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Ok guys, so I've got a load of units I've bought over the years, just because I think they look cool really, but now need some help turning into an actual functioning army!

I'm looking to build a scary as hell alpha legion gunline, the only problem is it was originally a 30k legion army, which is why there's none of the more chaosy stuff like obliterators, Daemon princes etc, and I'd like to stick to this if possible.

So far I've put together the following, but I don't feel it has much synergy;

Batt detachment

Chaos lord - thunder hammer, I am alpharius
Sorcerer with jump pack - force axe, prescience, death hex

10 cultists - autoguns
10 cultists - autoguns
10 cultists - autoguns

Contemptor dread - twin kheres
Sicaran - lascannon sponsons

Leviathan - twin butcher cannon arrays, 2 h flamers
5 havocs - all with reaper chaincannons
Scorpius

Vanguard detachment

Chaos lord in terminator armour - combi plasma, murder sword

10 terminators - all with chain axes, combi plasma
5 chosen - combi bolters
5 chosen - combi bolters

The havocs and chosen might need to use alpha legion strat to move forward at the start, and the terminators and murder sword lord deepstrike in to apply pressure where needed. They'd also have mark of slaanesh to shoot twice.

I know there's a lack of anti tank, because I also have a falchion, but it's too expensive to use in smaller games really, but if you think it's viable to squeeze one into 2k then great!

Thanks in advance, any advice on how you think this would do or improvements I can make would be great, this is my first chaos list so I'm sure there's loads I'm missing.

Thanks!

I think you're right about the Falchion. As brutal as it is you'd probably never score enough objectives if you took it plus there are still several things out there that can whittle it down too quickly for 950 points. If you wanted to squeeze it in you'd probably have to take a Dark Apostle to give it, -1 to hit.

If you're not wanting to go the daemon engines, possessed or oblitorators route this list may be not a bad option. Only thing I could think of is you would be better served with a rhino for havocs and chosen than the contemptor dread. You have plenty of anti infantry so he wouldn't be too missed and you have a better chance of keeping you shooting units safe t1.

Either that or change out the weapons for 2 cbeam cannons. If you stick it in a corner it can provide some really heavy anti tank that out ranges most other anti tank.

Thanks, those are both good options, either a couple of rhinos for the havocs and chosen, or c-beams on the contemptor.

I did consider 2 twin lascannons on the dread but c-beams would be cheaper and potentially better at longer ranges, plus there's the extra damage they can do to infantry as well, very tempting.

With demon engines, I was thinking about converting a couple of the necromunda AM-bots up to be obliterators, they look about the right size and should fit with the pre heresy look, so I'm not completely against them if they're really worth adding.

 Trashpanda wrote:
Thanks, those are both good options, either a couple of rhinos for the havocs and chosen, or c-beams on the contemptor.

I did consider 2 twin lascannons on the dread but c-beams would be cheaper and potentially better at longer ranges, plus there's the extra damage they can do to infantry as well, very tempting.

With demon engines, I was thinking about converting a couple of the necromunda AM-bots up to be obliterators, they look about the right size and should fit with the pre heresy look, so I'm not completely against them if they're really worth adding.

I think the Ambots would look great with this less daemonic aesthetic!

With the list I suppose it depends what sort of rules, terrain and opponents you'll be playing. If you play on crowded boards with lost of line of sight blocking terrain or played itc terrain rules, tgen you could have just more havocs or a couple of oblits or whatever.

If it's sparse terrain and your likely to face knights/mechanised units a lot then the double c beam contemptor is pretty tasty. You can pretty reliably take out flyers of backfield armour with it!

We play with quite a fair bit of terrain but only LOS blocking if you can't see the target at all, otherwise it's just a normal cover save.

Also don't generally play ITC unless someone has a tourney coming up they'd like practice for.

We've got a variety of different stuff between us but I do see knights a fair bit, different flavours of marines, guard tanks, tau, custodes jetbikes so yeah, quite a lot of armour!

We play casual but the lists are competitive, which is why I'm looking for any advice I can get really

In that case I think double c beam would work well if you have enough LoS blocking to hide the havocs t1.

