 of every unit in the codex.

I'm jost joking (kinda)...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wibe wrote:
Eldar feels the most unfair to play against.
They activate twice, move after firing, "always hitting on 3s", Jinx affecting your save rolls, and they stop your stratagems.

I think GW attitude is try to make SM's upper middle tier and always make Eldar top tear and they don't care about the rest.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights, they're so bad it feels unfair to fight them!

Hmm.
My 2000 pt GK army manages to get out almost 200 shots in round two when the army (half of it which is on the board) manages to get enough cover in round one.
Not so bad if you ask me. The new bolter rule makes it possible.

Sounds like no army is black or white in terms of meta, but rather shades of grey.

Nah, Grey Knights are honestly the worst codex written. Don't listen to fux. There's not a grey area with Grey Knights and any attempt to defend that atrocity of a codex needs to be ignored or shamed.

If by unfair you mean ingnores rules then one of the elfs is the most unfair.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Knights, they're so bad it feels unfair to fight them!

Hmm.
My 2000 pt GK army manages to get out almost 200 shots in round two when the army (half of it which is on the board) manages to get enough cover in round one.
Not so bad if you ask me. The new bolter rule makes it possible.

Sounds like no army is black or white in terms of meta, but rather shades of grey.

Nah, Grey Knights are honestly the worst codex written. Don't listen to fux. There's not a grey area with Grey Knights and any attempt to defend that atrocity of a codex needs to be ignored or shamed.

Well, the codex is not the best in the 40k universe.
But theoretical statements don't help people here.

3++ Castellan just kinda skips all the normal rules, restrictions and weaknesses of other heavy support/fire power/etc.. units that exist.

Doesn't get any more "unfair" in having the cake and eating it too in 40K than the Castellan.

So... If I stick with my Nids is there any list that compete with an imperial Knight Army with a Castilian?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another example is a castellan vs the hyrophant biotitan. A catellan is around 700 points while a bio totan is 2060 how is that exactly balanced lol.

akillys wrote:
So... If I stick with my Nids is there any list that compete with an imperial Knight Army with a Castilian?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another example is a castellan vs the hyrophant biotitan. A catellan is around 700 points while a bio totan is 2060 how is that exactly balanced lol.

FW units aren't a good measuring stick to go by, not to mention super-heavies/Lords of War in general. An Ork stompa at 900 points is basically garbage compared to the Castellan, but that doesn't make Orks bad as an army. You don't need superheavies to take on superheavies. You want to optimize your army that either nullifies what a Castellan can do well (i.e. nuke high value targets) by taking mainly infantry or use stuff like Hive Guard that's out of LoS to do damage without exposing yourself. I'm not a Nid expert but there's no point in trying to beat an army's strength at their own game unless you have a mirror match basically.

akillys wrote:
So... If I stick with my Nids is there any list that compete with an imperial Knight Army with a Castilian?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another example is a castellan vs the hyrophant biotitan. A catellan is around 700 points while a bio totan is 2060 how is that exactly balanced lol.

Don't fight fire with fire against the Castellan. Lol. Take 720pts worth of Genestealers, around 3 units of 20 that is. Buff them with a Brood Lord and Venomthrope / Malanthrope. Have some Termagants and Hiveguards shoot those guardsmen screens off the table, then Rush the Knight T1. Then just Lol watching the Knight explode after your 240 attacks hitting on 2s.

Castellan is tough to deal with, But really it is not unbeatable for Tyranids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or even better is ally GSC, mind control that Castellan and make it shoot your opponent for you.

akillys wrote:
So... If I stick with my Nids is there any list that compete with an imperial Knight Army with a Castilian?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another example is a castellan vs the hyrophant biotitan. A catellan is around 700 points while a bio totan is 2060 how is that exactly balanced lol.

Emphasis mine.

akillys wrote:
...Another example is a castellan vs the hyrophant biotitan. A catellan is around 700 points while a bio totan is 2060 how is that exactly balanced lol.

Chapter Approved 2017 jumped all the proper Titans to or over 2,000pts whether or not they're worth it. The Revenant went from 1,200pts (sort of fair) to 2,000 (silly) with no actual rules changes.

If we are talking ever I'd have to say in no particular order.

Eldar in nearly every ed so far, they have always had the ability to just go full cheese
Necrons in 5th.... Dude... And 7th.
Tau "we ignore half the rulebook" of 5th and 7th fame
Guard in 8th can feel unfair but that's down to how cheap guardsman themselves are.
Heresy custodes, stupidly undercosted across the board and a contender for most broken army ever made.
Heresy mechanicum for a long while

 Formosa wrote:
If we are talking ever I'd have to say in no particular order.

Eldar in nearly every ed so far, they have always had the ability to just go full cheese
Necrons in 5th.... Dude... And 7th.
Tau "we ignore half the rulebook" of 5th and 7th fame
Guard in 8th can feel unfair but that's down to how cheap guardsman themselves are.
Heresy custodes, stupidly undercosted across the board and a contender for most broken army ever made.
Heresy mechanicum for a long while

HH Mech made most pure marine players in that community feel like they'd been kicked in the testicles. Anyone who has spent years foot slogging power armor and terminators, all of a sudden had their entire armies deleted from the board by the end of the second turn, often not ever killing a single big gribbly Ad Mech monster in the process due to the tech priest repairs and the monsters being T8 dreadnoughts ignoring most vehicle rules and melta.

Eldar in this edition seem pretty easy to handle, I've not had too much a problem with them, outside of dealing with their Reapers, though they're good, they're not invincible.

Personally I think Grey Knights get the "most unfair" tag in this edition. It's not fair for me to kick blind paraplegic puppies, leashed to fire hydrants.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

akillys wrote:
So... If I stick with my Nids is there any list that compete with an imperial Knight Army with a Castilian?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another example is a castellan vs the hyrophant biotitan. A catellan is around 700 points while a bio totan is 2060 how is that exactly balanced lol.

Don't fight fire with fire against the Castellan. Lol. Take 720pts worth of Genestealers, around 3 units of 20 that is. Buff them with a Brood Lord and Venomthrope / Malanthrope. Have some Termagants and Hiveguards shoot those guardsmen screens off the table, then Rush the Knight T1. Then just Lol watching the Knight explode after your 240 attacks hitting on 2s.

Castellan is tough to deal with, But really it is not unbeatable for Tyranids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or even better is ally GSC, mind control that Castellan and make it shoot your opponent for you.

Can you mind control the Castellan to walk off the board?
Personally I think that'd be even more entertaining than shooting with it.

Hmmm there's a thought