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Besides the Beastmen of Chaos which we saw in Blackstone Fortress, I haven't seen too much on them in the 40k, especially pertaining to the regular ones just trying to survive. There's Gor Half-Horn, but while he's not aligned with Chaos, he's a mean dude as well. I'm curious, are there any known good Beastmen who just try to live their life as best as possible, or who even try to actively support the Imperium? Would you like seeing that in the fluff? I know that there were Beastmen in the Army around the time of the HH, but after, the increasing religiosity of the Imperium saw them forced out of the Army. I for one would love to see Beastmen characters who are not mercs or Chaos worshippers, and even have a few real protagonists in the fluff.
Even Imperial Beastmen have a "follow the strongest" Alpha style herd culture, so while they're "good guys", they're not exactly nice. Beastmen Auxilia units tend to be an unruly mob forced into a shock assault bullet sponge role.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/07 01:31:24
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
As per normal, those who are law abiding, hard working and keep their heads down are not interesting to read/write about. I consider them to be there working in manufactorums or as crew on various craft, they'll keep themselves to themselves and make no trouble.
The imperium is huge, there are more races than GW publish about, especially lately. Some have been squatted, but that does not mean gone, just the home world eradicated/eaten/lost to warp/destroyed. Which doesn't stop small colonies existing.
They are just mutants. Human DNA straining to far over time. You can field then as ogryns or haflings. In necromunda you can field one as a squat. Or you can kitbash some beastmenn by adding horn, tails etc. to your IG regimrnts.
Now SM recruiting from bestmenn plannet. That I would like. Has this ever happened? Perhaps they have a traditional recruitment plannet but the DNA drifted over time?
Technically, I think they are abhumans, not mutants. Mommy beastman + Daddy beastman = Baby beastman. As opposed to mutants, where Normal mommy + normal Daddy + ??? = tentacle Baby.
If you breed true, you are OK-ish. Still second class citizens like ogryn and ratlings, but don’t trigger the “purge the mutant” clause in the imperium.
I know there was the packmaster. The other mini pictured in the RT compendium looks like he might have just been swiped from WHFB. But they had rules, and fluff. Which was all you needed back then.
Nevelon wrote: Technically, I think they are abhumans, not mutants. Mommy beastman + Daddy beastman = Baby beastman. As opposed to mutants, where Normal mommy + normal Daddy + ??? = tentacle Baby.
If you breed true, you are OK-ish. Still second class citizens like ogryn and ratlings, but don’t trigger the “purge the mutant” clause in the imperium.
I know there was the packmaster. The other mini pictured in the RT compendium looks like he might have just been swiped from WHFB. But they had rules, and fluff. Which was all you needed back then.
Actually in the lore aren't there people actively working to bring the beastmen out of the abhuman race classificatin and into the mutant one?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Actually in the lore aren't there people actively working to bring the beastmen out of the abhuman race classificatin and into the mutant one?
I think I recall something about some inquisitors considering beastmen mutant, others though are happy to use them for their own use. I'd happily use them as 'loyal' abhumans, either as inquisitor retinue, rogue trader crew or IG. even centigor as rough riders.
I'd also like to hear more on other abhumans. Felinids (cat people) are a target army for me to make.
I was thinking about the whole "Beastmen are abhumans because they breed true" thing - they're a breed rather than one off abnormalities as Nevelon says.
Thing is, this makes little or no sense in 40k (In Warhammer they're all chaos, so no problem) as they can be uncorrupted, Imperial citizens.
Ogryns make (some) sense - they're big humans. So do Squat and Ratlings. That's just a matter of the human frame adapting to fit local conditions.
Heck, even Necromunda's Scalys make sense - after all hair is just adapted scales, and there's still going to be a lot of lizard in our "junk DNA" - in the right circumstances, like living in a highly polluted hellhole, regressing to have scaly skin makes sense.
But horns? Backwards facing legs with hooves? There's nothing going back the ape family tree that should have any of that, you're on a completely different branch of the class Mamelia.
Same with the cat people (restricted to one world, I believe) and I believe there are sea based abhumans, again restricted to one world.
However! Humans in 40k have had an evolutionary helping hand at least once before - the Navigators (who are definitely Abhuman, but so important that they can get away with it and have avoided the official classfication)
So, presumably at some point in the Dark Age of Technology, humanity decided that some of the planets they were colonising would be best dealt with by goat people. Maybe the only thing to eat was grass. Maybe it was really rocky.
So they engineered 'em up. And they're still about. A lot of them turn to Chaos because if the whole Imperium treats you like a Chaos worshiping mutant anyway, you might as well play the part and get some benefits.
