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Hey all

Something is confusing me about the way GW appear to do some of their models on Warhammer TV.

Taking Stormcast or Sanguinary Guard as an example. They base/undercoat with Retributor Armour. Followed by a wash of Reikland Fleshshade. Then over the top of that they seem to completely cover the Retributor Armour with Auric Armour Gold, leaving the Reikland Fleshshade in the crevices.

I can understand using base paints if that's going to be your main colour and you're just going to edge highlight it, but in this case why bother with the Retributor Armour when you're just going to cover it up completely. Why not just put the Reikland Fleshshade over the Auric Armour Gold, then tidy up the Auric Armour Gold where needed?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me.

Paint layers aren't 100% opaque. Some of the other color still shows through. Try painting on black vs on white... very different results. A solid base coat is always a good idea.

Hmm OK. I'm aware of the difference between painting on black to painting on white. Wouldn't have considered it for two very similar golds though.

So I'm guessing then that Citadel Layer paints are formulated in such a way that you cannot properly get a solid base colour with them?

Also, the wash almost always darkens and stains the base coat, besides shading the recesses. You usually need to brighten it up again after an all over wash. Layer paints are generally on the thin and non opaque side. They are not intended to be base coats; they are supposed to go over them for highlighting, or getting to a final desired color that is bright compared to a base.

Rob Lee wrote:

Taking Stormcast or Sanguinary Guard as an example. They base/undercoat with Retributor Armour. Followed by a wash of Reikland Fleshshade. Then over the top of that they seem to completely cover the Retributor Armour with Auric Armour Gold, leaving the Reikland Fleshshade in the crevices.

They probably don't 'completely cover' the Retributor Armor. This allows the painter to be somewhat sloppy, as areas missed will be a darker color that's essentially extra shading. As to why not starting with Auric Gold to begin with, not every color has a spray color, and maybe Auric Gold with Reikland Fleshshade tint isn't the desired color. Perhaps Auric Gold is more transparent and needs a stronger basecoat beneath it - it might take several layers of Auric Gold to get to the same opacity as Auric Gold over Retributor Armor.

And of course GW would rather sell you as many paints as possible, but it's not a complete cash grab every time.

I don't think GW has dastardly plans to sell more paints by suggesting layers. I know the blue carapace for my Knights is done with Vallejo paints, primer, followed by a base coat, followed by 3 different layers of blue shades. Took a lot of experimenting to figure out exactly how to get the shade I wanted, and without any of those layers it looks off... It's just a really common technique.

From Warhammer TV:

try painting Auric over a white primer and you will understand it all.

The layer paints don't cover nearly as well as the base. You're building up the coverage by starting with the base, when you don't, your layer never really gets a solid coverage. This means it'll be splotchy. Or by the time you DO get solid coverage, you've put so much paint on you've obscured details.

Yeah I can see how brushing it on without something nice and solid below it might be a problem, I found out how thin some of the layer paints can be when brushing when I used Gehenna's Gold Layer over Balthasar Gold Air on my Imperial Knight, I had streaks all over the place. I wonder then how airbrushing, for example, Auric Armour gold would go though, assuming it thins OK, if it even needs thinning, the pot of it I have does seem a bit on the "watery" side.

I recently had good success thinning Evil Sunz Scarlett Layer, although I think that was a fluke as in the past I've found thinning the current Citadel paint range a bit hit and miss. I airbrushed it over Leadbelcher Air (on a set of barrels I was doing some chipped effect on), which itself was airbrushed over bare plastic.

Both colours went down nice and smooth and solid with no detail lost..

GW's way is hardly limited to them.
Many companies sell or suggest a tri colour system or give painting guides that usually involve 3 colours.

So base colour.
Wash.
Main colour.
Highlight.
Is rather common.

Base paints have far more pigment in them and make putting on that basecoat far easier and less time consuming. You can use layer paints etc. for base layers but it takes far longer- trust me I've done it with my DG and it's a pain in the arse.

Yes, base paints do have a bit higher pigment ratio as well as they dry to a very slightly 'toothy' finish that allows top coats to stick better.

However, in one GW tutorial I saw they sprayed on the base coat as the primary color the finished model will be. I have done it this way ever since. With my airbrush I can by a small bottle of flat enamel paint in nearly any color needed that I spray on and then just hit the other areas, wash, dry brush highlight and done. I have even done bright silver and then painted the other areas right over the top - comes out great.

Also, using an enamel instead of acrylic base coat gives a much more durable coat that resists chips and nicks much better.

The good thing about the method is that it is easy to do with very limited tools - just a brush really - and limited skill. It isn't necessarily the way to the best result, the fastest to complete or the thinnest paint coat.

I personally won't buy any more paint in containers as bad as the pots GW uses, since dropper bottles are so much more useful. The quality of the paint is good, but I prefer a thinner consistency and get container, consistency and price as I prefer from other manufacturers like Vallejo.