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Hey, I already have the list I'm building but this is pure theory crafting. I want to see if my old 6th ed list making skills are still up to snuff. Since I don't plan on playing this list, be as brutal as possible. This list is an attempt at 2nd tier tourney list that's newbie friendly. I'm not doing the obvious Tzeetch/Nurgal/Abbadon combo of stupid.

Tactics are pretty straight forward. March the marines and friends up the center in a death star, the nurglings start in their face, the Hellbrutes in the back shooting, while the termies and Khorne drop down and attack.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [46 PL, 11CP, 869pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Legion [3CP]: Red Corsairs

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: 3. Unholy Fortitude, Malefic talon, Slaanesh, Warlord

Huron Blackheart [6 PL, 105pts]: Prescience

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [14 PL, 293pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
. 17x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 67pts]: 4x Marine w/ Boltgun, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 67pts]: 4x Marine w/ Boltgun, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Combi-bolter

+ Flyer +

Heldrake [9 PL, 157pts]: Hades Autocannon, Heldrake claws, No Chaos Mark

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [39 PL, 658pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Renegade Chapters

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 112pts]: Combi-bolter, Force sword, No Chaos Mark

+ Elites +

Chaos Terminators [20 PL, 306pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Chaos Terminator Champion: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator: Chainaxe, Combi-bolter
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Chainaxe, Reaper autocannon
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Chainaxe, Reaper autocannon

Helbrute [6 PL, 120pts]: Missile launcher, No Chaos Mark, Twin lascannon

Helbrute [6 PL, 120pts]: Missile launcher, No Chaos Mark, Twin lascannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, 5CP, 473pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Chaos Undivided

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Herald of Slaanesh [4 PL, 60pts]: Delightful Agonies

Karanak [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Troops +

Bloodletters [12 PL, 235pts]: 29x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

++ Total: [111 PL, 16CP, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

You've got some interesting choices... reaper autocannons on terminators, and hades autocannon on heldrake, and 2 naked CSM squads. Might want to see if you can upgrade the heldrake to a balefire flamer, downgrade the terminators to combi-bolters(which is actually an upgrade), and see if you can upgrade the two naked CSM squads to having better weapons (lascannons or autocannons, or plasma gun)

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
You've got some interesting choices... reaper autocannons on terminators, and hades autocannon on heldrake, and 2 naked CSM squads. Might want to see if you can upgrade the heldrake to a balefire flamer, downgrade the terminators to combi-bolters(which is actually an upgrade), and see if you can upgrade the two naked CSM squads to having better weapons (lascannons or autocannons, or plasma gun)

Thank you. The autocannon on the drake was a mistake that I didn't notice. The rest I honestly didn't know. I made the squads naked just to sit and hold objectives, but arming them is good?

 charz wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
You've got some interesting choices... reaper autocannons on terminators, and hades autocannon on heldrake, and 2 naked CSM squads. Might want to see if you can upgrade the heldrake to a balefire flamer, downgrade the terminators to combi-bolters(which is actually an upgrade), and see if you can upgrade the two naked CSM squads to having better weapons (lascannons or autocannons, or plasma gun)

Thank you. The autocannon on the drake was a mistake that I didn't notice. The rest I honestly didn't know. I made the squads naked just to sit and hold objectives, but arming them is good?

There is a bit a off a debate about arming them if they are MSU. IF they get suggested to get an Heavy Weapon then generally with a reaper chaincannon, due to the rather effective nature of it.
Also there is a debate about the reaper autocannon, tendencies show though atleast in recent math that it is not really a loss in pts effectiveness if you field them and as all AC are multitools you can debate it's fieldings or not depending on how you intend to run the squad or how stuck you are with Long range AT.

The helldrake ofcourse beeing stuck with with the typicall BS 4+ makes the hades a sad choice.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Frankly nothing unexpected, still we got the closest to playable Terminators now i guess?
Also could you run for me through the numbers for a reaper autocannon for terminators? Are they worth it?

Here you go!



The big problem with the Reaper of course is that it takes a penalty to move and shoot, so I've included two versions of it. It looks like it actually holds up pretty well.

When moving, it's at about the same efficiency as a combi-bolter vs infantry, and more vs higher toughness models. Stationary it overtakes it by a decent amount. And it beats the single shot overcharge plasma vs hordes of course, even in double tap range. It'd benefit a lot from full rerolls to hit. And the extra range is nice.

I'm not sure if its really worth using overall though. Its more expensive than the combi-bolter, and you don't gain much extra per point for that due to the movement penalty. If Terminators returned to being able to ignore that, it'd be a solid take in squads except for close range combi-plasma. And even a single plasma shot is beating it vs tougher models and especially multi-wound models.

I guess if I was doing a mixed squad I might do like 2 combi-bolters, 1 reaper, and 2 combi-plasma. But I'm not convinced that we're not just better off doing all plasma to benefit more from shoot twice strat. I guess it depends on if you're also running Oblits which are gonna use that up.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1710/768010.page#10403846
See for yourself the math is beeing done by drudge, the mathlord For the full table of results.

I like this, minor proposed tweaks are:

Bolt pistols changed to chainswords. You shouldn't start a shooting phase locked in melee unless you can overwhelm the opponent. So the sword will improve your retaliation in their turn. Also makes champs profiles stick out more.

Hades autocannons switched out. Baleflamer fits the heldrakes role better imo and termies get same # of shots out of combi-bolters. The heavy vs ap tradeoff isn't fantastic imo.

Change vanguard to alpha legion. More defense for helbrutes and can move the terminators a few inches up before the game starts. This means they don't lose first turn shooting and without autocannons there is no reason not to walk them up. Bolter discipline is our friend here. Long term they still lose some distance walking but gain the ability to walk onto points that would be blocked to DS.

Give delightful agonies to the daemon prince to protect the big blob of marines.

Why is there a herald of slaanesh? The +1S is only for 'daemonettes' isn't it? She won't give locus of adv&charge in a mixed detachment.