But maybe there are whole beastman worlds, just like whole Ratling, and Ogryn worlds, where people who were genetically engineered to fit the enviroment are just getting on with life, worshiping the Emperor and sending regimental tithes, just like everyone else.
They're pretty heavily prosecuted despite being sanctioned abhumans in 40k and they're the meat shields in front of the meat shields that are the standard IG so they don't exactly live very long. A BM hero wouldn't make a lot of sense based purely on the xenophobia the Imperium has despite being human in some degree.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 08:54:01
Graphite wrote: I was thinking about the whole "Beastmen are abhumans because they breed true" thing - they're a breed rather than one off abnormalities as Nevelon says.
Thing is, this makes little or no sense in 40k (In Warhammer they're all chaos, so no problem) as they can be uncorrupted, Imperial citizens.
Ogryns make (some) sense - they're big humans. So do Squat and Ratlings. That's just a matter of the human frame adapting to fit local conditions.
Many abhumans aren't natural, but the result of deliberate genetic tampering – either in the Dark Age of Technology, the Age of Strife, or even the modern era – and so exhibit traits that aren't obvious extensions of the "normal" human form. In particular, Ogryns were originally inspired by the Titan Treatment from Judge Dredd – prisoners on the jail colony of Titan, genetically re-engineered and deformed to survive the extreme gravity. We can assume similar origins for aquatic or photosynthesizing humans.
So long as they breed true and are discovered under the right circumstances, abhumans don't need to be "natural" at all.
I was thinking about the whole "Beastmen are abhumans because they breed true" thing - they're a breed rather than one off abnormalities as Nevelon says.
Thing is, this makes little or no sense in 40k (In Warhammer they're all chaos, so no problem) as they can be uncorrupted, Imperial citizens.
Ogryns make (some) sense - they're big humans. So do Squat and Ratlings. That's just a matter of the human frame adapting to fit local conditions.
Heck, even Necromunda's Scalys make sense - after all hair is just adapted scales, and there's still going to be a lot of lizard in our "junk DNA" - in the right circumstances, like living in a highly polluted hellhole, regressing to have scaly skin makes sense.
But horns? Backwards facing legs with hooves? There's nothing going back the ape family tree that should have any of that, you're on a completely different branch of the class Mamelia.
Same with the cat people (restricted to one world, I believe) and I believe there are sea based abhumans, again restricted to one world.
However! Humans in 40k have had an evolutionary helping hand at least once before - the Navigators (who are definitely Abhuman, but so important that they can get away with it and have avoided the official classfication)
So, presumably at some point in the Dark Age of Technology, humanity decided that some of the planets they were colonising would be best dealt with by goat people. Maybe the only thing to eat was grass. Maybe it was really rocky.
So they engineered 'em up. And they're still about. A lot of them turn to Chaos because if the whole Imperium treats you like a Chaos worshiping mutant anyway, you might as well play the part and get some benefits.
But maybe there are whole beastman worlds, just like whole Ratling, and Ogryn worlds, where people who were genetically engineered to fit the enviroment are just getting on with life, worshiping the Emperor and sending regimental tithes, just like everyone else.
It is a setting where feelings acumulate to gods that wants to kill everybody in varius ways, and your critesimn of the setting is that developing hoofs or horns over 38 000 year is unrealistic. That is a bit weak in my oponion. But you can come up with what ever apolagetic you want. Genetic experimentation can have taken place (CRISPR anyone?), introduced some new genes, and forget about it. When some unification comes back to the empire after long isolation it id desided they can be usefull, just do not allow them to spread to other planets. Some years pass and rules become forgotten. Perhaps there was a secret neutor program of all soldiers leaving planet etc. Anywaything you wnat really.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
I have exactly that kind of beastmen in my fanlore, but I can't think of any official pieces.
(tl;dr: They mostly tend to themselves, waging genocidal territorial wars against each other, ignoring the humans at large, but there are "allied" tribes who cooperate and from their population, several units were raised to serve alongside the PDF/Guard much like Ogryn units, that are wholly absent. Some gave up on the everyday struggle of jungle survival and moved to human-controlled areas, where they usually grow crops. Seeing a beastman walking down the city street is still quite a rare occurrence, though.)
SOme inquisitors are trying pushing them out of abhuman to mutant zone so they could be easily exterminated (that why they tend to lean towards Chaos), but I see nothing wrong with them.