If you're short on points you can swap out the thunder hammer on the captain and swap for a chainsword and give him the blade of the hydra for one CP. It's almost as good against armour and it's much much better against t6 or less stuff (which is generally the stuff that will be charging your gunline).

Yeh I'm liking the double c-beams load out, I always dismissed it because you can't move and shoot at all, but in this list he can just stay back in cover and make the most of the -1 to hit.

I did consider giving the lord the hydra blade, I only with a t-hammer because he can take one now, plus I'm using the dynat model, which actually has one, but you're probably right, he's only really there for the re-rolls anyway.

So I updated the list and put a couple of rhinos in to protect the havocs and chosen, had to take out the Scorpius though. Also took the jump pack off the sorcerer, he can jump in a rhino, and took the murder sword off the terminator lord to save CP's..

Batt detachment

Lord - blade of the hydra, I am alpharius
Sorcerer - force axe (no jump pack, he can ride in a rhino)

10 cultists - autoguns
10 cultists - autoguns
10 cultists - autoguns

Sicaran - autocannon, lascannon sponsons
Contemptor - 2 cbeam cannons

Leviathan - 2 butcher cannon arrays, 2 h flamers
5 havocs - 4 reaper chaincannons

2 rhinos - combi bolters

Vanguard detachment

Lord in terminator armour - combi plas, power sword

10 terminators - combi plas, power axes
5 chosen - combi bolters
5 chosen - combi bolters


That leaves me with about 65pts to spare. The rhinos will help protect the chosen and havocs and also get them within range without using the alpha legion strat.

Still think I'm light on anti- tank without the falchion though. The terminators will have to pull their weight, will have to be really careful when and where I drop them down.

Does that look better?

Yeah looks good. Agree on murder sword as good as it is it's super situational.

Those termies with vertrans, prescience and endless Cacophony should shred almost anything when overcharged. They'll kill a 4++ knight a turn on adverage.

With 65 points you could add in a couple more combi bolter chosen. Or upgrade one squad to plasma? That would be a unit that could do the above t1 after hopping out of rhino and moving up the board.

Yeh that's the plan, endless cacophony plus VotLW plus re-rolls from the terminator lord in case of any ones, plus prescience if I can get it off.

They should hopefully take down something nasty and if they survive the retaliation can slowly eat through as much stuff as possible, just have to make sure I clear a nice space for them to DS into.

Combi plasmas sounds good on the chosen, or...

If i drop 1 terminator and swap the sicaran for the Scorpius ( or a venator) I could add an exalted champ and a spearhead detachment, for an extra CP.

I like the general idea of what you got. The levi will often carry your list I think.

I'm personally not a fan of c-beams. I think its because such a badass dread shouldn't be immobile. But also because contemptors are just solid all round particulalry with new access to las. I've run my twin AL contemptors with various loadouts but I prefer to take TLC/dccw and escort my rhinos. Move 9" is pretty fast on a mixed dread. Makes for harder target decisions and their higher accuracy allows them to move and fire. Double soulburners ain't bad either at times.

On the jump lord consider that elixir makes him into 5 x s10 hammer attacks.. since you got the model and the extra points. Hydra blade is a great choice too and cheaper but I find the hammer better if you can spare the points. That said a hydra lord with full mods is rowdy.

Now the more controversial stuff..

I suggest losing the sicaran. Its not the beast it once was. I'd prefer the scorpius but you aren't playing ITC so its not as good either although still good. Instead If you have the model run another contemptor both with TLC. And fit some las havocs. Now you have a respectable amount of anti tank including targets for turn 1 EC with the termies being your turn 2 if you choose to DS them.

The other thing that really stands out to me are the chosen. At least give them chainaxes. But I'd prefer zerks here.. possibly along with the ex champ you mentioned. Just depending on where the list goes.

Lastly why power axes on those termies? Chainaxes save pts and will suite their purpose fine. In their place add a PF to the champ. Oh and a JP back onto the sorc. Just too useful with his range which would also enable him to support those termies. I'd also suggest leaving death hex as the alternative choice via chaos familiar.

