Is this maugan ra?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Argive**

Hi guys

Bit of a poor picture. But is this a re-cast ?
Cant place it but looks wrong.

**Elbows**

I can't tell due to the quality of the picture. The metal tag on the bottom of the pack is pretty accurate to standard GW stuff of that time. In this pic the detail looks a bit soft (and they were always quite crisp details on the minis).

No idea, but metal Phoenix Lords are out of print and have been for some time, so I dunno.

PS: Did the seller have 10+ of them for sale? That's a common sign.

**Argive**

Nah just the 1. It was only £6 so I though screw it and went for it. Im a bit dubious though. Have a strong suspicion, but will see when it arrives.

**DanceOfSlaanesh**

In what way would that look like a recast? I cant see any signs?

**Ouze**

DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
In what way would that look like a recast? I cant see any signs?

Double mold lines are the usual sign.

**DanceOfSlaanesh**

The dusty base is a sign he had it a long time. If it was a recast that's more unlikely.

**Horst**

Aren't most recasts just bad resin? I thought metal models were always legit? or at least much, much harder to recast?

**Shadenuat**

Short answer - no, there are even pewter recasts.

**DanceOfSlaanesh**

Yeah, resin casting is very easy. Only need a pressure pot and compressor. I do it myself(resin cast, not recast others figures). With metal casting you need a expensive spin casting machine.

Based on the low quality picture, I cant see any signs.

But there are metal recasts out there too that's for sure.

**Overread**

metal and resin are pretty affordable to cast at home for recasting; its plastic which is basically unaffordable to do for recasting. So you always know a plastic model is fake if the one you get is in resin or metal.

That said ebay photos are typically really hard to tell if something is recast or not; blurry soft details can be as much the camera as it is the actual model.

**Ouze**

DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
Yeah, resin casting is very easy. Only need a pressure pot and compressor. I do it myself. With metal casting you need a expensive spin casting machine.

Based on the low quality picture, I cant see any signs.

With the codicil that if the signs were there, the picture isn't large or sharp enough to pick them up

But a single mini, not from russia or china, covered in dust; probably legit.

**Argive**

Thanks for the input. If its legit I got myself a steal. If not its only £6 down the drain I can use as a proxy at least I gues.. Its impossible to tell form the image but its worth a punt.

**catbarf**

Ouze wrote:
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:
In what way would that look like a recast? I cant see any signs?

Double mold lines are the usual sign.

Legitimate models can have double mold lines too, and it's more common with pewter models. Original green -> master tin creates the first set of mold lines, and then master tin -> production mold creates the second.

**Talizvar**

I can say with certainty I have been able to create simple gravity feed molds, you do not need a spin-caster but it does help.
Mind you, tapping in down or with a rope attachment and "spun" like a sling is a low-tech method as well (but ideally the force applied during the pour is the best method).
I cast some of my own kit-bashes with sculpts in the past.
All you need is to warm the mold and apply a light dusting of talc. (to break surface tension or get a "Michelin Man") and you can hit it with "low-melt-metal".
BUT that little tab is a good indication of it being legit (you usually need a lightly bigger hole to pour into), the layer of dust on the base is also a good sign as stated.

**queen_annes_revenge**

Unlikely.

**Polonius**

Phoenix lords are ancient models that were made for literally decades. They're still available, albeit in resin, not metal.

Now, complete, bare metal Phoenix lords have real value, but six pounds isn't that far off what I'd normally pay for one.

**Wyrmalla**

If its too difficult to tell if its a recast or not visually then what does it matter if its one or not?

**Argive**

Because it has value ? I would like to know in case I come to sell it on down the line. I wouldin't want anyone to buy a re-cast if I sell it as genuine.

**Wyrmalla**

Presumably you'll have painted it by then so it would be indistinguishable from the real thing? And if the fake's unmistakable from the original, then people are putting value purely on the model's authenticity over its quality.

In this case its a 20 year old model, so there's recasts out there, but I wouldn't be massively concerned with this one as it looks good enough. The quality level isn't wildly off base and it'll look the same as any other Maugan Ra figure once its painted regardless of its source.

And without it looking really weird, you'll never know. Well, unless you have the metallurgy tested, which I doubt any would be buyers down the line would be doing. You'll get people questioning if your models are recast if the light shines on them wrong.

**JohnHwangDD**

Nothing about that model is obviously a recast, but we would need a higher resolution picture with the model off its base to say for sure. Typical recasts file off the "(c) GW" on the base tag, for example. Or the detail is obviously softer than normal.

**Argive**

Ill have a look once he gets delivered.

**Argive**

So Im right in thinking its an old Dark reaper exarch rather than maugan ra?
They look almost identical I honestly cant tell but the slot clearly shows Exarch. Did they use the same sculpt??

Definitiyl not a re-cast but its interesting. I would like to know more about this particular model. Im going to keep it and use as maugan ra because I dont think anyone could tell the difference.
Im going to put so many skulls on his base that his skulls will have skulls on their skulls...

**queen_annes_revenge**

To be fair, back in the day the tabs on gw metal named character models often didn't have their name, rather their rank/title. For example I believe abaddons used to read 'chaos lord' so in all likelihood that's probably the case here.

**Ghaz**

The Phoenix Lords have had the same sculpts for nearly a quarter century...

Spoiler:

**Tikay Fortooun**

I have a feeling that this was originally an exarch. Exarchs weren’t just squad leaders 25 years ago when I was playing, they were more character type figures if I recall correctly.

**John Prins**

The surface finish on that miniature is awful. I'd say it was a recast just on that alone, or it was pulled out of a very old, worn out mold at GW, which happened.

**Ghaz**

The 'ancient' Dark Reaper Exarch:

Spoiler:

The 'old' Dark Reaper Exarch:

Spoiler:

**Shadenuat**

John Prins wrote:
The surface finish on that miniature is awful. I'd say it was a recast just on that alone, or it was pulled out of a very old, worn out mold at GW, which happened.

Nah, they're just that ugly. My pewter Warp Spiders are about the same quality and I ordered them from GW.

Something Craftworld players just have to deal with

**Aash**

Yeah, that’s definitely Maugan Ra. I used to have that model back in 2nd or 3rd edition, back when they were still using lead.

**John Prins**

Shadenuat wrote:
John Prins wrote:
The surface finish on that miniature is awful. I'd say it was a recast just on that alone, or it was pulled out of a very old, worn out mold at GW, which happened.

Nah, they're just that ugly. My pewter Warp Spiders are about the same quality and I ordered them from GW.

Something Craftworld players just have to deal with

Too bad. I got most of my old eldar metals back in the good old days of actual lead pewter. Such a difference.