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My current list is built off of the Dark Vengeance and Dark Imperium box sets with a couple extras added in.

I'm looking for advice on where to go next with my list. Even if it means focusing down on 1500 points or less (or building up to 2k)

I'm finding that the dreadnought and terminators haven't been very useful (maybe I'm using them wrong) and that the tactical marines don't seem to offer very much.

My current thinking on what to do is:

Another 5 Hellblasters
Azrael
Darkshroud
Replace tactical marines with scouts
Look into Sammael and black knights


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [78 PL, 8CP, 1,304pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Use Beta Rules

+ HQ +

Librarian [7 PL, 96pts]: 2) Aversion, 3) Righteous Repugnance, Bolt pistol, Force sword

Master [5 PL, 86pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Relic blade

Primaris Lieutenants [10 PL, 148pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Master-crafted auto bolt rifle
. Primaris Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Power sword

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant
. Bolt rifles

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant
. Bolt rifles

Tactical Squad [9 PL, 157pts]: 7x Space Marine
. Heavy Weapon Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Special Weapon Marine: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [9 PL, 157pts]: 7x Space Marine
. Heavy Weapon Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Special Weapon Marine: Plasma gun

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 135pts]: 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant
. Assault Bolters: Assault bolter

Ravenwing Bike Squad [5 PL, 80pts]
. Ravenwing Biker: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Biker: Bolt pistol
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun
. Ravenwing Sergeant: Chainsword
. . Space Marine bike: Twin boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: 4x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol
. Plasma incinerators

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [5 PL, 110pts]: Twin lascannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [32 PL, 1CP, 526pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ +

Master in Gravis Armour [7 PL, 118pts]: Boltstorm gauntlet, Master-crafted power sword

+ Elites +

Deathwing Terminators [13 PL, 187pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Storm Bolter & Power Sword
. Deathwing Terminator: Power fist, Storm bolter
. Deathwing Terminator: Power fist, Storm bolter
. Deathwing Terminator: Chainfist, Storm bolter
. Deathwing Terminator: Assault cannon, Power fist

Primaris Ancient [4 PL, 69pts]

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 152pts]: Twin lascannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

Created with BattleScribe

I don't know too much about dark angels, but i do know that your codex has the best plasma usage (through your chapter tactic and strategems) giving you the best hellblasters so if you like those, more can never hurt. Being a vanilla marine player, i can say i am very jealous of your deathwing knights. My assault termies kitted with thunder hammer/storm shields are not only more expensive than your mace/shield dudes but they are less accurate with our minus 1 to hit. The only thing your giving up is 1 ap value but imo its very worth it. Plus the models are awesome. i wish i could be more help but there's my two cents.

I would drop a tac squad and replace another with scout snipers. Have them camp objectives and harass characters.

Also I would go all primaris with the librarian and captain instead of the regular versions. The extra wounds you get is so much cheaper than it should be. Going gunline also means you don't need transports.

For the Bike i'd go flamer as well. You can zip up and harrass infantry first turn.

I don't understand the Razor back, the only melee you have are terminators and the dreadnaught, while the rest can just stumble along.

For the dreadnaught I'd recommend dropping his fist and putting a missile launcher on it, the mixture of ranged and melee always hurts.

I don't know anything about the gravis armor or your terminators so I can't help you there.

I feel like you're suffering from what most players and specifically Dark Angel players suffer from.

You're lacking focus in what you want to play.

Dark Angels have the unique ability as Space Marines to be 3 different style armies in 1 Codex. While all 3 sound like the compliment each other, it doesn't really translate into the table top as well as some people think.

If you're newer to the game I would recommend focusing on the greenwing, which is the Dark Angel gunline, and what you have the most of and would be able to easily build on. Figure out what works in your local gaming meta and make that your base army. After that, you can worry about Deathwing and Ravenwing. As a Dark Angel player plasma is your friend. I would recommend the Hellblasters.

Also use the Master from Dark Vengeance as Azrael. They have the same loadout on model. Also one last tip, don't spend points on the Relic blade, the cost doesn't translate well to the damage it does on the field.

EDIT: All the Dark Vengeance HQs can be used as their named HQ counterparts. They bear an uncanny resemblance to the named, and have eerily similar loadouts. Almost as if DA almost got a model upgrade in 7th for our named HQs.

Thanks guys!

I honestly never considered running the Dark Vengeance HQs I have as Azrael and Ezekiel. That opens up some options

My local gaming store is mostly people that seem to really only come out to play for tournaments unless I specifically ask for people to come out.