If you go with some or all of the above then the TDA lord is much less needed meaning you can instead take a ex champ to support those chosen/zerks whatever. If you do keep the chosen consider making them a little more threatening. Such as: 1 reaper cc, 1 hammer, 5 cbbolters, 2 bolters, 7 chainaxes. Now they function near-to a zerk unit but shoot very respectably. Or just 5 chosen- reaper, 4 cbbolters.

Edit- oh and one other thing to consider, you will find one large squad of cultists to be much more useful. Not just for tides but also to push back early assaults by maximizing fwd ops value for board control.

Anyway just some ideas.

Cheers, those are all good points and some things I didn't consider as well!

I'm not sold on the sicaran either but unfortunately don't have another dread (ATM anyway!).

The power axes on the terminators is just because they come with them, I'm using the forgeworld lerneans and the models are too nice to change!

I get your point though, it's extra points I could definitely use better.

I'll tweak some things and post up an updated list.

I'm on leraeans too but no one here cares if their badass power axes are really chainaxes. Hell the fw space wolf termies have chainaxes but fw calls them frost axes.

I'm warming to your chosen units btw. If equipped with a chain reaper and maybe chainaxes. Cheaper than havocs but still effective at removing screens and they have ablatives. Alternately you could just make those into chain havocs.

I'm also thinking the sicaran is functional, since you don't have a replacement. It's what the predator AC should have been so I guess really it's paying 30 pts for 3 more wounds and a hvy bolter. That's not unplayable in a friendly environment.

Ok so I've tweaked a few things and come up with this...

Battalion detachment

Lord - blade of the hydra, I am alpharius
Sorcerer - jump pack, force axe, prescience, death hex

3x10 cultists

Vanguard detachment

Lord in terminator armour - power sword

10 terminators - combi plasma, chain axes
Contemptor dread - 2 c-beams
8 chosen - 4 combi bolters, 1 reaper chaincannon, 2 chain axes, champ with combi bolter and power fist

2 rhinos

Spearhead detachment

Exalted champ - power sword

5 havocs - reaper chaincannons
5 havocs - lascannons
Leviathan dread - 2 butcher cannons

That leaves me about 40pts to play with.

I've lost a few chaff clearing shots from not having 2x5 chosen with combi bolters, but I've got an extra chaincannon and 4 lascannons.

I've kept the hydra blade on the lord for now, his main role is just to give re-rolls to the shoooty stuff. Having said that, I would like to try the murder sword on the exalted champ at some point, so will probably swap things around and see what works best.

The chosen and exalted champ can jump in 1 rhino, all the havocs in the other.

Kept the terminator lord, just because I don't trust psychic powers, if I fail to get prescience then overwatching the terminatos without re-rolls is risky!

Also kept the c-beams on the contemptor for now, would like to try them out first, can always switch back to a different load out if they're not really working.

Looks good to me. Good mix of threats, damage and durability. Let us know how you get on with the list!

Cheers, I will do.

Just a quick question regarding marks, I'm thinking MoS on any shooty infantry, so havocs, terminators, chosen.

And MoK on all the characters, except sorcerer who can have MoT.

Does that sound about right? It's all the chaosy stuff I'm new to!

 Trashpanda wrote:
Cheers, I will do.

Just a quick question regarding marks, I'm thinking MoS on any shooty infantry, so havocs, terminators, chosen.

And MoK on all the characters, except sorcerer who can have MoT.

Does that sound about right? It's all the chaosy stuff I'm new to!

Yeah the MoS and MoK is all correct. I usually decide what mark I give to my sorcerer and other units depending on what I'm facing generally to protect the leviathan (although contemptor could also be good target). If I'm facing things that -1 to hit hurts I generally take mark of nurgle for miasma so tau really don't like -2 to hit. If I'm facing a mele horde with big ap weapons then I go tzeentch, like abberants or knights for weaver of fates.

Although to be fair I normally play with 2 sorcerers or ahriman and friends so I have pleanty of access to spells.

Great thanks, well now I just need to get a couple rhinos and a few bits and should be good to go!