They are very likely to have a tribal mentality, like Orks, thus following the largest and strongest individual/pair. They are not the brightest kind, maybe a bit smarter (faster and less though) than Ogryns, so if you indoctrinate them properly/treat them relatively nice, I think you will get a considerable workforce or combat unit. Jobs like farming, hunting, digging or cutting wood will suit them just fine, same as heavy shock troops in combat, much like Ogryns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 06:27:11
In Warhammer the question "why do most Beastmen look so similar" was handwaved as "that's what folk in The Old World think Beastmen look like, so they do" with the note that in other areas they might be snakemen, or lion people. Which was fair enough, a bit of Pratchett's morphic resonance. Good thoughts on the CRISPR thing, and thanks for the digitigrade definition.
They would. They should have a stat-line of an Ork Boy, though.
And Graphite is right, the beastmen are goats by default because reasons (I think making n different animal species would be rather difficult), but they can be anything. I modeled mine to be cows and horses, but you can take any animal, actually. Almost literally.
DnD bestiary or... erm... the extra heretical collection of entries known as 'monster girls' might be useful. Any humanoid would.
Hawky wrote: They would. They should have a stat-line of an Ork Boy, though.
And Graphite is right, the beastmen are goats by default because reasons (I think making n different animal species would be rather difficult), but they can be anything. I modeled mine to be cows and horses, but you can take any animal, actually. Almost literally.
DnD bestiary or... erm... the extra heretical collection of entries known as 'monster girls' might be useful. Any humanoid would.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/13 12:57:38
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
The Beastman breed of abhuman is becoming increasingly common on the frontiers of the Empire, and sometimes whole planetary groups are populated by Beastmen. What they lack in intelligence, Beastmen make up in aggression and determination. They commonly have a simple but fierce devotion to the Imperial cult, fired by a desperate wish to atone for their sin of being born mutants by doing the Emperor's will on the battlefield. For Beastmen, the Emperor is portrayed as vengeful and proud, demanding tribute in the flesh and blood of his enemies. The borderline between this crude form of Emperor worship and the Chaos cult of Khorne is thin, and the Beastman's limited intellect mean that some inevitably cross over to Chaos.
"Beastman bad. Bad Beastman. Dirty. Emperor no like. Beastman love Emperor. Give Blood to Emperor. Give Heads to Emperor. Say sorry"
- Packmaster Grasht, attached to 7 Company, 14th Gratanor Regiment.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/13 15:41:33
Hawky wrote: They would. They should have a stat-line of an Ork Boy, though.
And Graphite is right, the beastmen are goats by default because reasons (I think making n different animal species would be rather difficult), but they can be anything. I modeled mine to be cows and horses, but you can take any animal, actually. Almost literally.
DnD bestiary or... erm... the extra heretical collection of entries known as 'monster girls' might be useful. Any humanoid would.
Game-wise, along with their 40k representation there was also a Beastmen unit for 6mm Epic that was part of both Imperial Guard and Chaos armies. This was in the 2nd edition Space Marine game, I believe (but not completely sure), was the last one to feature them - think they were stopped with the release of Epic 40,000 in the late 90s when they became Chaos-only.
This went along with the change in background concept of the Imperium to one that was fairly inclusive (back in RT days, as long as you were able to club the enemies of the Emperor over the head then you were on-side, and that included ork mercenaries!) - to the more modern conception, where deviation from the human norm is something to be purged. So the beastmen and squats were then no longer acceptable. and I'm surprised Ratlings and Ogryns have remained, as they don't really fit with the modern, extremely xenophobic culture that would exterminate Anne Boleyn for her funny extra little finger.
As has been said above, based purely on the modelling and imaginative opportunities that the older conception presents, I would say you can probably make an argument that there are some worlds and regiments of Imperial Guard, far from the Imperium's centre, where abhuman infantry and units are still permitted. Penal squads sounds like a good idea, or even adapt your own rules to get something more fitted (the Ork's S3 and T4 sounds like a pretty good approximation). What I will say is that the more recent direction of 40k (and surrounding games, such as Necromunda) seems to have gone back to how things were - I think this is partly a result of the more recent GW releases being 'fun first' (and bringing back some of the cool stuff from earlier editions), but it's definitely very welcome to see.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/22 18:21:17
I would take issue with the idea that most beastmen are of low intelligence and that they simply speak in simplistic phrases. First, there's the awesome quote from earlier which is quite eloquent, and then there's Gor Half-Horn who is a very proficient assassin, not a meat shield at all, and who speaks in a very understandable if gruff manner. The low intelligent beastmen found in the Guard might have been chosen specifically because of that, as they are more willing to follow orders blindly and who will rush into battle heedlessly in order to be used as little more than chaff before the main attack begins.
Tyranid Horde wrote: They're pretty heavily prosecuted despite being sanctioned abhumans in 40k and they're the meat shields in front of the meat shields that are the standard IG so they don't exactly live very long. A BM hero wouldn't make a lot of sense based purely on the xenophobia the Imperium has despite being human in some degree.
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