I think what I'll do is fill up my Hellblaster squad to the max, take Azrael and Ezekiel as my HQs, and look to add a Darkshroud. I'll also replace at least one squad of tacticals with scouts probably with bolters.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 charz wrote:
I would drop a tac squad and replace another with scout snipers. Have them camp objectives and harass characters.

Also I would go all primaris with the librarian and captain instead of the regular versions. The extra wounds you get is so much cheaper than it should be. Going gunline also means you don't need transports.

For the Bike i'd go flamer as well. You can zip up and harrass infantry first turn.

I don't understand the Razor back, the only melee you have are terminators and the dreadnaught, while the rest can just stumble along.

For the dreadnaught I'd recommend dropping his fist and putting a missile launcher on it, the mixture of ranged and melee always hurts.

I don't know anything about the gravis armor or your terminators so I can't help you there.

The razorback was so I could have a little extra long ranged anti-vehicle, not necessarily as a transport.

I don't have the bitsto run the venerable dreadnought with a missile launcher unfortunately. Perhaps if my opponent doesn't mind me not playing WYSIWYG.

I run the Azrael Castle with Azrael, 10 Hellblasters and a Primaris Lieutenant. With "Weapons of the Dark Age", the re-rolls and Azraels ability to recycle a command point on a roll of 5 or 6, I can usually delete a unit per turn. I have a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with twin las-cannons as my other anti-tank. I do run Ravenwing bikers with a Talon Master for fast attack and objective gathering...and I just added a Dark Talon (Hysterical laughter)

 Freeflow44 wrote:
I run the Azrael Castle with Azrael, 10 Hellblasters and a Primaris Lieutenant. With "Weapons of the Dark", the re-rolls and Azraels ability to recycle a command point on a roll of 5 or 6, I can usually delete a unit per turn. I have a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with twin las-cannons as my other anti-tank. I do run Ravenwing bikers with a Talon Master for fast attack and objective gathering...and I just added a Dark Talon (Hysterical laughter)

I haven't really looked at any forgeworld models yet, they seem pretty expensive

The two bread and butter we have currently for DA is:

[Azrael + Hellblaster + Dark Shroud] and [Sammael (Corvex) + Talonmaster + Black Knights + Dark Shroud]
These are the two best recipients for WFTDA, one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) stratagem we have at our arsenal.
I personally run the latter due to the supporting HQ's actually being able to pull some weight themselves instead of existing just to provide buffs.

Honorable mentions go to:

[Dark Talon x 3]
Tried and true cheese of DA, especially more viable in CA 2018 missions w/ Acceptable Casualties rule.

[Int Chap on Bike + Librarian on Bike w/ + Eye of the Unseen + Reivers w/ Grav Chute + Mind Wipe]
Really involved combo, providing stacked -3 Ld to help ensure Mind Wipe goes off but can make a fool of +500pt lynchpin units. This is more for giggles than actual competitiveness.

Slaul wrote:

 Freeflow44 wrote:
I run the Azrael Castle with Azrael, 10 Hellblasters and a Primaris Lieutenant. With "Weapons of the Dark", the re-rolls and Azraels ability to recycle a command point on a roll of 5 or 6, I can usually delete a unit per turn. I have a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with twin las-cannons as my other anti-tank. I do run Ravenwing bikers with a Talon Master for fast attack and objective gathering...and I just added a Dark Talon (Hysterical laughter)

I haven't really looked at any forgeworld models yet, they seem pretty expensive

It was expensive, but he does some work

 Freeflow44 wrote:

Slaul wrote:

 Freeflow44 wrote:
I run the Azrael Castle with Azrael, 10 Hellblasters and a Primaris Lieutenant. With "Weapons of the Dark", the re-rolls and Azraels ability to recycle a command point on a roll of 5 or 6, I can usually delete a unit per turn. I have a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with twin las-cannons as my other anti-tank. I do run Ravenwing bikers with a Talon Master for fast attack and objective gathering...and I just added a Dark Talon (Hysterical laughter)

I haven't really looked at any forgeworld models yet, they seem pretty expensive

It was expensive, but he does some work

That looks awesome! Very nicely painted!

Slaul wrote:

 Freeflow44 wrote:

Slaul wrote:

 Freeflow44 wrote:
I run the Azrael Castle with Azrael, 10 Hellblasters and a Primaris Lieutenant. With "Weapons of the Dark", the re-rolls and Azraels ability to recycle a command point on a roll of 5 or 6, I can usually delete a unit per turn. I have a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with twin las-cannons as my other anti-tank. I do run Ravenwing bikers with a Talon Master for fast attack and objective gathering...and I just added a Dark Talon (Hysterical laughter)

I haven't really looked at any forgeworld models yet, they seem pretty expensive

It was expensive, but he does some work

Thanks, he certainly is an attention getter on the table...might be all the lascannons...and the invuln save...or the feel no pain

That looks awesome! Very nicely painted!

The most efficient DA armies i have played against all used the hellblaster bomb.

Darkshroud, azrael, ancient wit relic banner, LT, lots of hellblasters and scouts to screen. Maybe invest in the flyer for more flavor.

I feel like you're suffering from what most players and specifically Dark Angel players suffer from.

You're lacking focus in what you want to play.

Dark Angels have the unique ability as Space Marines to be 3 different style armies in 1 Codex. While all 3 sound like the compliment each other, it doesn't really translate into the table top as well as some people think.

For now, keep this in the back of your mind, but ignore it. Play with all three. Use this time to figure out which of the three wings you like - and how much. Then fill out your list with making that part bigger and more effective first. Then fill out the part you like second most. Finally fill out the third part (assuming you like it at all). I've been playing off an on for a while now, - I started as Ultramarines, and I think I have the entire second company. Some of it isn't built and painted yet - I'm missing an assault squad I think - about half or more of the first company between terminators, Sternguard and Vanguard, a few Scout Squads, plus a wide assortment of vehicle support - Dreads, land speeders, land raiders, predators/Rhinos/Razorbacks, Drop Pods plus a whirlwind, Vindicator and a trio of Thunderfire Cannons. I haven't been limited in army choice for quite some time. I can frequently change up the list as I get a "craving" for something different but still Marines. A few editions ago, I made a combi-wing list when Belial and Sammael both made their wings "troop" choices with Objective Secured.

Even if you go greenwing gunline, I can really advise trying sammy (sableclaw) and/or the talonmaster. Even with their reduced buffs on greenwing, they still give reroll 1s for hit- and wound-rolls, on top of both firing 18 shots each AND beeing able to do some melee. Also, they're characters with less than 10 wounds, and thus cant be targeted

Those two models never disappoint me.

Thanks all, I appreciate the advice!

Been awhile... DAaddict (dark angels addict) means I have to comment.

I concur that the Green wing is the place to start. There are two DA only command point monsters:

The one that allows you to buff the plasma damage by one.
The one that allows terminators to drop and shoot twice. Albeit that is costly and works best with a 10 man terminator squad...

You are best if stationary and work with hellblasters and devastators with plasma cannons.
Best to pack them in tight with Azrael for the invulnerable.
Add a company ancient so you can re-roll 50-50 with anyone that dies.
Add an apothecary so you can resurrect the hellblaster or plasma cannon that kills himself.
Add a lieutenant to reroll 1s to wound.

Seeing everyone has to be within a 6" bubble, start with 10 hellblasters and two 5 man plasma cannon devs.

For troops I would stick with scouts so it is cheap.
Use scouts to enlarge your bubble wrap your army.

If you have points left go with executioners or a charge shield of intercessors or reavers for flexibility.

Options that are good are a dark shroud or a librarian. Also you have good anti-tank but you will suffer from mass plasma shooting, So I would recommend raven wing hit teams - 3 bikes w 2 meltas
and sgt with combi-melta. Also attack bikes with multi-meltas.

Vehicles and dreadnoughts are no-nos with single vehicles. My general rule is 2 or 3 or leave them at home because one is not enough to block line-of-sight and blowing up is a danger. If you want to, 3 razorbacks can cover your gunline on the opening turn and move out of the way so you can shoot him up. The alternative is to run 3 5-man tacticals with sgt with plasma-pistol and plasma gun or cannon instead of the two devastators. Not taking cost, 8 plasma cannons versus 6 plasma and 6 lascannons.

I hope helps.

10 Deathwing Terminators deep striking in Turn 2. Double Assault Cannons. Use Deathwing Assault Strategem. This lets you shoot as you teleport in at the end of the movement phase and then again in the shooting phase.

Combined that's 64 Storm Bolter shots and 24 Assault Cannon shots. If Belial is with them they are rerolling all misses.

It's really the only way to use our shooty Terminators to good use. As far as Deathwing Knights are concerned they are rather good in close combat and draw a hell of a lot of attention to them. If nothing else they are a useful distraction.

Run the terminators with 2 Missile Launchers then you get to keep the stormbolters. So 80 S4 bolter shots plus either 4d6 S4 Frags or 4 S8 Kraks.

The other option is to run 3 or 4 storm shields and thunder hammers. Trades off bolter shots for invulnerable 3+ saves as well as T5 for the squad.

Also add the little guy for the one-time deny the witch.